site Search:


 
   
story category
Judge Denies AT&T Motion To Dismiss Verizon Ads
Though there will be another round of legal debate in December...
by Karl Bode Thursday 19-Nov-2009 tags: business · wireless
Tipped by Jovi See Profile
After spending the last week or so taking pot shots at each other, AT&T and Verizon met in court yesterday to do legal battle over Verizon's latest wireless ads, which criticize AT&T's 3G network coverage and performance. AT&T had complained to the courts that the 3G coverage maps (clearly labeled as such) in the ads could confuse customers into thinking customers didn't get voice and EDGE coverage in non-3G markets. The Judge overseeing the case has not surprisingly denied AT&T's request to have the ads pulled, but has set a December 16 date to hear further arguments in the case.

Of course by the time this is settled, the "damage" to AT&T will already have been done -- made worse in this case by all the extra attention AT&T's suit brought to Verizon's ads, and in turn AT&T's network coverage. To try and make up some ground, AT&T has launched a new series of ads featuring Luke Wilson, proclaiming rather vaguely that AT&T offers "the best 3G experience." Surely there's some AT&T customers who'd like to take AT&T to task on that claim after the last year's worth of iPhone connectivity issues, belated MMS functionality and other problems?

At this point, AT&T's probably better off just giving those advertising and legal fees to their network engineers, who are in the field busily trying to upgrade the network and migrating markets to 850MHz.

view: topics flat text 
Post a:

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Frivolous Lawsuit

AT&T should be made to pay Verizon's legal fees. This lawsuit is completely and totally without any merit.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!

footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO

Re: Frivolous Lawsuit

said by pnh102:

AT&T should be made to pay Verizon's legal fees. This lawsuit is completely and totally without any merit.
Have you seen the commercial with the elves? "Good luck browsing the web with that one", they say while looking at an AT&T device. It's a blatant lie, designed to make people think only Verizon can deliver the internet to your wireless device.
--
The goggles! They do nothing! - McBain

NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: Frivolous Lawsuit

said by footballdude:

said by pnh102:

AT&T should be made to pay Verizon's legal fees. This lawsuit is completely and totally without any merit.
Have you seen the commercial with the elves? "Good luck browsing the web with that one", they say while looking at an AT&T device. It's a blatant lie, designed to make people think only Verizon can deliver the internet to your wireless device.
Does the lawsuit have anything to do with that particular ad? Was the infamous 3G map in the commercial?

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

Re: Frivolous Lawsuit

said by NOCTech75:

Does the lawsuit have anything to do with that particular ad? Was the infamous 3G map in the commercial?
Yes

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw9oNBrmv0g
pandora
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Google Voice
·Comcast
·ooma
·Future Nine Corp..

Re: Frivolous Lawsuit

said by cdru:

said by NOCTech75:

Does the lawsuit have anything to do with that particular ad? Was the infamous 3G map in the commercial?
Yes

(youtube clip)
If the 3G coverage maps are accurate, I don't see any problem with the Verizon commercials.

I'm a former AT&T customer who migrated to Sprint. My prior use of the AT&T internet network was EDGE and it was awful compared to the 3G on Sprint. If AT&T thinks EDGE is great internet coverage, they are IMO sadly mistaken.

The maps clearly indicate 3G internet coverage, and the comments by the elves are about internet coverage. Nothing appears misleading in the commercials to me. They are about internet 3G coverage.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

Re: Frivolous Lawsuit

AT&T's complaint is that they feel that Verizon is telling customers that they won't have data coverage or be able to make calls in the non-blue areas. Yes the fine print says otherwise, but Verizon is playing up with the collective ignorance of the public that doesn't know the difference between GPRS, Edge, 3G or LTE.

NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: Frivolous Lawsuit

said by cdru:

AT&T's complaint is that they feel that Verizon is telling customers that they won't have data coverage or be able to make calls in the non-blue areas. Yes the fine print says otherwise, but Verizon is playing up with the collective ignorance of the public that doesn't know the difference between GPRS, Edge, 3G or LTE.
Yes because AT&T never does any of that with their advertising.

