The Kindness of StrangersEstablishing official support in tech forums ( old news - 01:28PM Tuesday Apr 30 2002) tags: business It's hard to get good help these days. Unless youre a disgruntled end user, trying to solve a problem in our forums. If you cant get a question answered from one of the lurking technical gurus, you can find representatives from most of the major ISPs perusing our forums daily, answering questions, solving problems, and generally putting on a good public face for the subscribers they serve. Yet some ISPs still look upon public forum interaction as something of a liability, and reprimand their techs for offering a helping hand. One example: One Cox subscriber, capped at 1.5Mbps/128Kbps, in Ocala Florida, was noticing a complete loss of sync every day from 1-3PM. Jumping to his aid, one cable tech quickly ran some diagnostics on his Mac address, noting that his signal levels were adequate, and began to explore other possible problems via a battery of tests. After looking at his customer and node history, the tech learned that his upstream power was jumping to ridiculous levels every day between one and three PM. The tech even bothered to offer proof:  Suggesting that the problem may be related to temperature was the last bit of help that was offered. The technician providing the help was contacted via phone and reprimanded for sharing the material, even though he was assisting to pinpoint the problem and probably saved Cox themselves time in further diagnosis. The call was from someone who had no local connection to the tech whatsoever. The tech involved refused to speak to us about further details. Cox's response is peculiar because there have been many instances of company Vice Presidents from various departments answering question within the Cox Forum walls. In fact, since this event, theyve set up two accounts in order to assist customers and have an official presence in the forums, and have other Cox employees going above and beyond in trying to resolve issues. Many companies are slowly shifting their stances on public interaction. Once just the domain of marketing gurus and salesmen, a smart ISP knows that a friendly human touch and a quick resolution to a problem can mean more than all the price cuts in the world to an end user. One of the last companies you'd expect would allow open criticism of its policies, oil baron Shell, has set up an open forum in which anyone can criticize the companies policies. What's unique about this, is that the company even encourages open employee response. Of course whether these employees are warned privately is another matter. Our forums are filled with ISPs who have learned that making yourself accessible makes good business sense. You can find Covad technicians willing to help out in our Speakeasy or Covad forums. Likewise you'll usually find techs troubleshooting in our Optimum On-Line forum, with Charter also having a very strong forum presence. We've yet to see any of the techs in these forums lead their respective companies into chapter 11, or even behave in ways a company wouldn't appreciate. In fact, if you ask the end users, were willing to bet their impression of the companies improved ten fold. Other ISP's seem much more heavy handed in their approach to technicians in public forums. Some of the strictest tech leash jerking has come from the folks at Comcast, who have been very restrictive on techs who've offered their services to forum visitors. Roadrunner has also been known to play hardball. Several technicians have been strongly reprimanded, and other have had to withdraw from the forums completely, deleting all posts, supposedly at the risk of termination. There are other ISP's who have similarly strong "anti-forum" policies. Its understandable that concerns about public interaction and liability exist. Particularly when you find techs from resellers or sub-contracted employees representing your company and technology without proper authorization or oversight. But for standard employees, would it not make sense to draft behavior guidelines for such forums, and reap the benefits of good PR that responding to problems quickly brings? Many companies have frequent internal discussion about public presence, and simply require a disclaimer after each post freeing the company from responsibility. If concern over privacy, liability and image is so rampant amongst companies holding the leash, why not establish clear and solid guidelines for technicians to follow while engaging the public via a public forum instead of suppressing the help all together? Related:- AT&T Tells Us Customer Service Critique Unfair
- FCC's Martin Praises Self For Non-Existent Network Openness
- AT&T, Verizon: Privacy Advocates Extraordinaire
- Canadian Regulators Strangling Independent ISPs
- T-Mobile Increases Wireless Data Prices
- McColo Closure Forces BotNet Shift
- UK May Still Adopt '3 Strikes' Anti-Piracy Law
- British Telecom's Ingenious Way Of Ending Phorm Criticism
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  mjf " " Premium,Mod join:2000-08-05 New Orleans, LA clubs:
·AT&T Southeast
Host: Wireless Networking Covad / covad.net D-Link Difficult Searches.. SouthCentral
| Damned.. I'm happy to see this written and put on the front page. Hopefully, it will encourage more tech support in the forums.
