2008: The Year Broadband Over Powerline Died BPL-poster-child project taken over by city of Manassas, may be shut down... Thursday Oct 16 2008 14:14 EDT Manassas, Virginia was the first US city to see a real, non-trial launch of broadband over powerline (BPL) technology. However, BPL has floundered the last few years because of its inherent potential for interference with amateur and emergency radio, its irrelevance in the face of next-generation speeds, and the unavoidable fact that many utilities simply didn't want to be broadband providers. Manassas was a particular hotbed of interference debate, with enthusiasts complaining the FCC (who for years cheerleaded the technology a little too enthusiastically) didn't properly test the network and used bogus data to make the case for BPL. The FCC's dream technology, embraced in the hopes it would help them obfuscate the fact their policies have created an uncompetitive duopoly, hasn't been faring well. Last May, a flagship BPL trial in Dallas operated by DirecTV and Current Communications was sold to the local utility. The network DirecTV and Current Communications had hoped would offer BPL service to 2 million residents -- is now being used for smart-electrical grid monitoring. After five-plus years of the BPL industry insisting each year would be "the year of BPL," it looks like 2008 may be known as the year that BPL died. It's estimated the technology never saw more than roughly 5,000 subscribers, most of them trial participants. Comtek, the company who originally built the Manassas network, has read the tea leaves and begun focusing on smart electric grid technology like Current Communications. Comtek was somewhat obnoxious when it came to complaints from ham enthusiasts in Manassas, claiming that interference didn't exist, and that ham groups like the ARRL were engaged in a "campaign to turn back the clock on broadband in the United States." These days Comtek wants no part in the network it hyped for years, and the city has taken control of the network: quote: ComTek was supposed to sell the technology — used to provide basic Internet capabilities to residents and businesses — to Smart Grid LLC. However, the deal fell through this year. Instead of axing the program right away, the council decided to keep the service for the roughly 675 customers until April, when it will be on the budget cutting room floor for fiscal 2010.
In other words, another network that was supposed to be a shining example of broadband over powerline's promise is likely going to be shelved. The city may potentially keep the network operational to monitor the city's electric grid, but says the technology simply isn't viable as a major broadband option. That's something we've been saying for going on half a decade, though many didn't want to hear it. |
DrStrangeTechnically feasible Premium Member join:2001-07-23 Bristol, CT |
So long, see ya later, bye!Good riddance to bad rubbish. Given the potential for interference to MF and HF radio, this technology should never have seen the light of day in its present form. | |
| | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ
1 recommendation |
FFH5
Premium Member
2008-Oct-16 2:09 pm
Re: So long, see ya later, bye!said by DrStrange:Good riddance to bad rubbish. Given the potential for interference to MF and HF radio, this technology should never have seen the light of day in its present form. Well the FCC hasn't learned its lesson yet. They pushed BPL despite all the interference complaints and now they are doing the same with the unlicensed white space device push. | |
| | | en102Canadian, eh? join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA |
en102
Member
2008-Oct-16 2:14 pm
Re: So long, see ya later, bye!I like the 'home' version of BPL - HomePlug works VERY well. I prefer it to WiFi G for latency, stability and range. I've been using HDX101 for over a year with very few issues. The only time there's an issue - its when someone is running the hair dryer or vacuum on the same circuit (high load). | |
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to FFH5
said by FFH5:Well the FCC hasn't learned its lesson yet. They pushed BPL despite all the interference complaints and now they are doing the same with the unlicensed white space device push. well, BPL was always a construct of the FCC to fool congress into thinking there was competition. now that it's impossible to deny broadband in the U.S. is anything but competitive and even congress can't be fooled about it BPL has died. the interference was real and well documented in ACTUAL FIELD MEASUREMENTS OF A DEPLOYED SYSTEM. on the other hand, whites spaces utilization is pushed by consumer friendly companies that want to provide another broadband option and bring REAL competition. NAB and incumbents are screaming about POTENTIAL interference and insisting white space utilization be shut down. initial FIELD trials of prototype equipment seemed to show interference but in reality was the result of faulty FIELD TEST equipment. subsequent re-test shows the equipment works and it looks like the FCC will approve. the only thing I don't understand is why Martin isn't killing this. in fewer words: BPL: fake, hyped solution; consumers against, business for white spaces: real solution, consumers for, business (incumbents and NAB) against | |
| | | | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2008-Oct-16 3:27 pm
