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 |  RadioDoc 58ef2c0 Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 | Re: If newspapers weren't oldspapers... I think you misread the bit. This is about those very online presences. -- Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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 |  |   Dogfather Premium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA | Re: If newspapers weren't oldspapers... But failing newspapers aren't failing because of lack of online ad revenue, it's because their physical circulation is going to zero. | |
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 |  |  |  RadioDoc 58ef2c0 Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: If newspapers weren't oldspapers... Newspapers have almost never survived on subscription revenue. They are failing due to the dismal economy driving ad spending through the floor. One of the biggest newspaper advertisers are auto dealerships. How are they doin'?
There used to be a dozen or more newspapers in every decent sized city. That changed with radio and TV. They are going through another metamorphosis with the Internet driving a change in business model, but the core is still the same.
And since when have newspapers not been "propaganda rag sheets"? -- Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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 |  |  |  |   Splitpair Premium join:2000-07-29 Cow Towne
·T-Mobile US
| Re: If newspapers weren't oldspapers... Harold Rosado |  Walter Michot |
said by RadioDoc :Newspapers have almost never survived on subscription revenue. They are failing due to the dismal economy driving ad spending through the floor. Oh they where failing long before the economy went south. Their problems are many, but most of them stem primarily from managements resistance to progress, for the longest time they acted as though the Internet was a non-existent entity and could never be a threat to their ivory towers. Then as they lost market share rather then admit to their problems and do something about it, they cut losses by cutting staff, laying off a lions share of their front line reporters and photographers relying instead on the wires and the free images sent in by glory seekers.
The result being they now have high school students, rewriting/ghostwriting for credits, wire stories that may or may not have been proofed by the staff writer whose name appears on the story. Quality is lost and what is being published (excepting sports) is quite often many days old not accurate or incomplete and may often contain bias as it is not being written by a journalist but a student and they still wonder why circulation plummets.
So what do they do? Well down here one of the first tries was to partner with a radio station and that flopped as so called news-radio is going through the same moves and parroting the same wire stories, if not actually reading it from their partners newspaper.
Now the latest game is to go head to head against TV utilizing the Internet, oh yea right thats going to work, they fail to realize the Internet like TV is a visual media that lends it self well to motion, not stills and those TV folks have the production of video down pat,I predict this will also fail as they are getting out of their league and are really not putting their heart in to the effort.
I recently covered an event in Miami »Pro-Israel and Pro-Palestine rallies clash in Miami Florida. where a number of local TV stations had their cameramen/stringers covering the story as well the local fish wrap the Miami herald. Note the contrast in equipment utilized by the cameraman Harold Rosado working for WSVN/Fox and the cameraman Walter Michot for the Herald.
The problem with the Herald and why they will fail is they still are convinced the Internet is a second rate system of distribution, so they see no reason to grab for quality, placing once again what got them to where they are, that being cost over content.
Wayne -- If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician.
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 |  |  |  tarpon
join:2004-01-07 San Jose, CA | Yep, and their circulation is going to zero because they are nothing more than Democrat propaganda. They have lost the meaning of news. | |
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 |  |  |  |  RadioDoc 58ef2c0 Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 | Re: If newspapers weren't oldspapers... You might want to read more than one newspaper and quit listening to right-wingnut radio. The Chicago Tribune (for example) is rarely, if ever, "Democrat". -- Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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 |  |  |  |  rahvin112
join:2002-05-24 Sandy, UT
| I always get a kick out of the right-wing Limbaugh listeners. They think the right-wing feel good no fact garbage they get from rabidly right-wing biased faux-news sources like Limbaugh, Hanity and O'Riley is unbiased and anything that presents both sides of the story in a relatively unbiased manner is a communist rag funded by the "bad guys".
Get a clue, it's not us versus them. There aren't sides in this game with one side having all the answers. If you think for a minute either the Republicans or Democrats are different you have fallen for propaganda and are parroting exactly what the establishment wants. You've lost all concept of the issues and instead are focusing on the minutia while you ignore the truly important decisions being made. | |
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 |  |  |  |   dr3yec
join:2002-12-19 00000 1 edit | Yep, and their circulation is going to zero because they are nothing more than Democrat propaganda. They have lost the meaning of news.
