 Jonbo298
join:2004-01-12
Council Bluffs, IA | Holy hell.... I think we all wish we could get that. Though then again, France is about 1/30th the size of the US so its easier to get FTTH to everyone over there then it is over here. | |
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 | 
puzzledCanadian
 from:
KrK 
| Re: Holy hell.... I think lots of DSL reports should take a geography lesson.
90 % of the US population lives in very dense urban centers (Boston to DC corridor), pretty much the same thing SFO to LAX (a little bit less dense.)
The latency of deploying FTTH in the US and CANADA (Canada has 3 major cities where 50 % of the pop lives) has more to do with laziness, greed and inexisting gov regulations....
Go get a geography class ! | |
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Bill
Light Up The Halo
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-09
clubs: | Re: Holy hell.... said by puzzledCanadian :
the same thing SFO to LAX (a little bit less dense.)
I wouldn't call the Central Valley even close to "dense"... | |
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Bellunder
@teksavvy.com | But Canada would charge you more than what the average person earns in a year. Oh yes, and those nasty caps other countries don't have. | |
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HotRodFoto
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Denver, CO | who cares if it's 1/30th, offer it in metro areas. /end | |
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| | bamabrad
join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL | Re: Holy hell.... AMEN! | |
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| qworster
join:2001-11-25
Los Angeles, CA | Paris is as LEAST as densely populated as New York or Los Angeles.
Your density argument does not apply in Paris. | |
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| nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
 ·Comcast
| said by Jonbo298 :.. Though then again, France is about 1/30th the size of the US so its easier to get FTTH to everyone over there then it is over here. no, that's not the reason they are getting this kind of broadband at this kind of price. It's because they have competition.
If being a small area means it's easy to get advanced broadband at low prices, why the hell don't San Francisco, New York, LA and other VERY DENSE cities in the U.S. have fast speeds at low prices?
The same studies that show the U.S. in 15th place or so in broadband have also normalized the data for population density - with few exceptions, there is no correlation between population density and broadband penetration, speed or price.
We have no real competition, so our broadband is going to continue to be more expensive and slower for a long time to come. | |
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| nozzer
join:2004-06-25
Waltham, MA | US is around 2.8m sq miles if alaska is excluded, France is 212K. Not exactly 30 times, more like 12x, with 5x the population. If you look at rural vs city distribution the two are similar. | |
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| | Jonbo298
join:2004-01-12
Council Bluffs, IA
| Re: Holy hell.... said by nozzer :US is around 2.8m sq miles if alaska is excluded, France is 212K. Not exactly 30 times, more like 12x, with 5x the population. If you look at rural vs city distribution the two are similar. I'm sorry I didn't take the time to look up the exact amount  | |
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| | | nozzer
join:2004-06-25
Waltham, MA | Re: Holy hell.... is it really that hard to type the question into Wikipedia before you get your facts wrong? (and you were almost 300% out)  | |
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| | | | Jonbo298
join:2004-01-12
Council Bluffs, IA
| Re: Holy hell.... said by nozzer :is it really that hard to type the question into Wikipedia before you get your facts wrong? (and you were almost 300% out) Yes, it is. I'm too lazy to do research for that | |
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| | jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
USA | Thank you. I thought 30x was a bit much. France is twice the size of Colorado. There are many, many rural areas. Just like the U.S. It's all about competition. | |
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| | ejrobinson
Premium
join:2003-05-16
Miami Beach, FL
 ·magicjack.com
| Bear in mind that a large part of the usa in virtually unhabited, like most of nevada, arizona, montana, etc. It it more meaningful to compare populations within accessible range of anything but dial-up. France also has significant areas with few people, such as the alps, by the way.
-er | |
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| wolfhouse
join:2001-03-01
Union City, NJ | Population density is comparable to North Carolina though. The internet network is not even close. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
 ·AT&T Southwest
| Paris is a huge city and being umpteen whoknows how many centuries old, is not exactly an example of urban planning. In fact, it's downright crazy.