Re: So long, see ya later, bye!said by nasadude:said by FFH5:Well the FCC hasn't learned its lesson yet. They pushed BPL despite all the interference complaints and now they are doing the same with the unlicensed white space device push. initial FIELD trials of prototype equipment seemed to show interference but in reality was the result of faulty FIELD TEST equipment. subsequent re-test shows the equipment works and it looks like the FCC will approve. The FCC White Space report just released lists all kinds of interference issues. It is just that the backers of white space devices have co-opted Martin to ignore the problems. So, it is no different than the BPL problems. It is just that the backers of White Space devices have more political clout with the FCC than the electric companies pushing BPL had. | |
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Re: So long, see ya later, bye!said by FFH5: The FCC White Space report just released lists all kinds of interference issues. It is just that the backers of white space devices have co-opted Martin to ignore the problems. So, it is no different than the BPL problems. It is just that the backers of White Space devices have more political clout with the FCC than the electric companies pushing BPL had. The electric companies NEVER pushed BPL. Most of them didn't want to have anything to do with broadband and were only interested in the "reading the meters remotely" aspect. The few that did get involved did so reluctantly and don't seem bothered at all that BPL never went anywhere. BPL got a BIG push under Powell and Martin kept the ball rolling. as far as political clout, it's pretty amusing that you believe NAB and ATT are lacking in that area. I haven't read the report, but if there are "all kinds of interference issues", then why is Martin saying this will get approved? Maybe he doesn't like NAB because of the indecency stuff, although he is pretty much on board with allowing companies to own as many radio and tv stations as they want. | |
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| | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2 Zoom 5341J
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KrK to FFH5
Premium Member
2008-Oct-17 1:40 am
to FFH5
said by FFH5:Well the FCC hasn't learned its lesson yet. They pushed BPL despite all the interference complaints and now they are doing the same with the unlicensed white space device push. My Theory is interference from BPL was a threat to White-Space spectrum | |
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| Subaru1-3-2-4 Premium Member join:2001-05-31 Greenwich, CT |
to DrStrange
yes! don't have to hear this anymore I don't know why its taken this long to die.. it was pretty much dead before it ever started | |
| | N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano Premium Member join:2003-11-11 Philly burbs |
to DrStrange
hiphip HOORAY!
hiphip HOORAY!
hiphip HOORAY! | |
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powerline
Anon
2008-Oct-16 2:45 pm
HomePlug did NOT work well for meI bought 2 Powerline adapters for my 2 story condo and there were problems. I returned the devices for a wireless D Link Router and problems are gone. Here were the problems:
1. I could not get my devices recognize each other, thus no "network" was created. It was NOT simple to reset the devices. Per the directions, you had to simu.taneously press the reset button on each device at the same time while plugged into an outlet. You can not plug these suckers into a surge protector because of interference. Thus, you need to have have 2 persons reset the devices.
2. My devices used/required Microsoft .net framework 1.1 When you upgrade microsoft's .net framework to the latest version or install a critical patch to .net framework, it breaks the utility which monitors your network, change settings, passwords, etc. | |
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Re: HomePlug did NOT work well for mesaid by powerline :
I bought 2 Powerline adapters for my 2 story condo and there were problems. I returned the devices for a wireless D Link Router and problems are gone. Here were the problems:
1. I could not get my devices recognize each other, thus no "network" was created. It was NOT simple to reset the devices. Per the directions, you had to simu.taneously press the reset button on each device at the same time while plugged into an outlet. You can not plug these suckers into a surge protector because of interference. Thus, you need to have have 2 persons reset the devices. AFAIK the 2 devices must be on the same phase, or better, on the same circuit. They can't go across transformers, not sure about power meters. | |
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powerline to powerline
Anon
2008-Oct-18 6:27 pm
to powerline
HomePlug did NOT work well for me
I bought 2 Powerline adapters for my 2 story condo and there were problems. I returned the devices for a wireless D Link Router and problems are gone. Here were the problems:
1. I could not get my devices recognize each other, thus no "network" was created. It was NOT simple to reset the devices. Per the directions, you had to simu.taneously press the reset button on each device at the same time while plugged into an outlet. You can not plug these suckers into a surge protector because of interference. Thus, you need to have have 2 persons reset the devices.