Exactly. Left wing media is just garbage. | |
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 RadioDoc 58ef2c0 Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 | Maybe e-Evolution is overdue It seems that there just might be too many media outlets and it is time to thin the herd... -- Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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 nydwarf1
join:2008-04-11 St Catharines, ON | Absurd This kind of tax is totally absurd and gives no benefit to anyone but the newspaper industry. | |
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 |  jester121 Premium join:2003-08-09 Lake Zurich, IL | Re: Absurd Err... that's the nature of taxation -- take money from a bunch of people for the benefit of someone else. | |
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 Windogg
join:2002-07-24 Cambridge, MA
| I propose a morse code support tax With the proliferation of mobile communications, the internet, dial tone service, and cheap megaphones, morse code services are on their last legs. Let's prop them up by levying a tax against all these new fangled no goodniks encroaching on a good ole fashioned service that connected the two coasts.
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 |  carmas
join:2003-07-31 Floral Park, NY
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: I propose a morse code support tax said by Windogg :With the proliferation of mobile communications, the internet, dial tone service, and cheap megaphones, morse code services are on their last legs. Let's prop them up by levying a tax against all these new fangled no goodniks encroaching on a good ole fashioned service that connected the two coasts. .. + .- --. .-. . . + - --- - .- .-.. .-.. -.-- | |
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 |   Fluke
join:2008-06-24 Plainfield, CT | brilliant! there is no difference in what you are asking for here then what they are asking for now. Could not have made this post better! -- Get cape... wear cape... fly! | |
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  DrModem Premium join:2006-10-19 USA | Totally Ridiculous and Stupid ..........  | |
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  Boomerang86 Got FUD? Premium join:2002-10-18 VampireState clubs: | no freaking way Online newspapers are already HEAVILY ad supported... they don't need any more revenue. -- Don't pay ME back, pay it forward. | |
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 tdouglas22
join:2001-09-25 Memphis, TN | change What they don't understand is that business and times are changing and the old ways of doing business are fading away very fast. It's time to look at other options for revenue and services. | |
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 |  jester121 Premium join:2003-08-09 Lake Zurich, IL | Re: change Forget revenue, let's get slash the expense side -- time to get rid of all the reporters and editorial boards! News organizations can just reprint press releases, and host them online for the public to view. | |
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 |  hottboiinnc ME
join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH | tell that to The Toledo Blade. Most of their content is still in the print version. Very little do you find the same thing in the print in the online version. | |
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  bender Bite my shiny metal ass Premium join:2005-03-19 Evanston, IL clubs: | public radio the only media outlet i pay serious attention to. or care about preserving. -- »www.crossloop.com/nealdaringer | |
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 |  DarkLogix
join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX
·Comcast Workplace
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: public radio Public radio is doing ok but as its the only one worth while anymore lets just give the money to the stations (or maybe even just the shows we listen to)
who's in for the big Radio boost (j/k lol) Radio is doing great but the fairness doctrine will mess it up big time so we need to give them money to fight the coming lawsuits form Osama | |
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 |  |  RadioDoc 58ef2c0 Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: public radio Do you base your posts on facts or just make them up?
The whole Fairness Doctrine thing is due to one insane Senator (Schumer) mouthing off. Nobody at the FCC or in the incoming administration has even considered it.
But it gives the deposed rightwingnuts something to rant about I suppose.
Radio is in the shitter. This I have from direct exposure to the stench. It's going to be a very rough ride in 2009. -- Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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 |  |  |  DarkLogix
join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX 1 edit | Re: public radio I guess your just getting the word of mouth from the wrong mouth
Radio is doing great | |
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 |  |  |  |  RadioDoc 58ef2c0 Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: public radio said by DarkLogix :I guess your just getting the word of mouth from the wrong mouth Radio is doing great I'll just assume you consider a 12% revenue decline in one year and stations laying off personnel in unprecendented numbers "great".