Yet, somehow, simply by the Government enforcing laws promoting competition (not enforcing monopolies like they do here) the result has been, well, stunning. The incumbents here complain it can't be done and that it's too expensive. The competition in urban cities worldwide like Paris, Japan, Korea, etc all prove otherwise. Competition is good... you just have to protect it in it's early stages from the giants who move to crush it, and allow the companies to get up and running and get well established, and then the fun begins!
Too bad, this is what would of happened here if the 1996 Telecommunications Act had been enforced and lobbyists hadn't killed it.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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| | ejrobinson
Premium
join:2003-05-16
Miami Beach, FL
·magicjack.com
| Re: Holy hell.... The key to the rampant competition is that a single, non-political commission is in charge of regulation. In the usa there are the state utility commissions, all more or less politicized.
Further, france was a 3rd world country as regards phone service until the 1970s, when the whole system was rebuilt, so that the whole country is covered with recently laid telephone cables.
-er | |
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| ejrobinson
Premium
join:2003-05-16
Miami Beach, FL | France is 1/5th the size of the usa. I suggest you learn some geography. Its population is over 60 million.
-er | |
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macguy
join:2007-08-18
Bloomfield, NJ | This is sad Even if we could get speeds like the on fiber here, we'd pay triple or more for it.
Maybe that's because it's harder to lay fiber here. But for some reason I just don't believe that. | |
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lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL | Score one for France The US ILECs are moaning in their graves, if you believe in precognition. | |
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Realtech23
Premium
join:2006-03-27
Olean, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
| Bottom Line It does Not cost that much for the US to do something like this. US companies are greedy. I've worked for Time Warner and Adelphia. I have seen it first hand, but then again any consumer can figure that out. Only way something like this can be "unlocked" for the public and stop these price hikes would be for a company to be bold enough to off the speeds of the best for prices that are more affordable. It is getting to the point where a T1 line cost as much as some internet packages? are you kidding me. Who has the Balls to step up and do something real in the US? I mean if you really wanna make something happen people could always have one or 2 people in a block get service then everyone else gets routers and use them as access points and split the bill that way maybe all the telco's will start giving the consumer a break. Wait i forgot who i was talking about. The greediest economy in the world.
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I am the Coyote | |
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Rhanlav
Dook?
join:2005-01-28
Jacksonville, FL | Sign me up! I totally need to learn how to say "Take me to your Internet Service Providers" in French. I'll even wear a beret if it'll get me internet speeds at that price. | |
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| | jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
USA
| Re: Sign me up! said by Jeffrey :said by Rhanlav :I totally need to learn how to say "Take me to your Internet Service Providers" in French. I'll even wear a beret if it'll get me internet speeds at that price. Because I'm rusty with my French, and because ISP I don't believe has any literal translation, the best I could come up with courtesy of Google is: "Me porter à votre Internet Service Provider". Gramatically-speaking, it doesn't look right.  said by Jeffrey :said by Rhanlav :I totally need to learn how to say "Take me to your Internet Service Providers" in French. I'll even wear a beret if it'll get me internet speeds at that price. Because I'm rusty with my French, and because ISP I don't believe has any literal translation, the best I could come up with courtesy of Google is: "Me porter à votre Internet Service Provider". Gramatically-speaking, it doesn't look right. And the French would never say " Internet Service Provider"!
They'd have to use some Frenchified termology. Just like they did for the "WWW". There was some God awful long group of words used instead of W-W-W. Eh, they want to protect their languague from ours. | |
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gimme5
join:2002-12-23
Kissimmee, FL
| Re: Sign me up! Yeah, french people wouldn't say Internet Service Provider, that's for sure. We say "fournisseur d'acces internet" which means "Internet access provider", which is not too far from the English equivalent. I don't know what the translation would be for "WWW", I just hear "le web".
Some people have tried to "Frenchify" a few english words. For example, CD-Rom has become "cédérom". E-mail has become "courriel". I don't think those are catching on among the general public though. | |
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| | | ejrobinson
Premium
join:2003-05-16
Miami Beach, FL | French has an acronym for isp; it is fai. They use www, speak of le web, l'internet, etc. Where do you get such silly ideas?
