 moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD | Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. Just like pawn shops, they don't care where the stuff comes from.
 | |
|
 | 
tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
| Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. They already do here, they photocopy your licence/ID before you get money for anything.
This largely because the state highway dept. has had over $1million in guardrails, signs, wiring (including some in operation) and light poles stolen is the first six months of this year.
I got carded when I took in 2 old pellet stoves and a dishwasher. | |
|
| | 
insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. said by tshirt  : I got carded when I took in 2 old pellet stoves and a dishwasher. That's awesome. But not enough. People should have to register with the state to scrap metal via a webpage that links to dmv photos and information. And everything they turn in should be logged to the same online system by the scrap yard. Money should only be paid by a check in the name that matches the online record. The police need to be able to easily check scrap records and if someone is caught scrapping stolen metal, they should be blocked by the system from scrapping metal ever again. It's ridiculous when a whole tower can be cut up and scrapped and no one knows who did it. If weights were logged, it would be possible to see if one person scrapped metal across multiple scrap yards that equaled the weight of the tower or if a hand full of people together scrapped that much metal. Police would actually have a chance to catch these people via a few minutes of querying a database. | |
|
| | | jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
 ·ViaTalk
| Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. Yeah, if there's one thing to say about the scrap industry it's that they're on the cutting edge of technology. They'll be eager to spend money on this type of system to do law enforcement's job for them. | |
|
| | | 
meister_sd
Premium
join:2006-01-29
La Mesa, CA | Need the first born too? | |
|
| | | |
| | | |
insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. said by rec9140 :You want some DNA with that too???!?? While the situation cuts close to home and gets my panties in a bunch I think your approach is a little over the top. How so? A web site. A web site where I sign up on if I want to sell scrap. It takes maybe 5 minutes of my time and I can sign up 24/7. I go to the scrap yard. Give them metal. They weight it and tell me how much it is worth. I accept deal. They need state id and the id number from the site I registered on. They are already logged into the site on their own computer (which requires at most a 10 year old pc with internet access) and enters in the registration number which returns my photo and official name. They check photo and name with state id and my own face and enter the dln which validates against the record to validate that the correct non fake physical id was looked at. They click a button that says log a new transaction. They fill in a short description of metal, the type, the weight, and what I am being paid. Click ok. Then they write out a check to the name the web page gave them and hand it over.
It would actually be quicker than filling out a paper log book by hand, known criminals can be barred from the service, and the police can figure out who stole all the wiring from a building very easily. In addition you can pass a law that says if a scrap yard knowingly fakes this validation or doesn't validate a transaction they get shut down. Very unobtrusive and it could do a lot to keep the industry honest. | |
|
| | | | | 
rec9140
Provoice just DO it
join:2003-07-29
Mulberry, FL
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. said by insomniac84 :
How so? A web site.
Too much Nannyment for my tastes. | |
|
| | | | | |
insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
edit:
September 10th, @05:34PM
| Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. said by rec9140 : said by insomniac84 :
How so? A web site.
Too much Nannyment for my tastes. Why? This is information scrap yards should be already required to log. Otherwise police would have zero chance of even investigating metal theft. This just moves it to a simple website that makes it easy to determine theft and ban people who have been caught with theft from scrapping metal.
Scrap yards have no right to run a business that allows them to profit heavily off of theft. If states implemented such a simple tracking system people wouldn't have to worry about their catalytic converters or their giant towers disappearing.
The only way I could see someone being against this is if they run a scrap yard and regularly pay minimum dollar for metal they know is stolen. | |
|
| | | | | | | hottboiinnc
Kyle
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH
·buckeye cable
| Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. are you going to build, host, maintain and everything else for this website?
And what happens when you have someone sitting there during the day bored and then randomly put puts numbers into that system? Are you going to be one who whines and cries that not enough protection was there?
Of course you would be
I call bullshit on what you want done.