Commercial with the elves is legit, that has been shown to be true in court. AT&T should resolve their issues, not try to smash them down as if they don't exist.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:33
Host:
Time Warner Intern..
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
Have you seen the commercial with the elves? "Good luck browsing the web with that one", they say while looking at an AT&T device. It's a blatant lie, designed to make people think only Verizon can deliver the internet to your wireless device.
I spent the other night eating at a french restaurant, in full view of the George Washington Bridge, unable to browse the Internet because AT&T's network couldn't handle it. In certain markets, that claim is perfectly true. Fix the problems.
void_of_Ligh

join:2005-12-27
Nacogdoches, TX

Re: Frivolous Lawsuit

My GF has an Iphone. I can't count the number of times she not only can't get online but can't even make a phone call.

I moved 50 company phones from AT&T last year and couldn't be happier. They never even attempted to keep our business when I called to authorize the switch.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: Frivolous Lawsuit

Yup, well, its only 50 lines... its better for them to have a customer leave than to have a continuously P.O.'d customer, IMO.

I have AT&T service in CA that works, but I don't have an iPhone.
--
Canada = Hollywood North

Rob
In Deo speramus.
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3
said by Karl Bode See ProfileI spent the other night eating at a french restaurant, in full view of the George Washington Bridge, unable to browse the Internet because AT&T's network couldn't handle it. In certain markets, that claim is perfectly true. Fix the problems.
[/BQUOTE :


Which is why I am enjoying all of this. I want my 3G service to work anywhere in the U.S., since according to AT&T I have a national package.
--
CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12
said by Karl Bode:

Have you seen the commercial with the elves? "Good luck browsing the web with that one", they say while looking at an AT&T device. It's a blatant lie, designed to make people think only Verizon can deliver the internet to your wireless device.
I spent the other night eating at a french restaurant, in full view of the George Washington Bridge, unable to browse the Internet because AT&T's network couldn't handle it. In certain markets, that claim is perfectly true. Fix the problems.
I recently flew from North Carolina to Utah with 2 x iPhones and a Verizon Data Card. Even on layovers in larger cities like Dallas, Verizon had coverage and worked flawlessly while our iPhones sputtered along, dropping calls and pulling up webpages at a glacial speed.

I think AT&T's savior from these complaints is going to be 850MHz.
--
trafficcloak.com - pptp/sstp vpn services
vincebusam

join:2008-11-14
Los Angeles, CA

Re: Frivolous Lawsuit

Last time I was in an area covered by the "red" map but not the "blue" map, AT&T's 2G speeds were faster than Verizon's 3G speeds. Does the map account for that?

RRedline
Rated R
Premium
join:2002-05-15
Williamsport, PA

Re: Frivolous Lawsuit

said by vincebusam:

Last time I was in an area covered by the "red" map but not the "blue" map, AT&T's 2G speeds were faster than Verizon's 3G speeds. Does the map account for that?
That is the exception and not the norm. We already know that AT&T provides the best service in many areas. The point is that they provide HORRIBLE service in a large portion of the country while they advertise that they have the fastest and best 3G network. That claim is true only if you cherry-pick the few areas where they are on top of their network.
--
One nation, under Zod!

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12

Re: Frivolous Lawsuit

said by RRedline:

said by vincebusam:

Last time I was in an area covered by the "red" map but not the "blue" map, AT&T's 2G speeds were faster than Verizon's 3G speeds. Does the map account for that?
That is the exception and not the norm. We already know that AT&T provides the best service in many areas. The point is that they provide HORRIBLE service in a large portion of the country while they advertise that they have the fastest and best 3G network. That claim is true only if you cherry-pick the few areas where they are on top of their network.
He is in Southern California, which has the 850MHz overlay, thus isn't subject to the capacity issues the rest of the country is. So you are correct, he is the exception, not the norm.