Unfortunately, I've seen a DLink tech get frustrated by the product bashing and the lack of patience by some posters. As a result, he has posted that he will be less active in the forum.
I would suggest that forums with official tech support, list the tech's user name in the forum header. Also, it might be useful to remind posters that the techs are here to help not to be abused. -- Join Team Discovery | |
|  |  Nightstick
join:2000-09-21 Philadelphia, PA
| DSLReports.com is THE Support for Earthlink DSL
When my Earthlink DSL went down a week ago I immediately called Earthlink Tech support and was told "we are working on it," which was their mantra for the next 5 days. Then, thanks to Raybro in the Covad forums here, I found out what the problem was. A day later, Archivis, in the Earthlink forums, worked his magic and prodded a fellow Earthlink employee into restoring my DSL. Without the DSLReports.com forums, I'd still be looking at 4 green lights on my DSL modem and hearing Earthlink tech support tell me that the problem must be on my end. | |
|  |   superfrik
join:2001-07-12 Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Damned.. I am a tech, we get paid to provide support to customers, I have never found a problem with helping someone out when they are in a bind. As is see it, everyone asking questions is a customer(why would they ask if they are not?) So this is another way to provide support, Right? Just a thought. -- If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing | |
|  |   cstrippie$
join:2001-12-19 Ceylon
| Re: Damned..The Apple answer
Apple has a dual approach. For our apple.com public user forums, there are techs that respond on behalf of Apple. For public message boards, the policy is (or was, anyway) that you are welcome to help out, but must not attempt to represent Apple. Sorta screwy, but at least they don't actively discourage the help.
Craig
(Former Apple T2 tech) | |
|  |   SAM Hunter$
join:2001-05-11 USA
edited
| Re: Damned.. Even outside the forums there have been and are many techs who help throughout the DSLR site. I remember when I got my DSL and joined over a year ago the problems that new DSL subscribers were much greater than today. Back in early 2001 subjectively Verizon DSL, especially Verizon East was one of the worse providers in the nation. They have since improved quite a bit. However, a DSLR member screen name Verizon Tech who was one, would often read the posts of reviews of New Verizon subscribers who were posting their "Horror Stories". Verizon Tech helped so many people I loss count. He did so despite being picked on my a minority of posters who could be quite nasty. In any event my thanks to Verizon Tech and his peers. -- Just because its accurate doesn't mean its true. [text was edited by author 2002-05-01 01:33:19] | |
|   elias Premium,VIP join:2000-07-24 Miami, FL clubs:  edited
| Check out the WorldCom Forum!!! Those of you with WorldCom/Rhythms lines will find this quite useful:
»MCI (formerly Worldcom)
-- Elias [text was edited by author 2002-04-30 13:48:10] | |
|   Aggie Dan Stop... Reverse That. Premium join:2001-01-30 Frisco, TX clubs:
| Well... I try not to go overboard with my activities in offering support since I know I could get in major trouble.
So, I offer help on the DSL through AOL Plus that I have at home more often then I offer help on the DSL that my company provides.
Though, if I can find a quick resolution, I will often research who the customer is and contact provisioning groups to help the customer. So, if some of you have posted and then received a phone call or email from out of the blue, it may have been me. -- Note : The statements made by myself on DSL Reports are purely my own and is not in anyway to be considered indicative of the opinions of my employer or of my coworkers. | |
|   Dewi Premium join:2001-09-28 united kingd
·BT Broadband
·Mediacom
edited
| Mediacom and Bellsouth have a good showing When I was checking out DSL, the techs at Bellsouth helped me out tremendously there when I could not get a straight answer from tier 1 support. And currently in Mediacom, techs there are helping out looking into an extremley tricky problem to track down. It certainley helps, as it leads to lots less frustration. Every time I call tier 1 support thier first response it to roll a truck, and with each tier 1 tech, and each truck tech I have to detail the problem from the start. And it never gets fixed, they try something, then leave and the problem remains. They mean well, they are polite and courteous; but when the problem does not get fixed it leads to frustration. When you can establish a connection with a tech on a forum you can establish an ongoing conversation, instead of explaining the same problem over and over to a new tech each time you call phone support.