If you don't like the way the business is done tough shit. States have bigger problems to worry about than paying for a new database- let alone making sure scrap yards comply with the law. | |
|
| | | | | | | |
insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. The state charges a license fee to the scrappers. Problem solved. The security issues are pointless because you can only look up info with the separate id from the site. And it only returns a picture and a name. Nothing else. But info from the id is then inputted and validated. Identity theft doesn't work from a random photo and a random name. You also can let the user set the access times so that info can only be polled the day or the few hours they know they are going to the scrap yard. And you lock out a scrapper that tries to run random numbers. Which would stop them from accepting metal and thus ruining their business. Security is not an issue. The webpage is extremely simple and cheap. It can run on existing servers.
said by hottboiinnc :If you don't like the way the business is done tough shit. States have bigger problems to worry about than paying for a new database- let alone making sure scrap yards comply with the law. Clearly you are a metal scrapper that buys catalytic converters from crack heads. | |
|
| | | | | | | | | hottboiinnc
Kyle
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH
·buckeye cable
| Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. uh sorry no i don't . I work for The Fresh Market. sorry.
But if it was so cheap to build this? who is going to maintain it? you still have to PAY someone to input the information. also hire additional staff to give the licenses. blah blah blah.
you're idea is flawed won't happen. | |
|
| | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | |
insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. But right now scrap metal yards should not accept bulk catalytic converters. Things they know are stolen. But they do. And if they voluntarily are not keeping records that could be used to track down a thief they are accomplices who embezzle the metal. The fact is, the current system lets a scrapper accept anything with no accountability. They do it because they can underpay the thief and turn around and make a lot of money on the metal.
Yes, the people that support theft, if not promote it, should definitely pay 30 bucks a month to gain access to system to track abuse. Tons of small businesses pay worse for a credit card machine. So costs would definitely not be unfair. In the end, the biggest loss of profit will be the lack of criminals turning in scrap metal. Which is something no one has a right to argue over. | |
|
| | | | | | | | |
rec9140
Provoice just DO it
join:2003-07-29
Mulberry, FL
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. said by insomniac84 :
Which is something no one has a right to argue over.
Well, then you will need to let every user of Ebay know they need to get a license to sell on Ebay, register with the FBI, CIA, DEA, ATF, EPS, etc...
Ebay can and is used for similar things.
Oh, better apply that registry to every yard sale as well. They are good for at least one stolen property recovery call a weekend if not more. At the height of the yard sale season its probably 3-4 on average a weekend.
I don't see your way.... Your not going to solve the issue with this database. Just as there are pawn shops or others who deal with stolen property you just move it around. Those who are not going to follow the laws to begin with are not going to follow this either. Who is going to polic this? Local police? State? Federal? The feds have way more important things at the top of their list. Hint it starts with the letter T. State. Same thing. Local? Outside major cities, most areas do not have pawn shop units. Your area may different. There is a COST for this enforcement and some one is going to pay and its not just going to be the scrap metal collectors and sellers. YOU, Joe and Jane Taxpayer..... NO Thanks.
Less is more.
There are existing laws and practices to deal with theft.
If you have property that needs to be protected then Y O U as the owner need to protect it.
Just as an example.... The towers I am in direct control of are checked on 3 TIMES per day. Once per shift. If I want to get nasty I can do a little SQL query to the DB and find every record of a tower check. Fail to perform the check in your zone, that is grounds for termination ON THE SPOT! Thats in addition to alarm systems, cameras, and ground sensors. So breath too hard close to my tower(s) be prepared to meet some of my friends and their "little friends."
The tower in question I am familar with and was not in use at the time. Those involved obviously had planned this out very well to get this item down and off the location. Especially due to the remoteness of the location.
The words:
1984
George
Orwell
Big Brother
All come to mind in your proposal, and thanks but NO THANKS!
--
Ban all copyright, trademarks, and IP laws!//Lorem ipsum ei pro stet equidem labores, at enim animal expetenda nec. Ea vix argumentum dissentiunt, usu esse ridens ex. | |
|
| | | | | | | | |
insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. I think you are going way to far in your assessment. I've never heard of a company ruined because of a garage sale. Or a real estate deal fall apart because of a pawn shop. Scrap metal yards encourage theft and cause a lot of damage to people. And a pawn shop or a garage sale doesn't destroy the items, which means stolen items at those places are recoverable.
You have crack heads stealing whole towers, catalytic converters from cars, wiring from buildings, pipes from buildings, power lines, etc. And the scrap yards even know these items are stolen, they just ignore the issue because they know they will never get in trouble for it and they can underpay the thief. It's an industry that has failed miserably at self policing and therefore the states need to step in and force something on them. | |
|
| | | | | | | | | d50man
join:2002-08-27
Hickory, NC | rec9140
Your stuff can still get pulled quick.