-er | |
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| | ejrobinson
Premium
join:2003-05-16
Miami Beach, FL | In fact, the french has an acronym for isp. It is fai and means internet access provider (fournisseur d'access internet).
-er | |
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gimme5
join:2002-12-23
Kissimmee, FL | "amenez moi a votre fournisseur d'acces internet"
not that it'll help you get that service | |
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| | Rhanlav
Dook?
join:2005-01-28
Jacksonville, FL
·EarthLink
| Re: Sign me up! Aww, but I even know where to get a beret to wear! Oh well, at least I know what I need to say when I get to France. Now all I need is about 3000 miles of fiber optic cable to connect my PC to France.  | |
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| | | ejrobinson
Premium
join:2003-05-16
Miami Beach, FL | Re: Sign me up! Sigh, yet another legend! You won't see many berets today in france, any more than you'll find many americans wearing chaps and boots.
-er | |
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qworster
join:2001-11-25
Los Angeles, CA | Thank the FCC every time you overpay for Cable and Internet! Their corruption (ie: they are bought and paid for by big telco and cable) is the reason why we pay over TWICE what people pay in other countries for better services. | |
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| RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| Re: Thank the FCC every time you overpay for Cable and Internet! said by qworster :Their corruption (ie: they are bought and paid for by big telco and cable) is the reason why we pay over TWICE what people pay in other countries for better services. Not just the FCC, look at some of the posters on this site and how hard they fight ANYONE trying to get a good system built if they are not one of the big commercial boys.
And your post is kind of skewed, most folks here do not lump cable, telco, and and FCC into the same good ole boy system. Remember that cable is supposedly being jerked around (or so say a lot of posts here on DSLR) by the telco/FCC bed time partners?
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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votum76
join:2002-01-29
Matawan, NJ | drool What I'd do for those speeds .... | |
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telcolackey
The Truth? You can't handle the truth
join:2007-04-06
Death Valley, CA | 100Mb for what and to where? How much of the 100Mb is dedicated to their IPTV service?
At what point does the 100Mb hit a Nx100Mb share point? Having a really wide driveway does not make you go faster on the highway. | |
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| Hctim
join:2004-09-12
Denver, CO | Re: 100Mb for what and to where? Very well said | |
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| nozzer
join:2004-06-25
Waltham, MA | I imagine its connected to a much faster backbone. Are you suggesting the French might want to surf US (English speaking) sites mostly. Statistics show otherwise. | |
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doc watson
join:2000-09-18
Canada | Re: France Telecom I just watched a program about this, and because they do not want to disrupt the landscape of the city, it's being run through the sewer system. I believe the show was called Megastructures, or Megacities. Quite a good watch. | |
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dadkins
Merry Whatever
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Symmetrical! 50? 100? Hell, 10 symmetrical would be killer!
WTF?
$40.76 for a tripple play *AND* it includes 50/50? Uhm... HELLO! 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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| macaholic
Premium
join:2003-08-31
Jackson Heights, NY | Re: Symmetrical! you left out "only 50/50" that's considered slow to them...
Ben | |
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LenTerMer
@rr.com
| More fun from the BBR spin "More than 2.6 million households in France now have IPTV service."
Who cares how many people in any nation have IPTV? Isn't TV... TV? If it's coming from an incumbent (or the owner of the plant) then it is irrelevant if it's delivered by the Cable provider or the Fiber provider.
I would be willing to wager that plenty more than 2.6 million households in France ALREADY have access to video services. Competition is always good REGARDLESS OF DELIVERY METHOD. What point was the news poster trying to make? | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: More fun from the BBR spin said by LenTerMer :
What point was the news poster trying to make? That the network is extremely fast and powerful, and gives you massive content, for VERY low prices..... I mean the network would have to be Fiber to deliver such high speed internet AND carry your phone AND carry your TV simultaneously, while as here, companies like AT&T are trying to carry all three on DSL. I think that would be the point.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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Frenchie
@verizon.net | FTTH or FTTB Just Curious:
Are they running fiber right to the apartment or is it fiber to the building with VDSL up the riser? Anyone know? | |
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LilYoda
Feline with squirel personality disorder
Premium
join:2004-09-02
Mountains
| Re: FTTH or FTTB Depends on the city, but I believe Paris is going FTTH when possible.