2. My devices used/required Microsoft .net framework 1.1 When you upgrade microsoft's .net framework to the latest version or install a critical patch to .net framework, it breaks the utility which monitors your network, change settings, passwords, etc. | |
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MalibuMaxx Premium Member join:2007-02-06 Chesterton, IN |
Power line???I thought it was broadband over power lineS... Whoops my bad this story has it right because thats how many power lines carried broadband... LMAO
So I guess the title fits! | |
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This was pushed as broadband to the everyoneThat's why it was continually pushed forward. Some people are obsessed with the idea that connecting everyone to the internet at high speeds will some how make them all smarter, richer people.
Same as everyone needs a house and everyone needs a college education. The Govt just keep pushing these ideas. In the end it always fails because the Govt simply has no mind for business. | |
| burner50Proud Union THUG Premium Member join:2002-06-05 Iowa |
burner50
Premium Member
2008-Oct-16 3:19 pm
YAAAAY!!!Good Riddance... | |
| TJ_in_IL join:2006-06-10 Winthrop Harbor, IL |
NYS Pushing BPL`My father recently (last week) asked me about BPL, since they are pushing it in New York State, in the upper tier. He sent me some links to some info, I will have to dig up and share the links. I checked them out, and their website was very hokey... no real information, so service areas, etc. I e-mailed them with specific questions, and was replied too with a canned "visit our website for more information". If BPL is truely dead, good for them, they deserve it.
TJ | |
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Current Communications in CincinnatiI am presently a current communications subscriber in cincinnati, ohio and I love the service. I find it very unfortunate that it is dieing, because the company is stellar in my experience. I get 3mbit synchronous and lower pings than my DSL/cable neighbors. If the network were to go down I would be only left with time warner, since cinci bell is terrible on my block. | |
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BPLAnd they said BPL wouldn't even last a year!! We sure showed them! | |
| Mactronel Camino Real Premium Member join:2001-12-16 PRK |
Mactron
Premium Member
2008-Oct-16 8:37 pm
No chance of deliveringGood bye and good riddance. For those folks who mistakenly thought it would bring BB to the boondocks. There was never a chance of ever delivering, Sorry. | |
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DSler
Anon
2008-Oct-17 8:35 am
Re: No chance of deliveringSwitch to ATT. We DO work THAT well.. | |
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DSLer
Anon
2008-Oct-18 7:09 pm
Re: No chance of deliveringreply to Mactron Re: No chance of delivering
Switch to ATT. We DO work THAT well.. | |
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DSLer to DSler
Anon
2008-Oct-18 7:37 pm
to DSler
reply to Mactron Re: No chance of delivering | |
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Finally. Thank God.I knew it wouldn't work and I'm glad that it has finally died a quiet and faint death. | |
| | a333A hot cup of integrals please join:2007-06-12 Rego Park, NY |
a333
Member
2008-Oct-16 9:07 pm
Re: Finally. Thank God.Agreed, finally, BPL can go into a corner and die a quiet death.... good riddance... | |
| | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2 Zoom 5341J
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KrK
Premium Member
2008-Oct-17 1:43 am
Re: Finally. Thank God.said by a333:Agreed, finally, BPL can go into a corner and die a quiet death.... good riddance... They need to get rid of it to make room for White-Space Spectrum technology | |
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Buh-byeAnother solution looking for a problem. | |
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oolisfast
Anon
2008-Oct-16 10:25 pm
I dont agree that a duopoly is uncompetative..honestly, my feelings here; 2 competitors present the best competition because there is an enormous amount of funds to be made and when all services can be lost to the competition, its make or break. This makes it a hotbed for cutting edge technology and the cheapest price.
