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AT&T, Verizon Try to Kill White Space Broadband
And in the Process The Potential of Unlicensed Bands
Public Knowledge this week is levying some hard criticism at a new Republican bill the group says would forbid the FCC from allocating any more 'unlicensed' spectrum for WiFi, baby monitors, Bluetooth and other uses (or White Space broadband) unless they give wireless companies the opportunity to buy exclusive licenses first. It's a bill that appears to have been drafted by companies like Fox, AT&T and Verizon, with the intent of potentially killing off White Space broadband technology before it could act as a competitive threat to both wireless broadband and traditional video operations. Says PK's Harold Feld over at his Wet Machine blog:
quote:
Despite the obvious reliance on unlicensed spectrum by Americans every day in the form of everything from wifi to baby monitors to RFID, the current mania for spectrum auction revenues combined with lobbying from companies opposed to the TV white space has put the future of unlicensed spectrum at risk. This is particularly true under the discussion draft circulated by House Republicans last week. That draft would require that before the FCC could allocate any new spectrum for unlicensed use, it would first have to have an auction that would allow companies to buy the spectrum for exclusive use. Only if everyone collectively outbid AT&T or Verizon for unlicensed would the spectrum go to unlicensed use.
Since AT&T and Verizon already dominate auctions with bottomless wallets, they'd nab the spectrum and potentially squat on it, eliminating its potential on numerous fronts. Uncle Sam likely is engaged in a combination of doing what AT&T and Verizon want, and trying to push Google into the role of bidder to try and jack up the money made from auctions. Stacey Higginbotham at GigaOM notes how the bill goes well beyond just impacting White Space broadband. Ars Technica also has a good piece on the issue. Public Knowledge is launching an action alert here for those against the bill.
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FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

White Space spectrum a bad idea; but this bill is too

The whole FCC approval of White Space spectrum for unlicensed use was an abortion from the get go and use of it will cause interference to OTA TV in much of the populated sections of the US. But this bill is not a solution. It takes away from the FCC the authority to intelligently manage spectrum(something that should be the FCCs only real purpose) and gives it over to those lobbying Congress.

P.S.>> unfortunately the FCC has shown they don't know how to intelligently manage anything - hence the interference by Congress in the FCC's key reason for existing.

Iknowalot
@rima-tde.net

Iknowalot

Anon

Re: White Space spectrum a bad idea; but this bill is too

Nope, you just don´t know what is available in technology.
You should know, being from Fort Bliss.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

3 edits

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: White Space spectrum a bad idea; but this bill is too

said by Iknowalot :

Nope, you just don´t know what is available in technology.
You should know, being from Fort Bliss.

»www.nab.org/xert/scitech ··· 2011.pdf
»www.radioworld.com/tabid ··· Id=23767
»www.tvweek.com/news/2007 ··· s_to.php
»www.fiercebroadbandwirel ··· 11-05-30
»www.nab.org/documents/ne ··· mony.pdf
»www.commlawcenter.com/20 ··· oms.html

BBR news item addresses interference issue:
»White Space Broadband Takes A Step Forward
However the development of the technology, despite support from Google, Dell, HP, Microsoft and others, has been at a glacial pace. Part of that is due to the concern that the technology will cause interference with traditional television, and development of systems to prevent it.
en103
join:2011-05-02

en103

Member

Re: White Space spectrum a bad idea; but this bill is too

Not all 'Whitespace' is the 700MHz band, but as in the blog, contains WiFi (2.4/3.6/5GHz), Bluetooth (2.4GHz), house phones - 900MHz/2.4GHz/5.8GHz)

At some point, once all usable spectrum is 'licensed', items like Bluetooth or WiFi will become scarce or expensive.

contrary
@bellsouth.net

contrary to FFH5

Anon

to FFH5
Quoting broadcaster friendly press as proof that users of tv white space will interfere with OTA tv is not very scientific.
For every one of those I could quote 10 references of a TVWS trial in the US, EU or Asia where there is no interference with OTA TV.
BTW. The US military is currently a user of TVWS under a waiver!
Kamus
join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

Kamus to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

P.S.>> unfortunately the FCC has shown they don't know how to intelligently manage anything - hence the interference by Congress in the FCC's key reason for existing.

So let's bring in the experts at congress to fix the FCC's incompetence, they know what they're doing right?