Overall, in appartment buildings, the homeowner association decides how they want to dispatch in the community.
Paris isn't the only city planning fiber deploympent. Free (Illiad) is planning FTTH where my mom lives. It makes me drool a bit. Not enough for me to move back in with my mom though
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"Money and sex, storage and bandwidth: only too much is ever enough"
Arno Penzias - Former Head of Bell Labs, and Nobel prizewinner | |
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| | ejrobinson
Premium
join:2003-05-16
Miami Beach, FL | Re: FTTH or FTTB No, only free says it will offer ftth, and it is rolling it out very, very slowly. The other major isp's, orange and neuf will offer fttb. Our street was cabled this week by orange.
-er | |
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AeoniAn
join:2007-07-13
·Net Virtua
| DREAM... WAHWAHWAH... Brazil situation: BEST residential speed is 8Mbit/600kbit and is about US$100,00 per month.... without VoIP and without TV. The whole package is about US$220,00 per month... YES, --US$220,00--. INCREDIBLE. And per-capita incomming is, at least, 10x less...
So, we all have to move to Paris! Voilá!
(oh... and HDTV is far from here...)
When I see news like this, I cry.
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Sao Paulo - SP - Brazil - Net-Virtua = VERY HIGH LATENCY!!! | |
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Cjaiceman
join:2004-10-12
Aurora, CO | Re: DREAM... DAMN IT!
*goes to change underwear* | |
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| | crash4419
join:2005-04-04
00000 | And to think the 30/5 package from Cablevision is fast | |
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TaxFundedFTTH
@rr.com
|  Any chance tax money is being used to fund the FTTH?
According to the graph.
US personal tax rate average about 28%.
French personal tax rate average about 50%. | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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tc1uscgret
@wideopenwest.com | And gas is how much??? Big deal. $40 for all that.. that's because they can't afford to drive so they spend more time at home.. You think?  | |
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keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA
 ·WestPAnet Inc.
·WestPAnet Inc. CA..
·Verizon Online DSL
·Vonage
|  Me too!
Shut up.
Guess what, I have 1 GB fiber connection to my house from my ISP. Why, just because my Dad owns an ISP and the fiber ran past my house.
Big deal, should I be on a story because we achieved some amazing 1 GB connection over 20 miles on fiber to the home in Youngsville PA, a very rural location?
Or should I be impressed in french innovation? I read a story yesterday, no not on BBR, that said the US is the leader in the world as far as productivity goes. Now, if I read two stories in the last two days I would come to this conclusion... the people in the US work harder, the french play more on the PC at home, watch more TV, and talk more on the phone?
How about changing the whole "reporting" aspect of BBR and actually not be biased. Get real, BBR is big enough they should be able to have actual stories, maybe even ones that mean something to US. | |
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See 9 replies to this post |
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dasd
@QWEST.NET | LOL Dtas because France lacks king George and does not have to sink billions in a war that was laid on a false pretext plus they might even have tax break to the companies involved with infrastructural projects rather that individuals making billions. | |
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NJALondon
@bulldogdsl.com
| 100mbps France FTTH in Paris is provided by 3 different companies each competeting using their own fibre infrastructure on seperate competing networks. This is the reason for the vicious competition.
The company mentioned in this article is called Free and estimates the cost of passing fibre to evey address in the Greater Paris region to be in the €250 area. To the earlier poster who mentioned about MDU's yes the fibre is being run into the buildings including older structures. All companies are required to collocate and keep buildout work to an absolute minimum. Also most cable is buried rather than strung overhead as it's considered unsightly. | |
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| ejrobinson
Premium
join:2003-05-16
Miami Beach, FL | Re: 100mbps France Only free will offer ftth. The other major isp's will offer fttb. The €250 you site for a building may be correct, but it seems high to me. Individual connections with ftth would cost much more.