I think the techs that maintain visibility on these forums, do a tremendous amount of good for the company they represent, in that they show the willingness of the company to solve your problem, through a multitude of ways, means and methods. [text was edited by author 2002-04-30 14:03:06] | |
|   DaSneaky1D one wall to block them all Premium,MVM join:2001-03-29 The Lou
·Charter Pipeline
| As long as the line is not crossed... Everything should be ok. As an SWB customer, our forum has very compenant techs that regulary visit to assist. When "fellow techs" get out of line, they are corrected and the add to the flow of support we are able to receive. As long as the techs remember who they represent, then it can only add to PR of the company.
Keep up the good work and thanks for the help these techs have offered to make BBR what it is today! -- -- I stand boldly on the threshold of lower middle class. DjESIGNS.com - stop by and shamelessly plug your site | |
|  freedonia
join:2002-03-13
| Priceless Good tech support is priceless. When I need to go shopping for DSL service or cable modem service, support is one of the top issues that I look at. If the support is bad, then they don't get my account. I don't mind paying a little more for John Doe's DSL service as long as the current customers are happy. There is a limit to what I will pay though.
It is really hard to trouble shoot something on the phone with level 1 'wannabie' techs that some places have. There are too many times when I have to sit and listen as these first support techs read their cards or keep putting me on hold when they ask someone else for the answer.
For instance...the company that I work for just bought PageMaker 7 and we noticed the mouse wheel doesn't work with it. When I called tech support, the answer I was given was that it never worked...It did in 6.52. The next reply from them was "It must have been taken out and you would have to ask the tech department why they did this.". The tech department is who I called. The lady then told me that she has only been working there for a couple of weeks.
I am glad to see people of all sorts trying to help out in the forums. Everyone can learn from everyone else's experiences and knowledge. -- Dave | |
|   WildGod God Is Dead Premium join:2002-01-30 NYC
edited
| What are they afraid of? I will never ever ever call tech support for any problem ever again. If I want to have a script read to me I'll watch TV. Luckily there are some techs who take the time out of their lives to help in the forums. Why should these people be reprimanded? Is it because they actually will go out of their way to make a customer happy? If I worked for a company that reprimanded me for that I would simply hire a lawyer and go straight to the news and let them know how these companies treat customers. I have called tech support in the past when I didnt know about DSLReports and I have never spoken to so many incompetent people (no offense to the techs wh know what they are talking about, perhaps I just got all the bad ones). The waiting time is ridiculous, the people are unproffesional at best, and I'm sick of the fact they they end resolving all issues with "just reinstall it". I have also heard of tech reps not being able to go out of their way on the phone and told to stick to the script. How disgusting, this is how you treat a customer? I work in the banking industry for one of the largest U.S. banks. Even though we have millions of clients, we treat each one as an individual. We dont use scripts, we listen to the customer and bend over backwards to help them. Theres only one thing nowadays that separates competing companies and that is service. I applaud OOL and the other companies who have an active presence in the forums. BRAVO. Thats the way you run a company and keep a customer happy.
A big thank you to the companies and techs who participate in the forums. And for those who dont or who reprimand their techs for doing so, enjoy Chapter 11. -- AOL DSL SUCKS / REMOVE SENATOR FRITZ HOLLINGS FROM OFFICE
[text was edited by author 2002-04-30 15:11:53] | |
|  |   Jackson$ Need It Wrecked? 1-800-Marine
join:2001-11-17 Buffalo, NY
| Re: What are they afraid of? "I will never ever ever call tech support for any problem ever again. If I want to have a script read to me I'll watch TV"
...and this is why a lot of companies won't have reps here in an official capacity. I read from _no_+ scripts, yet you have made a false presumption.
"Luckily there are some techs who take the time out of their lives to help in the forums"
And even after folks have said I was a "Brain dead script monkey" I have tried to help them to the best of my ability on _my_ time. This is the appreciation we have so machocistly come to enjoy. Not.
Why would _any_ company consider asking an employee to be subjigated to "Take your scripts" and go post on a forum in the general public?
"If I worked for a company that reprimanded me for that I would simply hire a lawyer and go straight to the news and let them know how these companies treat customers"
The open ended picture is for "that". When folks call in, for 'quality assurance', some calls are monitored. If your ever off base with the service they wish you to provide to the customers.. you could be terminated.