I don't base my opinions on word of mouth. These are actual numbers you'd find if you did any research at all. -- Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  DarkLogix
join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX | Re: public radio Maybe the stations you listen to I've checked and its not true for all | |
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 |  |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02 | Radio is doing great but the fairness doctorin will mess it up big time so we need to give them money to fight the coming lawsuits form Osama Ah, America. Not great spellers, but we certainly are sure of....stuff. | |
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 |  |  |  DarkLogix
join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX
·Comcast Workplace
·Comcast
| Re: public radio a few letters off on a public forum read by people I'll likely never see in person
If I felt that perfect spelling was important in this case I'd proof read it at least once and possibily add proper grammar
If there was any chance of it being part of the front page (not one link away) I might proof read what I type | |
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  woody7 Premium join:2000-10-13 Torrance, CA 2 edits | hmmmm...... All I can say is "BlooowMe"  -- BlooMe
Edit to add
As soon as I get my "stimulus" package, I'll think about it | |
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  BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN | Did blacksmiths get a horseshoe tax? When the automobile overtook horses? Did they add a fee for every tire sold in order to compensate blacksmiths? I think not. | |
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  mod_wastrel
join:2008-03-28
·magicjack.com
| Virtually... whatever I guess requiring a subscription for their "news" site is just too obvious. As far as ads go--paper, website, TV, radio (whatever), 99% of them get completely ignored (but if advertisers are stupid enough to continue paying for their creation and distribution...).
(Of course, without TV ads pro athletes would only make what they're worth to watch: next to nothing.) | |
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 |   baineschile 2600 Premium join:2008-05-10 Sterling Heights, MI | Detroit News The Detroit news and Free Press will stop Michigan delivery during the week (at a $7 monthly charge) for an online delivery ($15).
Way to advance, detroit. | |
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 |  |  DarkLogix
join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX | Re: Detroit News So they're going to stop paper delivery to provide a service that most won't pay for when there are so many free news sites?
who's bright Idea whas that? | |
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 |  |   mod_wastrel
join:2008-03-28
·magicjack.com
| I delivered the paper when I was a kid--walking or on my bike, house to house, paper on the porch; not much pay, but better than an allowance. Now, everything is a motor route--someone (an "adult" usually) driving by throwing a paper out the window... lands wherever it lands. I declined home delivery many years ago when they refused to use the little newspaper "box" under my mailbox (slows them down too much I guess to provide such "quality" service), so I stopped buying/reading the local newspaper altogether. If they provided an electronic delivery (e.g. headlines by email, better/faster [not necessarily without ads, but definitely not annoying click-thru crap they typically have now] website access) for a reasonable charge, then I'd at least consider it; but it would have to be considerably LESS than the charge for paper delivery--certainly not more. I still actually place some value on the local news that a newspaper used to/still could provide, but not to the point of dealing with its current incarnation. Just using something like Zinio would be enough. | |
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 |  |  |   cdru Go Colts Premium,MVM join:2003-05-14 Fort Wayne, IN
| Re: Detroit News said by Mr Matt :  Consider that in order to get on line delivery you have to subscribe to some kind of internet access. If you are going to use a 21st Century news medium, you may as well use 21st Century methods to obtain the news. You probably already have an ISP, so it's not really an additional charge. Plus it's hard to throw a rock and hot his a coffee house, cafe, restruant, book store, hotel, library, or many other types of businesses that don't provide WIFI access if you don't have an ISP of your own.
Plus if you don't have an ISP, online delivery really isn't going to be your preferred method of getting the news. And you wouldn't be subject to an ISP tax anyways...
You cannot conveniently carry the paper with you if you use public transportation. So get a PDA, phone, laptop, or Kindle type device. Again, 21st Century devices for a 21st Century delivery method.
If you want to have a hard copy you will wind up paying for ink and paper to print to the paper. So save an electronic version. Digital lasts forever without losing quality while almost all newsprint these days will yellow in a relatively short period unless specially treated. For those instances where you really want a hardcopy, say for a scrapbook, the cost to print it out is almost trivial even for photographic quality.
That means that $15.00 per month for a subscription is just the tip of the iceburg. So what if it is. We criticize newspapers for not getting with the times, and obviously there is demand for it otherwise they wouldn't be switching, yet the consumers don't want to accept the fact that the pricing model may have to change.