-er | |
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smokeonit
join:2003-05-21
Germany
·T-Com
| FTTH in germany t-com offers FTTH called VDSL as 25/50Mbit download and 5/10Mbit upload. available in cities with more than 500k population...
for around €40 too...
if your in a city with ADSL only, t-com has ADSL 2+ there... @ 16/1Mbit max. thoughput... same price... | |
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TheToro
Premium
join:2003-06-05
Atlanta, GA
| Re: FTTH in germany said by smokeonit :t-com offers FTTH called VDSL as 25/50Mbit download and 5/10Mbit upload. available in cities with more than 500k population... for around €40 too... if your in a city with ADSL only, t-com has ADSL 2+ there... @ 16/1Mbit max. thoughput... same price... VDSL and FTTH are different things, FTTH is 100% fiber, and VDSL is probably 80% fiber 20% copper
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDSL
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FTTH | |
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Tsjarlie
@sky.com | Re: FTTH To be fair The ISP in France have a much easier time deploying new technologies.
The majority of homes have a telephone exchange within 1 miie which really helps in my opinion. | |
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| | | ejrobinson
Premium
join:2003-05-16
Miami Beach, FL | Re: FTTH Alas, no, they aren't mostly within a mile, but say 3 miles. Current technology permits adsl as long as you are within 6000 meters (3.72 miles).
-er | |
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Roland_60
@proxad.net
| Fiber in France vs. ADSL standard offerings A few comments about the services : in France, ADSL can be either bundled (i.e. paying France Telecom for the physical phone line + the ISP for the Internet access) or UNbundled (only paying the ISP).
In small places/villages, you can be "lucky" (depends on the operator), and have unbundled Internet access. For example, I live in a small village (about 50 miles North of Paris), with 382 people living there (according to the Mayor's statistics , and I get unbundled with :
- 16 MBits Down / 800 KBits up
- Unlimited phone calls to landlines to all European countries + USA + Canada + a few Asian countries (Japan, China, Taiwan, HK, etc...) + Australia + New Zealand
- 100+ TV channels through the ADSL line + external HD TV decoder (with USB ports for using the decoder as a Server if I wish; and/or to access the same USB-connected disk from the Internet),
- one ADSL box with 4 Ethernet 10/100 ports + WiFi 802.11g access point,
- one HDTV Decoder (connected to a specific Ethernet port on the ADSL box), which can connect to the TV directly AND where I can connect and external USB Disk for recording TV shows. The signal transmitted on the ADSL line are for both Analog and Digital signals coming from the TV stations/channels,
... all that for 29,90 € / Month (about 40,00 US$).
I also have 10 Go of Internet-connected space for storage (hosted at the ISP's location) and some other services like VoIP setup (from my ADSL box) that I use in my GSM/WiFi PDA.
That is great because I can be travelling in, say Belgium, and I need to call the US; so I just connect to the WiFi net in the hotel, place the call from my PDA and the routing of the call is done using my VoIP-SIP setup at home... I do not pay the call from Belgium to the US : it is included in my 29,90€/month payment ! That is great...
Now for the Fiber : this is (first) in the big cities where the density justifies it. The added value is for speed + some other "nice" things like : fixed-IP address, HD-TV signals, etc... The throughput needed for good TV signals is about 2 to 4 Mbits/second
Finally, the last numbers from the ARCEP (the regulation authority in France, like the FCC in the USA) is that 14.6 Million broadband lines are installed in France. Knowing that we have about 800.000 cable customers, this means that there are about 14 million ADSL connections for 60 million people. Paris (and region) having about 11 Million people living there, the ratio shoudl be something like : 3/4 Million ADSL lines in Paris/region and 10 million ADSL lines for the rest of France.
Hope that helps ... | |
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100Mbps, VoIP & TV: $40/Month
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