And better yet, let's bring in the expert ECOMCON claiming this will cause interference with OTA with out a shred of evidence.
I've always thought your comments on any topic were a joke, but you're really trying hard to convince us you're nothing but a troll.

You can't make statements like those and expect people to take you seriously.

asdfdfdfdfdf
@myvzw.com

asdfdfdfdfdf to FFH5

Anon

to FFH5
Even when you agree with a post you can't catch a break:)

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 recommendation

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: White Space spectrum a bad idea; but this bill is too

said by asdfdfdfdfdf :

Even when you agree with a post you can't catch a break:)

Even if I said the sun rises in the east, there is a core group here at BBR that would attack my post. MEH!!
Kamus
join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

Kamus

Member

Re: White Space spectrum a bad idea; but this bill is too

said by FFH5:

Even if I said the sun rises in the east, there is a core group here at BBR that would attack my post. MEH!!

A core group? that makes it sound like we're a minority. You need to pay more attention, hehe.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

said by asdfdfdfdfdf :

Even when you agree with a post you can't catch a break:)

Even if I said the sun rises in the east, there is a core group here at BBR that would attack my post. MEH!!

They attack the content of your posts, not you.
viperlmw
Premium Member
join:2005-01-25

viperlmw

Premium Member

Re: White Space spectrum a bad idea; but this bill is too

said by sonicmerlin:

said by FFH5:

said by asdfdfdfdfdf :

Even when you agree with a post you can't catch a break:)

Even if I said the sun rises in the east, there is a core group here at BBR that would attack my post. MEH!!

They attack the content of your posts, not you.

I would have to agree with this last post, as I suspect many folks like myself have used the 'ignore' button for that user, and a couple of others.
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

gaforces (banned)

Member

Elimination of competition

Get rid of any kind of free public communications/content so our only choices are to pay, pay, and pay more.
Were halfway to being corporatocracy ... »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co ··· atocracy

Corporatocracy, in social theories that focus on conflicts and opposing interests within society, denotes a system of government that serves the interest of, and may be run by, corporations and involves ties between government and business. Where corporations, conglomerates, and/or government entities with private components, control the direction and governance of a country, including carrying out economic planning notwithstanding the 'free market' label.

JasonOD
@comcast.net

JasonOD

Anon

Re: Elimination of competition

Give me a break with the 'corporatism', you act as if we're all being groomed to be just a bunch of cattle being milked by corporate overlords. In economics, the private sector almost without exception produces better, cheaper, and more efficient results than government can, period.
ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

1 recommendation

ISurfTooMuch

Member

Re: Elimination of competition

Did you even read the article summary? This isn't about government programs; it's about keeping the FCC from allocating any more spectrum for free, public use. If something like this had been in effect, say, 30 years ago, we wouldn't have cordless phones, Bluetooth, or wi-fi, to name only a few things.

Lark3po
Premium Member
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL

Lark3po

Premium Member

Re: Elimination of competition

said by ISurfTooMuch:

Did you even read the article summary? This isn't about government programs; it's about keeping the FCC from allocating any more spectrum for free, public use. If something like this had been in effect, say, 30 years ago, we wouldn't have cordless phones, Bluetooth, or wi-fi, to name only a few things.

+1

Twaddle
@sbcglobal.net

Twaddle

Anon

Re: Elimination of competition

+1

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium Member
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs

1 recommendation

N3OGH to ISurfTooMuch

Premium Member

to ISurfTooMuch
But, it's not about reading the article or the actual issue any more. It's all about spouting the latest talking points drivel we're all fed by our Demi-god pseudo pundits.

If you're right leaning or "conservative" it's "government employees in unions are destroying the country" and "the private sector does everything better, all the time".

If you're left leaning or "liberal" it's "government is the fix for everything" and "Wall street FAT CATS are destroying the country with their tax write offs for corporate jets and inflated salaries".

Both sides use scare tactics and FUD to try and push their point.

The real victim is reason.

Bottom line here is the usable RF spectrum is considered to be public asset. Meaning it should be deployed in a fashion that best serves the overall greater good. Whether this greater good comes from auctioning that spectrum off to fill the nations depleted coffers, or expanding the amount of bandwidth open for unlicensed devices should be a decision that is made with the good of the PEOPLE in mind. Not corporations.

Given the proliferation of unlicensed wireless devices in our daily lives (WiFi, Bluetooth, cordless phones, wireless cameras, etc) it makes sense to leave some of this spectrum open for the tinkerers & innovators out there to come up with the next amazing gadget that will change our lives in some way. Auctioning all of it to the highest bidder just to they can sit on it only stifles innovation & competition.