I received written notice from PC Magazine that they were going digital and will no longer deliver the magazine in hard copy form. ... Although many say that eliminating hard copy publications saves materials (trees) we will no longer be able to archive copies of the magazines they purchase for future reference. Forget about archiving on a hard drive. A while back I tried to open a file and found that I no longer had an application that could open the file. Digital mediums are one for perfect examples of a genre that is ideally suited for digital distribution. Tech is constantly changing. Content today becomes yesterday's news in pretty short order. I've kept some print tech magazines for several years, but mainly for nostalgia reasons, not for business or functional ones. Several programmer journals that I've subscribed to digital versions were better then print as you could easily copy/page source code, link to programs, etc instead of having to go to a computer and type in the links.
PC Magazine has an archive going back to August of 2000. If that isn't far enough back, what content are you wanting to look at that you can't get? The ads?
I advised the subscription department that I would not be renewing my subscription when it expires in a couple of months. Hopefully you told them why too. If it's because they don't have an archival format that is a standard, then tell them that. | |
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 hoyleysox
join:2003-11-07 Long Beach, CA | Taxing to support failing industry Its taxing everybody and giving the $ to failing auto manufacturers or banks. Oh, wait ... | |
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  pharvey
@charter.com
| This Reminds Me Of... This reminds me of a Chapter in a book I read talking about how when new technology comes along and puts people out of work there's major backlash against it just because of the people losing work; they fail to see the long lasting benefits of the technology because people are losing their jobs NOW and something needs to be done about it!
Here's the book. It's not very long and it's an easy read: Economics in One Lesson »jim.com/econ/contents.html
Here's the chapter: The Curse of Machinery »jim.com/econ/chap07p1.html | |
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 |  Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29 Eustis, FL | Re: This Reminds Me Of... Say were the Luddites mentioned in that book?  | |
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  Jovi
join:2000-02-24 Mount Joy, PA | Don't blame me I didn't vote for him. | |
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 |  RadioDoc 58ef2c0 Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Don't blame me said by Jovi :I didn't vote for him. You didn't vote for Mike Masnick? -- Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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 |  |   Jovi
join:2000-02-24 Mount Joy, PA | Re: Don't blame me The guy selling magic beans.  | |
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 jdjbuffalo
join:2004-01-17 Denver, CO
| *Shakes Fist At RIAA* The RIAA opened up Pandora's box when they suggested this crap. We aren't just sliding down a slippery slope we're skiing down it now. If these ideas take hold your broadband bill will go from being $40 - $60 per month to $100 - $150 with all this crap.
We need to raise hell with our elected officials if this stuff gets put into any bills or even proposed before congress. We need to cause the same ****-storm that we caused when Net Neutrality was brought up by AT&T. | |
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 iotastorm
join:2006-01-24 Florissant, MO | Didn't you have to pay for a newspaper subscription? I've had subscription when I got a real paper. Why don't they do what they have done in the past? If you want to read them, pay the .50 daily, 1.25 for the weekend edition.. | |
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 |  iansltx
join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
·magicjack.com
·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Problem is, nobody gives enough of a crap to pay for the newspaper anymore, particularly if it''s online, unless the newspaper delivers that much value compared with all the free news sources out there.
As a higher-up in my college newspaper (whole different ball game) we're about 25 cents per issue per student underwater. We're working to pump up the web edition sso we can actually get into the black. One thing's for sure: we ain't gonna ask Comcast and Qwest to charge their student customers an extra $2 per month for our value-added services.
Wonder when new ISPs will come out with barebones internet service...you get a modem (WiMAX or LTE) from the local Wal-Mart, plug it in, find a network (a la WiFI), connect, are greeted with an option for a day or month pass, accept the month pass, and then just use your internet for whatever.