So.. While you state your distain for all these 'script readers' that try and help as best they can, realize they have to tolerate the truly B.S. comments you make in fear of loosing their job.
"I have also heard of tech reps not being able to go out of their way on the phone and told to stick to the script"
Again, I have no script. I have a list of things I _can_ do, and a list of things I've been advised _not_ to do. There is grey area.
If a customer needs guidance in how to use a mail client or a web browser.. I will go out of my way to give them a quick crash course and advise them of good literature for the right direction.. this is reguardless if my employer provided this software to the customer or not. 90% of the folks you speak with will do this out of human courtesy, somethign thats very rare from those with no minds who read from scripts.
Some cheap advice to all who feel as you do good Sir:
The next time your connection goes down and you have to call that script reading individual.. Show a tad bit of appreciation for what they do ( Tolerating a lot of unapreciative jerks ). A pleasent attitude will get anyones problems resolved more expediently and efficiently
Sincerly Jackson. | |
|  |  |  dannysdailys
join:2000-09-29 Lockport, NY
| Re: What are they afraid of? Some cheap advice to all who feel as you do good Sir:
The next time your connection goes down and you have to call that script reading individual.. Show a tad bit of appreciation for what they do ( Tolerating a lot of unapreciative jerks ). A pleasent attitude will get anyones problems resolved more expediently and efficiently
Sincerly Jackson.
Well Jackson, All I can say is this. Tolerating a lot of unappreciative jerks? I could say the same thing to you. These unappreciative jerks, as you call them, pay your salary! Perhaps the thought never entered your cranial cavity. If your company didn't make lousy products or sell lousy services, you wouldn't get the call at all! Perhaps the true unappreciative jerks are the companies themselves. I sincerely hope you do tech better then you spell. Dan Daily -- Madness Takes Its Toll, Please Have Exact Change | |
|  |  |  |  Verruckt
join:2002-04-10 | Re: What are they afraid of? "I sincerely hope you do tech better > then you spell."
You were saying? | |
|  |  |  |   deltat2000 Timor Omnis Abesto Premium join:2000-04-13 127.0.0.1 clubs:
edited
| Well Danny boy, your certainly a "sterling" example of what Jackson was referring to.
If your service is sooo poor, then why are you using it. Is it perhaps that its the only option in town? If so, then it certainly says alot about what your willing to accept! Instead of making some poor techs day, why don't you spend some serious money next time your connection, or computer goes out by calling a Consultant in to troubleshoot your problem. I guarantee that after paying that bill, that you'll have a greater appreciation for the phone support you get for free! I guess its just real easy to bitch when it doesn't cost you anything but the call.
[text was edited by author 2002-05-01 16:52:11] | |
|  |  |  |   Jackson$ Need It Wrecked? 1-800-Marine
join:2001-11-17 Buffalo, NY
| "All I can say is this. Tolerating a lot of unappreciative jerks? I could say the same thing to you"
Exactly right.. and that helps someones connection get up in what way? ... It doesn't.
"These unappreciative jerks, as you call them, pay your salary!"
Wow.. I would _love_ a salary! Make as much as the management you claim does the following...
"If your company didn't make lousy products or sell lousy services".
"Perhaps the thought never entered your cranial cavity".
I know _exactly_ where my wage derives from. My duties as stated are to provide technical refrence/support.. Not be a verbal punching bag.
"Perhaps the true unappreciative jerks are the companies themselves.".
This might be one thing we _may_ agree upon.
"I sincerely hope you do tech better then you spell"
LOL! You bet  | |
|  |   WildGod God Is Dead Premium join:2002-01-30 NYC
edited
| i didnt mean to offend any tech support. but i know when i have called aol the "techs" i am connected with at first are basically paid interns who use a database(if this is not true at your company then please do not take offense). i can hear them typing in my question. the other reason i say this is that i had to call dell because i had a problem reformatting my pc and he barely spoke english and didnt know what video drivers were. now im sorry but if you dont know what a video driver is hw can you possibly be considered a tech? ive had an aol supervisor tell me i had probably been infected with a virus because my mediaplayer wouldnt work.(i always have my NAV and internet security running and never d/l anything ifi dont know the source. needless to say i fixed it on my own. all i am saying is the first line of reps arent exactly what i would consider tech support. i would consider them troubleshooters. i did not mean any offense to any legit tech support. i will say one thing the tech support at MS was outstanding. the guy knew exactly what to do in a matter of seconds and it was not an easy problem. perhaps i have just had bad experiences other than that. also i dont blame the techs i understand they have to follow the "scripts" i blame the companies. i have been repeatedly been told to reformt my hard drive or reinstall software just to get me off the phone and that i dont appreciate.