Pretty un American, IMHO..
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin

Member

Re: Elimination of competition

said by N3OGH:

If you're left leaning or "liberal" it's "government is the fix for everything" and "Wall street FAT CATS are destroying the country with their tax write offs for corporate jets and inflated salaries".

Both sides use scare tactics and FUD to try and push their point.

The real victim is reason.

Your attempt at false equivalence falls on deaf ears. If you can't see how Wall Street and large corporations in general are tearing apart the fabric of US government and society then you're willfully blinding yourself to the obvious.

I don't recall ANY liberals screaming that government is the "fix for everything". Nor do I see the left-wing equivalent of the neo con right's massive propaganda arm deploying its tendrils into every facet of society. Whether it's Rupert Murdoch, the consolidation of news media ownership, the lobbying of government, or Citizens United, I certainly don't see any large group fighting for "the left", or whatever delusional omnipotent force you ascribe to what is by international political standards "centrists".

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium Member
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs

N3OGH

Premium Member

Re: Elimination of competition

Thank you for making my point.....
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Sammer to sonicmerlin

Member

to sonicmerlin
said by sonicmerlin:

Your attempt at false equivalence falls on deaf ears. If you can't see how Wall Street and large corporations in general are tearing apart the fabric of US government and society then you're willfully blinding yourself to the obvious.

I don't recall ANY liberals screaming that government is the "fix for everything". Nor do I see the left-wing equivalent of the neo con right's massive propaganda arm deploying its tendrils into every facet of society. Whether it's Rupert Murdoch, the consolidation of news media ownership, the lobbying of government, or Citizens United, I certainly don't see any large group fighting for "the left", or whatever delusional omnipotent force you ascribe to what is by international political standards "centrists".

You seem to be unaware of the left wing groups funded by George Soros and his followers who want to take down our currency and society through unsustainable government spending. Their propaganda arm is every bit the equal of the neo con's.

JasonOD
@comcast.net

JasonOD to ISurfTooMuch

Anon

to ISurfTooMuch
Yes I read the article, I was replying to the OT post.

Scatcatpdx
Fur It Up
join:2007-06-22
Portland, OR

Scatcatpdx to ISurfTooMuch

Member

to ISurfTooMuch
and the FCC is not part of government? Now that's new, besides nothing free.
ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

ISurfTooMuch

Member

Re: Elimination of competition

said by Scatcatpdx:

and the FCC is not part of government? Now that's new, besides nothing free.

Nothing free? Um, last time I checked, the airwaves were already ours. The government, in the form of the FCC, is supposed to administer them for the public benefit, not sell them to the highest bidder. They don't belong to AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, Clear Channel, or any of these other corporations; they belong to the United States public.

Scatcatpdx
Fur It Up
join:2007-06-22
Portland, OR

Scatcatpdx

Member

Re: Elimination of competition

Try to set up you own unlicensed pirate radio station and see how fay your argument gets.

Public ownership is a fallacy; someday has to owns it beside the argument is allocation of the spectrum not you red herring argument.
ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

ISurfTooMuch

Member

Re: Elimination of competition

I was replying to your "nothing free" statement. My reading of that is that you're saying that we shouldn't expect to get free, unlicensed spectrum. Why not? It's ours to begin with. Why should the wireless companies get first dibs on it anyway? There are plenty of examples of uses of unlicensed spectrum, including CB radio, baby monitors, FRS, cordless phones, garage door openers, Bluetooth, and wi-fi, to name a few. Services like these shouldn't be relegated to the scraps of leftover spectrum the wireless industry doesn't want.
Kamus
join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

Kamus to JasonOD

Member

to JasonOD
said by JasonOD :

Give me a break with the 'corporatism', you act as if we're all being groomed to be just a bunch of cattle being milked by corporate overlords. In economics, the private sector almost without exception produces better, cheaper, and more efficient results than government can, period.

Guess you don't want a garage opener or a microwave oven.
If we had it your way, we'd have to pay a monthly fee to microwave a certain amount of food to our "corporate overlords".

Let's get rid of public spaces next, and have local parks sold to the highest bidder too, sounds like a great idea.
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

gaforces (banned)

Member

Re: Elimination of competition

I'm sorry but you've gone over your garage door opening allotment, it'll be 29.95 for every extra opening and closing of your garage door ...