F350 thru the fence then hookup to the pedestal and pull.
If they want it they'll take it depends on motivation | |
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | jarthur31
join:2006-04-14
Carlsbad, NM
·US Cable
| That's a very well thought out answer. It's people like you who should run for local or state government. Sadly, it's the corporations that would keep you out of the national spotlight because you can think for yourself and Lord knows they hate dealing with people who have morals and a bit of common sense. | |
|
| | | | | Tiggntaz
join:2007-05-08
Saint Augustine, FL
| said by insomniac84 :said by rec9140 :You want some DNA with that too???!?? While the situation cuts close to home and gets my panties in a bunch I think your approach is a little over the top. How so? A web site. A web site where I sign up on if I want to sell scrap. It takes maybe 5 minutes of my time and I can sign up 24/7. I go to the scrap yard. Give them metal. They weight it and tell me how much it is worth. I accept deal. They need state id and the id number from the site I registered on. They are already logged into the site on their own computer (which requires at most a 10 year old pc with internet access) and enters in the registration number which returns my photo and official name. They check photo and name with state id and my own face and enter the dln which validates against the record to validate that the correct non fake physical id was looked at. They click a button that says log a new transaction. They fill in a short description of metal, the type, the weight, and what I am being paid. Click ok. Then they write out a check to the name the web page gave them and hand it over. It would actually be quicker than filling out a paper log book by hand, known criminals can be barred from the service, and the police can figure out who stole all the wiring from a building very easily. In addition you can pass a law that says if a scrap yard knowingly fakes this validation or doesn't validate a transaction they get shut down. Very unobtrusive and it could do a lot to keep the industry honest. LOL This is funny. There is a reason that everything is done in CASH!!!! I don't want to be taxed on what I take there and they don't want to keep true books. | |
|
| | | 
3SGTE
ST215W
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
clubs:
| said by insomniac84 :That's awesome. But not enough. People should have to register with the state to scrap metal I like this idea.
--
Striving for Parfection. | |
|
| | | rurick
join:2003-05-18
Indianapolis, IN
·Comcast
| said by insomniac84 ...If weights were logged, it would be possible to see if one person scrapped metal across multiple scrap yards...
[/BQUOTE :Great idea overall, but you assume that in this case the owner actually knows how much that beast actually weighs. I'll bet you lunch they havent a clue. What about if they did? what if the perp happened to make a side trip and stole several other items before heading to the 'yard? That would throw off the weight unless you actually forced the scrapyards to actually figure out what bits being recycled came from which sites/items which isnt feasible. | |
|
| 
Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | They should also have to run video surveillance showing what is being recycled. | |
|
| | 
Corehhi
join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
| Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. said by Dogfather :They should also have to run video surveillance showing what is being recycled. We had some idiots steal a brand new set of bleachers. Alumium ones. The scrap place called the police and they are in jail now but how do they think they will get away with that? Also scrap prices aren't that high. | |
|
| | |
Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. A friend of mine said someone stole the marquee sign in front of his housing tract. | |
|
| | | rahvin112
join:2002-05-24
Sandy, UT
| Copper used to go for $1 a pound. It's over $3.50 a pound now. That's a 350% increase in price and 50lbs of copper is going to net you $175 bucks. That's enough for probably about 15 crack rocks. Where at the $1 price the same 50lbs would have got them $50. If you are desperate for $100 stealing scrap and selling it is a quick buck. Even steel and Iron now have values that make their theft meaningfull to someone that needs a few dollars to get high. | |
|
| | | | 
scrappppit
@mi.us | Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. I thought China had their fill of US scrap metal already?