quote: If a customer needs guidance in how to use a mail client or a web browser.. I will go out of my way to give them a quick crash course and advise them of good literature for the right direction
This is the problem, when i call tech support it is not for simple things. i consider myself an advanced pc user so if i need tech support it is for something major and i dont want to have to go through every step the tech has to, the fact that i called is because i have gone through all the simple steps. Perhaps they should tier tech support and ask users at the beginning of a call what they consider their pc knowledge to be. If its beginners then run through the "script", if not transfer them to an advanced tech rep. It would save them time and money. Im sure most of the calls to tech support are simple issues as u stated, but there are some of us who can handle those on our own and want help with major issues. -- AOL DSL SUCKS / REMOVE SENATOR FRITZ HOLLINGS FROM OFFICE
[text was edited by author 2002-05-01 11:38:10] | |
|  |  |   Jackson$ Need It Wrecked? 1-800-Marine
join:2001-11-17 Buffalo, NY
| Re: What are they afraid of? "i didnt mean to offend any tech support".
Totally understandable. _Some_ companies might use policies and person as you mention here:
"but i know when i have called aol the "techs" i am connected with at first are basically paid interns who use a database(if this is not true at your company then please do not take offense). i can hear them typing in my question. the other reason i say this is that i had to call dell because i had a problem reformatting my pc and he barely spoke english and didnt know what video drivers were. now im sorry but if you dont know what a video driver is hw can you possibly be considered a tech? "
Agreed. There _are_ in fact some companies that choose to use a third party for their support systems. Some are located far outside the reach of the service area as well. I find this policy to be flawed ( personal opinion ).
Where Im at.. theres 2 'scripts' to follow. Greet the customer when answering their call as well as thank them for using the product when closing.. and be courtiouse. Very simple. The rest is all 'Gray' area where I will do my damndest to enable the customers connection/software/issue to a state thats satisfactory.
"This is the problem, when i call tech support it is not for simple things".
90% of all calls going into _any_ Technical Support venue are from newer computer users. I despise the term "Computer Illiterate". These are folks that are just 'new' to using a Pc/Mac. They are the main focus of call centers.
"i consider myself an advanced pc user so if i need tech support it is for something major and i dont want to have to go through every step the tech has to, the fact that i called is because i have gone through all the simple steps"
Sometimes theres simple steps you CANNOT perform on _your_ end. Heres an example...
Your on a cable modem. you have reinstalled your nic card. you had dinner durring that time and your DHCP IP address died.. Now your recieving a 169.x.x.x IP addy every time you restart your computer. When you call in and that individual asks you to reboot your modem.. most folks hear a voice in their head.. "I've already done this.. twice even!".
Little did anyone know that Tier 1 person cleared your nic off the Local UBR so it could restart its DHCP process.
Trust me.. theres a lot of things that do happen. There is a reason why they ask for you to perform several steps that seem repititouse. But there is a method to all this madness.
"Perhaps they should tier tech support and ask users at the beginning of a call what they consider their pc knowledge to be".
This would NOT be cost effective for ANY bussiness. Your Tier2 and Tier3 folks would be swamped while Tier1 was browsing the web. Nobody wants to speak with a 'script reader'.. why not just bypass them altogether?
"If its beginners then run through the "script", if not transfer them to an advanced tech rep. It would save them time and money. Im sure most of the calls to tech support are simple issues as u stated, but there are some of us who can handle those on our own and want help with major issues. "
There is a definate need for Tier1 support. There is also a great need to run EVERYONE ( with the acception of those with trouble tickets ) through Tier1.