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium Member
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs

N3OGH to Kamus

Premium Member

to Kamus
Heck, you kidding me?

I'm surprised Central Park hasn't become the "Verizon Mid Town Green Zone", and the AT&T logo isn't festooned on the side of the Capitol Dome.

Next thing you know, someone will get the idea to name a subway station after a company.

Oh, wait.....

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT ··· station)

OK everyone on the train to the AT&T Station so we can go see Citizens Bank Park, Lincoln Financial Field (where you can choose between the "Pepsi" gate or "Verizon" gate) or The Core States, First Union, Wachovia Wells Fargo (guess next name here) Center!

We can all go back up town in a Septa bus that looks like a giant loaf of stroehmann bread.

What makes you think they're coming to take away public spaces? I mean, we have politicians of the highest moral character running the country!
sandman_1
join:2011-04-23
11111

1 recommendation

sandman_1 to JasonOD

Member

to JasonOD
said by JasonOD :

In economics, the private sector almost without exception produces better, cheaper, and more efficient results than government can, period.

Also as history has shown, they will exploit people if given the chance, hence the adoption of Antitrust law and workplace laws. That and corporations have more money to throw at politicians than the citizens do. Do you really think you can have your representatives ear when corporations are throwing millions of dollars around? That is why people think corporations run our country. I personally believe it to and to say that our country isn't run by the rich, wealthy, and powerful is just being gullible.

JasonOD
@comcast.net

JasonOD

Anon

Re: Elimination of competition

Sure, there's bad apples in the corporate world, and they have a tendency not to last. Don't forget, corporations and businesses of all sizes promote and pay real wages to millions of people. This is what really influences society, government not so much.
ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

ISurfTooMuch

Member

Re: Elimination of competition

said by JasonOD :

Sure, there's bad apples in the corporate world, and they have a tendency not to last. Don't forget, corporations and businesses of all sizes promote and pay real wages to millions of people. This is what really influences society, government not so much.

Actually, the old AT&T was a very bad apple, and it lasted for a long time, until it was broken up by a lawsuit. And if you've never had the "pleasure" of dealing with the phone company in the bad old days, then you can't understand the true genius of those Lilly Tomlin sketches. Ma Bell was arrogant, they charged an arm and a leg for service, and they had complete control of every aspect of your phone line. If you wanted a new extension, you had to call them. If you wanted a new phone, you had to get it from them. If you wanted an answering machine, well, you likely couldn't have one because it wasn't approved equipment. Hell, you couldn't even install a longer phone cable without their permission, and, if you did and got caught, your service could be shut off. Didn't like their rules? Tough, they had a monopoly.
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

gaforces (banned) to JasonOD

Member

to JasonOD
The combination of govt and corp, small business with competing interests have made a mockery of our policy on communications. Its holding us back from world competition in the 21st century. Data is data, not text, voice, video and whatever else they want restriction or freedoms to triple dip charging more money to pay for more executives and bonus.
It's not sustainable to charge more and more without income increase, which we are not getting.
We need one policy for data to put dumpsters full of govt regulations to the curb that are strangling the industry(s.)
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

jjeffeory to JasonOD

Member

to JasonOD
That's what it looks like from where I'm sitting. Fascism, corporatism, uh yea....

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena

Premium Member

Big surprise...

The Republicans are involved in this. Wow, what a big surprise that is.

•••••

anon6
@comcast.net

anon6

Anon

no white space broadband?

so we won't be seeing white space broadband now?
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

?

Ya think AT&T and Verrizon want unlicened spectrum to help make their $$ PAID $$ licensed bandwidth worth 1/20th what they paid for it?!?

That's the potential if a company such as Google or Microsoft got ahold of 400 or 700 mhz spectrum that works better than 900-2000mhz. Those coveted spots have much better signal gain (and penetration of solid objects such as BUILDINGS) per amplified watt than cellular. That's why ANALOG cellular & Television sigals were on those frequencies.

Scatcatpdx
Fur It Up
join:2007-06-22
Portland, OR

Scatcatpdx

Member

Regulate equipment not policy

Disregarding the typical DSL Report red herring of corporate fear mongering and promoting socialized Internet, the solutions is simple.

The FCC can only allot any spectrum by equipment class and prohibit any exclusive sales of the spectrum to any one company or to favor one policy over another.

In a FCC can only regulate the RF emissions to the spectrum and not by policy like net neutrality.