I mean, c'mon, we aren't paying Western Union part of our telephone bills because telegrams started dying off after teh phone's inception. Then again, Western Union has now stopped telegrams. If only the newspapers would likewise figure out how to stop losing money. | |
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 |  |  wev567
join:2006-02-25 Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: Didn't you have to pay for a newspaper subscription? Working for a college paper, you should have an idea of how much effort goes into real reporting. It's aint easy or cheap, and online ad revenues will never be enough to cover. An ISP "tax" for print newspapers isn't fair, and wouldn't be enough to keep the papers around anyway. We have to admit that in-depth, comprehensive reporting will soon be extinct. | |
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 |  |  |  iansltx
join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
·magicjack.com
·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: Didn't you have to pay for a newspaper subscription? I wouldn't say reporting and journalism is extinct, just that it'll have to be a premium product, and a specialized one, in order to survive. Eventually the industry will stabilize, with lower pay to be sure, but some firms will be weeded out, leaving entities that provide value proportional to their cost, either in advertising money or real money. People will still pay for news, but the quality has to be high. Also, high quality content attracts high quality visitors which react to high quality, high priced ads... | |
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 |  Kearnstd Elf Wizard Premium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ
| the thing that burns me on this is that the idea is as dumb as say if Airline tickets had gotten a tax after the Boeing 707 killed the steamship for crossing the ocean on a trip. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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  Maynard G Krebs
@teksavvy.com | And how does my NEW 'news' website muscle in on the revenue? If that model is ever enacted then how does my hypothetical new site get paid out of the ISP 'tax' pool?
The incumbents on day one will conspire to not pay other publications coming on-board because it will dilute their cut. | |
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  n2jtx
join:2001-01-13 Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
| A slippery slope I guess every business that possibly has a tie-in to the Internet is going to push for their own tax. So far we have:
RIAA music tax MPAA movie tax Newspaper tax
Then we can add:
Book Publishers tax for e-Books Search engine tax to prop up Yahoo! Streaming Radio tax to support failed radio stations Online Phone Book tax because of lost 411 revenue Software Publishers tax to make up for pirated software Sales Tax avoidance tax to support failed governments U.S. Mail evasion tax for e-billing payments -- I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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 |  fiberguy My views are my own. Premium join:2005-05-20
| Re: A slippery slope Fair post..
... the bottom line is what this SHOULD be telling people that run these businesses is that it's time to take a REALLY good look at their business model and, um, EVOLVE!
While I am all out for preserving 'tradition', that has its limitation. I'm not one for keeping something around "for tradition" or preserving something simply becuase "we've had it for so long"... we had out-houses for a long time too, but they went by the wayside at the advent of indoor plumbing. Those who made outhouses simply moved towards making indoor toilets.
Again, its just time to evolve and it's time for this country to live within its means. We don't need to hold on to things, like the outdated news paper, simply for jobs.. this country constantly has to reinvent itself.. this should be no different. It worked for the porn industry so I see no reason why news papers can't.  | |
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 tarpon
join:2004-01-07 San Jose, CA | Nothing new The BBC, a government parrot if there ever was one, is funded by TV taxes. This isn't new.
Locally our water bill is used to fund street repair, electric bill is used to fund parks, if it moves taxes it. | |
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 |   elios
join:2005-11-15 Springfield, MO
·Mediacom
| Re: Nothing new said by tarpon :The BBC, a government parrot if there ever was one, is funded by TV taxes. This isn't new. Locally our water bill is used to fund street repair, electric bill is used to fund parks, if it moves taxes it. except that the BBC 1. doesnt suck and 2. has no ads | |
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 |  |   jinjimbob Troy Mcclure
join:2001-11-13
| Re: Nothing new said by elios :said by tarpon :The BBC, a government parrot if there ever was one, is funded by TV taxes. This isn't new. Locally our water bill is used to fund street repair, electric bill is used to fund parks, if it moves taxes it. except that the BBC 1. doesnt suck and 2. has no ads And that it isn't a tax. I agree, it is great. | |
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 |  dave Premium,MVM join:2000-05-04 not in ohio
·Verizon Online DSL
·Verizon FIOS
| said by tarpon :The BBC, a government parrot if there ever was one, is funded by TV taxes. This isn't new. Government parrot? The British governments over the years have never seemed to believe that - it's pretty usual for the government of the day to complain that the BBC is too right/left/biased/anti-government/etc. | |
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