You may be correct in stating there are Idiots in Tier 1 support centers. There are Idiots everywhere. But these are people doing a job that burns one out very quickly.
These people are supposed to provide technical assistence for technical issues.. Most folks feel its the complaint department . They vent their frustrations, lable then with titles , then wish to be passed up to a more 'compitent' individual.
This is not in reguards to yourself in specific, but EVERYONE needs to realise if these individuals decided to go work for McDonalds or wherever someone else may feel their more qualified to establish gainful employment.. Nobody would be there to roll the truck for the loss of block synch on your modems... or your email systems that dont recieve mail..
Sincerly Jackson. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  claudeo
join:2000-02-23 Redmond, WA
| First, people should realize that providing tech support costs real money. Answering a call costs anywhere from $5 to $15 typically--what with basic overhead like office space and related expenses, staffing, vacation time for the staff, dead time between calls, support database provisioning, etc. and the costs escalates as the call gets longer. So, it does make sense that the tech support system be based on an escalating model where people are first answered by less qualified tech support people who must follow a script before they are not expert, and so on until really tough problems can be submitted to the few, very expensive experts who are also often a little more difficult to work with than the people you hire at lower wages. Many technical problems are simple and can be solved by following a simple diagnostic script. Some are not, and do require a lot more thought and knowledge. Some are very difficult, and require a true expert. If the true experts were to answer every call, your wait on hold would probably be much, much longer because you would be waiting in line behind the poor user who does not know where a plug goes or which way is up. I don't work for a broadband provider. However, whenever I (rarely) call tech support I do try to remember this basic business reality. If you cost more to your ISP than he's making from our account, how is it going to stay in business? | |
|   JohnC Mr. John Premium join:2000-09-22 Hamden, CT | SNET Also has un-offical forum support.
I have been known to lurk in the SNET/SBC DSL forum. This forum has some extremely helpful employees who spend time helping the end users with remote terminal, account, speed, availability, and other issues. Nice work. | |
|   Vorticon Premium join:2000-08-24 Fruitland Park, FL
| Some risk losing their jobs Read what happened when a tech helped someone out in the Roadrunner forum.
Sometimes the consequences are not so great... »Rather Irrelevant Notice. -- I know you believe you understand what you think I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. | |
|   Mactac
@uu.net | Reprimand?? Oh, you foolish executives! These guys offer a valuable service that only increases goodwill felt toward your companies. I do nothing but applaud the techs in DSLR. Special mention to Engineer88 over in the OOL forum. | |
|  bgraham
join:2001-03-15 Smithtown, NY
·Verizon FIOS
| The Help Forums Here Are Saving ISP's the help forums here are saving isp's money. there must be several hundred people a day getting fixes that otherwise would end up as support calls. Any isp would be smart to donate a tech person for support to their own forums. the great thing about these forums is that help comes from other users free of charge to the isp's
i set up a lot of web based shopping cart systems written by a small company in north carolina and they have online support forums as a first line support system and it is great because you not only get support from the company but you get support from other people who are knowledgable users. | |
|  |  |  |  kherr Premium join:2000-09-04 Collinsville, IL clubs:
| said by bgraham: the help forums here are saving isp's money. there must be several hundred people a day getting fixes that otherwise would end up as support calls.
And the untold amount of people reading fixes and applying them to their problem. I know I've learned a lot in trouble shooting so that when you do have to make that tech support call you can go right to the problem and eliminate all the banter to figure out what's going on. | |
|   RickNY Premium join:2000-11-02 New York
·Optimum Online
edited
| Optimum Online one of the good ones... As a frequent visitor to the Optimum Online forum here on DSLR, I can tell you firsthand, that participation with users of a service on a more personalized level, such as one of the forums here, definitely ends up giving the company a much better image in the user's eyes... Often, users are faced with difficulties that they know are beyond the capabilities of a Level 1, or even Level 2 tech at the technical support department, yet are often brushed off by these same techs when calling in for technical support, simply because the telephone support's scripted answers to the user's questions are nowhere to be found.. Having a few OOL engineers on hand, in the forum, allows these users an alternative place to go to report their problems, and often, get corrected much faster than waiting for 100 users to call up a technical service number and report a difficulty. The techs in the forum are extremely knowledgeable of how their system functions, and are usually dead on with their diagnosis of a problem.. Prior to participating in this forum, I used to cringe when a problem arose with my service, and was reluctant to call technical support, simply because I thought it wouldnt do any good at all.. My view of Cablevision's support department was rather bad (as indicated in my ISP review), but after participating in the forum, I can honestly say that my image of the company and the service has improved by a long shot..