If you look at posts like his, most people who say they have good AT&T service and subpar Verizon service tend to be in Southern California or one of the few areas that have had the 850MHz spectrum turned on.
--
trafficcloak.com - pptp/sstp vpn services

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
said by footballdude:

Have you seen the commercial with the elves? "Good luck browsing the web with that one", they say while looking at an AT&T device. It's a blatant lie, designed to make people think only Verizon can deliver the internet to your wireless device.
I've seen all of the ads. I'm also an AT&T subscriber. However, I do not have data service on any of our phones.

But I have to respectfully disagree that the "Good luck browsing the web with that one" claim is a "blatant lie." AT&T's iPhone problems are well documented facts. But to be fair to AT&T, I can't say I know anything about any network issues with AT&T's other smart phones.

But the resolution to this is clear. AT&T needs to grab some shovels and build out more 3G service. Now.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!

RRedline
Rated R
Premium
join:2002-05-15
Williamsport, PA
said by footballdude:

Have you seen the commercial with the elves? "Good luck browsing the web with that one", they say while looking at an AT&T device. It's a blatant lie, designed to make people think only Verizon can deliver the internet to your wireless device.
There are many areas where EDGE on AT&T is effectively 0 kbps. I've run speed tests in some places where my DL and/or UL speed was 0.

AT&T should be spending their money on upgrades. It is really, really sad that they didn't seem to care much until people started to speak out about how poor their data services really are.

Even Google Maps is painful on EDGE at times. I don't doubt that their 3G is stellar in many places, but if you aren't in one of those places (and you probably aren't!), you are SOL.

Using AT&T logic, if you provide the most super ridiculously fast data speeds in just one city, you have "the world's most super ridiculously fast service." I'm glad Verizon struck a nerve. The truth really does hurt sometimes.
--
One nation, under Zod!

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12

Re: Frivolous Lawsuit

said by RRedline:

Even Google Maps is painful on EDGE at times. I don't doubt that their 3G is stellar in many places, but if you aren't in one of those places (and you probably aren't!), you are SOL.
That is a very good way to expose whether your area is overloaded or not. Load up Google Maps on your iPhone w/ GPS enabled and tell it to follow you while driving down the interstate. Half the time the maps will load quite speedily, but the other half (especially on Edge) they simply never will.
--
trafficcloak.com - pptp/sstp vpn services

scavio
Premium
join:2001-07-14
Melmac
Do you think that is worse than the more bars everywhere ads like this one? If you based your opinions on these ads, you would think that AT&T is the only carrier that works indoors. For example:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGiQmlpX···ain-area

FastiBook

join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA
I agree, even in non 3G area or 3G turned off it's still pretty fast. Vzw needs to stop trying to pretend att has less coverage.

- A
--
LETS GO METS!

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5

AT&T lost this battle

AT&T lost this battle in court and in the marketplace. Even if AT&T eventually wins in court down the road, the damage has already been done. The court's refusal of an injunction means AT&T lost this battle. By the time a court rules, the ads will be off the air anyway.

gigahurtz
Premium
join:2001-10-20
Palm Coast, FL
Reviews:
·Bright House

What a waste of money..

I am an AT&T customer and rather than spending money on a "lawsuit" to have Verizon remove these ads, why doesn't AT&T focus on improving their network. Granted, the legal fees are only going to pay for a very small portion of an upgrade but this lawsuit is completely ridiculous. The commercials clearly state 3G coverage and there is nothing wrong with it. Rather than fighting in this in the courts, fight it in the real world and IMPROVE YOUR NETWORK!

downandout

@rr.com

Re: What a waste of money..

They gave Verizon exactly what they wanted. I have spent more time watching these commercials on the web, because of the publicity of this lawsuit. Every article points to another commercial I haven't yet seen. Thanks.

exocet_cm
I am the law - Judge Dredd
Premium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:2

Re: What a waste of money..�

said by downandout :

They gave Verizon exactly what they wanted. I have spent more time watching these commercials on the web, because of the publicity of this lawsuit. Every article points to another commercial I haven't yet seen. Thanks.
I had to watch the ads online on my laptop because I couldn't pull em up on my AT&T Blackberry. Youtube timed out.�
stridr69

join:2003-05-19
San Luis Obispo, CA

Re: What a waste of money..

hahahahaha!