Prices will drop until they need more and the prices will go back up. | |
|
| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | and some sure you want your tax dollars spent for this, because we surely know the yards wont fund it.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
|
| |
Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. I have a small business and get TONS of unfunded mandates from local, State and Federal gov't. | |
|
| | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Kearnstd :and some sure you want your tax dollars spent for this, because we surely know the yards wont fund it. No, the yards will pay for it. Call it the price of doing business. | |
|
| |
| | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. said by shdesigns :said by moonpuppy :Just like pawn shops, they don't care where the stuff comes from. That is not what I have seen. They require an ID so they know who is bringing the stuff in. That's what they say but I can tell you, they are less stringent on IDs then a bouncer at a bar. They busted a pawn shop around here for multiple violations and found a ton of stolen goods and a bunch of handguns taken in and NOT reported. Each handgun must be reported to see if they are stolen or not. | |
|
| | | 
shdesigns
Powered By Infinite Improbabilty Drive
Premium
join:2000-12-01
Stone Mountain, GA | Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. Pawn shops do not recycle metal.
Here with no ID, you will not be able to recycle metals. Your ID is required as all transactions are tied to that ID in their records. | |
|
| | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. said by shdesigns :Pawn shops do not recycle metal. Here with no ID, you will not be able to recycle metals. Your ID is required as all transactions are tied to that ID in their records. And I know here they were stealing light poles. Large 70ft light poles and the ONLY reason they found one guy was because the police saw him driving a Ford Escort wagon with the pole hanging out the back.
In Philadelphia, they are stealing manhole covers. Someone has to be taking this metal in for scrap and no one seems to know who is bringing it in.
They may ask for ID where you are but not everywhere. | |
|
| 
dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by moonpuppy :Just like pawn shops, they don't care where the stuff comes from. they already do in arizona, you can't scrap more than $25 worth of copper without an ID and SSN., catalyitic converters: one in a 90 day span.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
|
| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| i can understand not caring much where it comes from when its wire(hard to tell who owned it), but Manhole covers? those usually mention the power company, phone company, or "Public Works" on them and it should ring a bell.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
|
MIRV
join:2000-12-01
Louisville, KY | Meth It's a hell of a drug! | |
|
wdoa
join:2001-10-16
Spencer, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
| meatheads Yee haw, meatheads in pickup trucks. yea these scrap yards will take anything that will get them a buck. There is no way that most of them will properly self-regulate, believe me I've dealt with these scum in a past life. They are right up there with 2nd tier used car dealers. | |
|
| moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD | Re: meatheads I would really love to have the government sell meth with cyanide added to the formulation. That would cure a lot of the problem real quick.
 | |
|
| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| if it wasnt for the fact the idiots running meth labs bring their kids to work or put them in populated areas, id say all clear for testing of LGBs by the airforce. i bet a methlab would make a movie worthy explosion.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
|
TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL |  You just have to look official
| |
|
| 
Bobcat
1.20.09 - The End of an Error
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: You just have to look official said by TechieZero :Get a step Van or truck, white preferably. Spray paint it to look like a Telco contracting company. Show up in work clothes and a clipboard...who is gonna question that? That's right. We had people stealing aluminum railings from highway bridges. Lots of cars driving by. The thieves even wore safety vests! | |
|
| 
GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
edit:
September 10th, @11:42AM
| Dead on right. That's how folks who rip off homeowners do it with moving vans that look right so it must be OK. | |
|
MemphisPCGuy
Senior Systems Engineer
Premium
join:2004-05-09
Memphis, TN | Whats suspicious? ... if I saw a bunch of guys with welders and saws cutting up a tower I would think they were supposed to be there. | |
|
| 
aciddrink
join:2000-08-26
Kailua, HI | Re: Whats suspicious? I have to agree with you there. If I saw a bunch of workers doing what seems ordinary, I'd move on with my life and not think twice. | |
|
| | 
BillTager
join:2000-09-20
Charlotte, NC
| Re: Whats suspicious? said by the article :
Police believe the thieves threw cables over the guidelines of the tower and yanked it down with a truck.
That might raise a little suspicion, no?
--
Praise be to my Cadillac | |
|
| | | towerdave
join:2002-01-16
O Fallon, IL | Re: Whats suspicious? At night?
In an area that mainly is visited by 4 wheelers?
I doubt anyone even was in the area until the next day.
TD | |
|
| | | |
| |
n1zuk
This Space Available
Premium
join:2001-10-24
South Burlington, VT | Does it make a sound? If a tower falls in a forest, and nobody hears it, does it make a sound? | |
|
| |
| |
120 Foot Wireless Tower Stolen
If I were taking it down to get it off my newly acquired land(for example), it would come down the fastest, cheapest way possible 