So for those companies out there that shun involvement by their techs in a forum environment, such as Comcast, or Roadrunner -- maybe this is something you should watch and learn from.. I know my parents have Roadrunner down in Tampa, FL, and anytime there is a DEFINITE problem, the only route my parents have is to call up Roadrunner, just to be told "Well, thats funny.. We're not showing any problems here".. It becomes insulting to the more technical users of the service to have to deal with attitudes like that..
Rick
[text was edited by author 2002-04-30 18:19:18] | |
|  |   Phoenix Gold Hypocrite
join:2001-11-24 Faulkton, SD clubs:
·Qwest.net
| they rule I had a tech take interest in my problem over in the Qwest forum. He was so much more help than phone support and cost qwest NOTHING! Having one person willing to follow my problem until it was solved was invaluable to getting things corrected. These 'broadband angels' should be given employee of the month awards with a fat bonus! Any suit that cant see what a great benefit these hard workers are to a company is a moron who should lose his/her job. | |
|  |  |   Mactac
@uu.net | Re: they rule You said it better than I did  | |
|   drjim Premium,MVM join:2000-06-13 Torrance, CA clubs: | Get a Clue! Management at these short-sighted firms should be forced to read "The Cluetrain Manifesto". If you've read the book, you'll agree. If you haven't, you need to. drjim -- One man's Magic is another man's Engineering. | |
|   NetWatchMan Premium,VIP join:2001-03-13 Alpharetta, GA
| Wake up and smell the CUSTOMER I initially created the (private) DSL newgroups for Bellsouth.net and then spent over two years monitoring them...based on that experience I became a huge proponent of company involvement in forums.
Throughout that time I also encoutered tremedous resistance to treat forum partipants with the honesty, commitment, and service-level I felt they deserved. Bottom-line, if a customer was going to bend-over backwards to help identify a problem...them doing most of the work, I felt obligated to reciprocate.
One of my take-aways from this was that the customer's primary objective isn't necessarily fixing their problem, but rather BEING TOLD THE TRUTH.
If the TRUTH was that you didn't qualify for DSL because you lived in a rural area where DSLAM deployment couldn't be cost-justified...probably NEVER...then so be it. Tell me THAT, not "you don't qualify now, but keep checking back...we are doing upgrades in your area."
The biggest mistake I see companies taking with regard to forum monitoring is thinking that it's just reading messages...a job any $8/hr temp can do. The problem is that forums are almost totally unstructured. You could have 5 people reporting the same problem, but expressing the symptom in completely different ways. You can also have chronic problems that occur over time...with nothing that easily ties them together. To fully leverage what get's posted here, companies need to put some of their most Sr. people on it...not the most Jr.
Maybe they don't need to be the primary participants, but they definintely need to monitor and jump in when they see something that stands out.
I wonder what the cost of a call to an ISPs help line is vs. a post to this forum!
I don't think most providers really appreciate the free ride they're getting. -- Lawrence Baldwin »www.myNetWatchman.com Automatic Port Scan Reporting | |
|   72276539 Premium join:2001-01-19 Atlanta, GA
| Scared tech's? If the ISP is scared the techs posting will do/say the wrong things then the ISP should look at them not staying on the job. What they post in these forums is nothing different then what should be posted on various trouble tickets or department emails. -- »www.geocities.com/anubisracing | |
|   Hall Premium,MVM join:2000-04-28 Dayton, OH
| Earthlink's techs
There's a few Earthlink techs who post unofficially and are very helpful !! They usually tell it like it is, which means they're HONEST. No company line about "we're aware of the problem and our engineers are working on it" ! -- -= Mindspring MaxDSL via Covad 1536/384 TeleSurfer Pro =- | |
|   DMenscha It's Not Fixed, But We Have A Workaround
join:2001-07-19 <-nowhere->
| A Technicians opinion I watch the Pacbell Forum's fairly closely and participate when necessary. I really wouldn't care what SBC/Pacbell/ASI management had to say about my posts because I am pretty well untouchable (by them) at this point. If it weren't for the technicians posting in that forum, then the amount of disinformation would be staggering.