Now THAT'S funny!
Gotta love the "Death Star".

inaquest

@comcast.net

love iphone / hate att

at&t should stop spending its money on lawsuits and start spending it bolstering their reliabilty. i love my iphone. but i HATE at&t. i can't tell you the number of dropped calls, inability to place calls, and untimely missed call notices and voicemail notices i have suffered. it is horrible. at&t should be ashamed.
glinc

join:2009-04-07
New York, NY

Re: love iphone / hate att

I second this. If they improve their network instead of wasting money in lawsuits then it makes competition wayyyy better by forcing other carriers to spend even more money.

When VZW keeps on seeing that all at&t can do is throw lawsuits, they will just keep on bringing the truth out.

lordpuffer
Comfortably Numb
Premium
join:2004-09-19
Rio Rancho, NM
kudos:1

I Just Love It!

I hate AT&T with a passion....I hope they lose mucho bukaroos over this. I use T-Mobile, however, GO GET'EM Verizon!
--
UCLA Only On A Clear Day-Class of '81
theeinstein
Premium
join:2003-07-31
Fernandina Beach, FL

Re: I Just Love It!

Amen!!! Get'em VZW... It is disgusting that because of a truthful ad they clog the court system up with garbage!!.. Makes me want to vomit!
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

next option: spend money on network

now at&t can spend the money where it's supposed to.. in UPGRADING THE NETWORK. there is absolutely no reason to waste it on lawyers anymore. do what you're supposed to do with the money. in 5 years at&t could have a better network than Verizon if it wanted to.. just SPEND THE FRIGGEN MONEY to make it a reality!!

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

AT&T CEO on Bandwidth (2007): "It doesn't concern me."

AT&T got caught unprepared and unconcerned about adding iPhone users to its last-generation network. "It doesn’t concern me," said Randall Stephenson, AT&T's CEO in a 2007 interview along side Apple's Steve Jobs. AT&T continues its let-them-eat-cake strategy by hanging on to it's 2G-2.5G-3G technologies even though 4G is available and bandwidth demand is doubling every 9 months or so.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Test your Broadband connection today! -- »measurementlab.net/

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

Adam Lynn lays out the Case

Adam Lynn of Free Press lays out the AT&T case, concluding:
AT&T’s behavior shows a clear pattern: Sign up as many iPhone customers as possible and worry about their experience later, to the extent that AT&T worried about it at all.

What should happen now? AT&T needs to fix the problems, and if it can’t, it should stop signing up new customers and making current customers pay $100 per month until it can provide a network that is true to its advertised capabilities.

--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Test your Broadband connection today! -- »measurementlab.net/

Rob
In Deo speramus.
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3

Re: Adam Lynn lays out the Case

That's what I have been saying! AT&T is MILKING the iPhone for all they have. They aren't going to spend the money they are making on the iPhone to upgrade their network because they know that very soon that iPhone tree will die. And they'll be damned if they don't have money in the bank.
--
CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us

JimIllinois

@mcleodusa.net
All ATT "needs" to do is monitor customer satisfaction and churn.

Plot us on a bell curve, and the vast majority of customers are oblivious to all of this and would recommend ATT to their friends. Only a tiny minority want or need more, more, more.