I cant say enough that more competition throws all this out the window. We see this now, look at rural, the claim, if I understand correctly, is that there may not be enough of a profit to be made to justify building the network there. The candy bar just isnt all that great when it is broken up into 15 pieces and we get one taste. | |
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Re: I dont agree that a duopoly is uncompetative..No, two competitors may be better than a pure monopoly, but the market dynamics are very poor. They prevent each other from the most egregious overpricing, but otherwise try not to "play chicken" and lessen mutual profits. It takes about four vendors to create a voluntary wholesale market, which genuinely opens up service competition.
Since it's not realistic or sensible for four vendors to pull wire to the home (it is a natural monopoly), the wire should be regulated and available at wholesale to service providers (ISPs and LECs). BPL was an attempt to pretend that there were three providers, to give the FCC an excuse to close off the ILEC wire from wholesale ISP access. It was a fraud, plain and simple. It also wiped out the 3-30 MHz radio spectrum. If anybody else used radio spectrum, outside of narrow Part 15 bands, they'd need to get a license, probably via auction. BPL was a massive giveaway of irreplaceable spectrum to the energy industry. Hmmm, what regime is in bed with the energy industry? | |
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bosco4513
Anon
2008-Oct-17 11:17 am
ChoiceThus begins the birth of the anti third choice fanboy. | |
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anon22
Anon
2008-Oct-17 3:00 pm
BPL not dead to feds WASHINGTON, September 24, 2008 - Agriculture Secretary Ed Schafer today announced that broadband and telecommunications loans totaling more than $342 million are being awarded to 18 communications firms serving 22 states. . . . International Broadband Electric Communications, Inc., in Hokes Bluff, Ala., was selected to receive a $49.2 million loan to construct a broadband over power line (BPL) network. The company will partner with 13 electric utilities to provide BPL service in seven states to connect 62,143 subscribers. The states are Alabama, Indiana, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Texas, Virginia and Wisconsin. | |
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Re: BPL not dead to fedssaid by anon22 :
WASHINGTON, September 24, 2008 - Agriculture Secretary Ed Schafer today announced that broadband and telecommunications loans totaling more than $342 million are being awarded to 18 communications firms serving 22 states. . . . International Broadband Electric Communications, Inc., in Hokes Bluff, Ala., was selected to receive a $49.2 million loan to construct a broadband over power line (BPL) network. The company will partner with 13 electric utilities to provide BPL service in seven states to connect 62,143 subscribers. The states are Alabama, Indiana, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Texas, Virginia and Wisconsin. Wow, what a waste of money. 18 firms? Where? This loan would have made sense four years ago, but now BPL has pretty much been shown to be a dead dog. I hope they've budgeted for bad debt because I doubt they're going to see these loans repaid. Oh well, I guess it's time for the third tier utilities to try BPL. The first and second tiers ones tried it and abandoned it. Maybe if they throw more money at it this time | |
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| tmpchaosRequiescat in pace Numquam oblitus join:2000-04-28 Hoboken, NJ |
tmpchaos
Numquam oblitus
2008-Oct-18 6:45 am
(topic offline) HAMTACULAR!!!Moderator Action This entire topic was removed, either temporarily, or permanently.
stated reason was: taking out the trash. | |
| titoyay222 Premium Member join:2005-04-27 Cincinnati, OH |
BPLI have BPL here in cincy (current communications). It has been a great service but I also subscribe to TWC RR service. That's my main connection. I only used my BPL service when RR was down or inconvenient for me to hook up to my switch.
It's a good service whenever I used it. Pings were usually low in the mid 30's. On occasion it would have lag spikes up to 80 or so. I'm not sure what was up with that.
I'm not sure what they mean by failed though... according to the current site they are expanding to Texas. It's a new section they added recently. So is the FCC going to be stopping this tech. or what? | |
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