Except for the obvious " I can't use the forum because I can't connect at all" problem, all companies in this business could solve their tech support issues in forums like these. -- Indecision may or may not be my problem | |
|  George1230
join:2000-02-11 Ramsey, NJ
| Kindness rewards... the giver and the recipient Great to have this plainly written.
I've dealt with companies that had very tight policies...and when I had a good conversation with a network tech (after I finally got the trouble escallated), it was clear that competence and capability were there, but the Verizon (clearly iron-clad) rules didn't let them help nearly as much as they would like to and could. But even at Verizon folks tried to help, but it was difficult for all with the rules and company attitude.
Optimum OnLine (OOL) is at the other extreme - Superb!!! I had a call on my cellphone at 9:30 PM coming back from a meeting - support had left a message on my home phone, but they wished to be sure to talk to me. OOL is easy to reach, competent and expert, and cares!
With better than 45 years as a telecomm professional, I've seen the complete range. | |
|  wiley post$
join:2002-01-13 who cares
| Don't forget us at ASI !!!!!!!!!
While we are not always able to fix all our end users issues all the time, we at ASI do try our best. Like most other ISP's, all to often, end users use forums to berate the ISP tier one support for not being able to write source code or make a 486 machine with 8 megs of ram run windows 2k. I do hope, as the skill sets of the end users continues to improve, as ours have,we can enjoy a mutually beneficial broadband experience. It's not always a bed of roses, but when both parties keep a cool head and work together, there are few obstacles we cannot overcome. Keep the faith! and HAGO !!!!!!!!!
All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff. Frank Zappa | |
|   2kmaro Think Premium,ExMod 1 BC join:2000-07-11 ColossalCave clubs:  
| The Good, The Bad and The Sometimes Ugly The Good: judging from the OOL forum, and of late, the CoxHSI forum there is much good for both sides in having techs participate openly in the forums. For the customers it means getting reasonably intelligent help from people who have training and knowledge of the systems involved. Often it seems to mean the difference between getting a problem fixed and having to just live with it. For the company - Folks, you cannot BUY better public relations. Having an official tech presence in forums like these very clearly says that you have an interest in the customer's well being.
The Bad: when incidents come up where a tech is threatened by the company for participating, that's nothing but bad for all concerned. Techs in general get gun shy. Customers loose good support. And if you look at the results of some actions taken against techs, HEY PROVIDER - You couldn't get WORSE publicity and public sentiment than to chastise or fire the people trying to help out. When we (and here I mean Justin) gets a *demand* to provide the actual name of a tech, or someone that appears to be a tech you can bet that besides ignoring the heavy handed approach, there tends to be a lot of laughing at the provider for even asking! Case in point: one provider demanded the account information on one user who wasn't even a tech employed by them, but they got the "impression" that he was one of theirs from his user name. ROFLMAO still!
The Ugly: to me the ugly is the beatings that some of these techs take when they come out of their (equipment) closet and let it be known who they are in a problem plagued forum such as Comcast or CoxHSI. Our dear members tend to take out their frustrations on the nearest, clearest target: that poor tech that just stepped in to actually attempt to provide a little information, help or guidance. The other edge to that blade is the cuts that are delivered toward these techs by the customers regarding company policy. They seem to think that because the tech has the company logo on his shirt that he's setting policy for caps, pricing, service priorities. So in the end, sometimes the poor techs catch hell from both sides! Ugly indeed.
I applaud the providers who are finally seeing the benefits to be gained from official support in public forums. By officially sanctioning such assistance they can even openly publish policy letters for those techs to follow and adhere to: Here's a list of what you can do and what you cannot do while at BBR or any other site. Makes the rules for the techs clear cut - and I feel that the companies should not be ashamed to have those rules read in the various forums. That also helps the customers know just why a tech may not be able to help in a particular situation. If it would reveal some trade secret or seriously confidential item, then it's good to know that's why the help must be withheld, withdrawn or toned down. -- Senator, I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the Tupperware Party. | |
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