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

Re: Adam Lynn lays out the Case

said by JimIllinois :

All ATT "needs" to do is monitor customer satisfaction and churn.
I'd agree with you if there wasn't a 2-year term handcuffing customers to the carrier.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Test your Broadband connection today! -- »measurementlab.net/
Kdee

join:2005-08-26
Etobicoke, ON

This blog entry tells it all

»itnerd.wordpress.com/2009/11/19/···eir-own/

Plus it has the Luke Wilson ad in it too. Talk about LAME.

powerspec88
Premium
join:2007-03-11
Lenexa, KS
Reviews:
·SureWest Internet

AT&T's lastest ad.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3PbBmElObI

See 8 replies to this post
cahiatt
Premium
join:2001-03-21
Smyrna, GA

AT&T needs to work on their network and drop the lawsuits

I laugh as in the past I would sometimes get better data speeds on my Iphone by tethering it to my Sprint Touch Pro using WMWiFiRouter on the Touch Pro....

I'm not expecting AT&T to lead the pack on upgrades or do anything other than complain unless they actually HAVE to do something. You have to remember that AT&T for years wouldn't let you get DSL without phone service because it was "technically impossible". That was then, this is now. Nothing will change with them.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5

Reminds me of another cellular ad fight

A few years ago, Bell Mobility got into a slugfest with Rogers Wireless..

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUHb7Ap6ll4
Edward1978

join:2007-07-23
De Soto, IL

Freedom

AT&T can't handle the truth it seems...

kilometers3

join:2007-01-24
Sacramento, CA

Fail

AT&T has gotten worse in my area over the last year. I used to get 700-1000kbps down constantly on my iphone in Northern California during 2008 but but these days I'm lucky to get 200-300kbps. Sometimes I have to wait 30 seconds for a page to load even though it says 3G near my signal. What's even more annoying is when the 3G gets so weak for no reason and then switches back and forth between 3G and Edge while draining my battery. At this location (which has full 3G support) I have to turn off 3G to save battery life. I go to San Francisco every now and then too and man does it get worse over there.

It's really annoying and I'm getting close to the end of my contract. At that point if my service doesn't improve I'll jump ship. I thought that AT&T was saying they would fix these problems with 3G 850MHz and 7.2mbps pushouts but I have not seen these yet at all.

Van
Premium
join:2009-07-08
New Orleans, LA

As you said, Karl...it is shocking

that AT&T took this much offense to the ad and made such a big deal of it.

I am not sure a single person I know cared one bit about the AD or had even seen it until AT&T brought this to court.

Now, everyone sees it, knows it, and is discussing how bad it makes AT&T look

If they had just let it go, would we really even be discussing it? Would so many who have seen it....would they even know about it had the suit not been filed?
Neosum
Premium
join:2000-06-03
Oakland, CA

Re: As you said, Karl...it is shocking

said by Van:

that AT&T took this much offense to the ad and made such a big deal of it.

I am not sure a single person I know cared one bit about the AD or had even seen it until AT&T brought this to court.

Now, everyone sees it, knows it, and is discussing how bad it makes AT&T look

If they had just let it go, would we really even be discussing it? Would so many who have seen it....would they even know about it had the suit not been filed?
They've definitely got people talking about them. I've heard Verizon vs ATT conversations atleast 4 times this week. No mention of sprint or tmobile. It's exposure, whether good or bad. Those who have good service with ATT will stay regardless. I happen to have good service in the bay area so there's no need for me to switch no matter how much bad press ATT's getting. I'm sure others who happen to have good service where they are would feel the same.

no3ginvalley

@rcn.com

booooo att

65million to upgrade bay area and they left out siliconvalley and apple HQ. good going apple! u f-ing idiots

»blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=27433

Ian1234

@ptd.net

"Which lets you talk and surf the web at the same time?"

said by AT&T Commercial :
Which network lets you talk and surf the web at the same time?
This claim is completely bogus! I just got the new Motorola Droid and I can surf the web and talk at the same time. Perhaps AT&T should do a little market research and actually figure out what is happening around them. They will be lucky if Verizon doesn't turn this completely bogus claim around on AT&T during their hearing on Dec. 16th

Friday, 24-May 09:36:33 Terms of Use & Privacy | feedback | contact | Hosting by nac.net - DSL,Hosting & Co-lo
over 13.5 years online © 1999-2013 dslreports.com.