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Reign
seXorcist
Premium
join:2003-05-05
Toronto, ON
clubs:   
| Sveasoft's vs WiFi-Box
This is not a flame thread if you cant handle yourself please do not post. I want to compare there to latest builds for the WRTG54G Router by Linksys. I want to know the diffrences and what the average user should have? Which one has more feature but dose the other one have more secureity and so on. Please disscuss here. | |
SirDracula
join:2003-01-30
Sacramento, CA | Good topic, I would be interested in the same things. I only tried wifi's firmware so far and it does mostly everything that I want it to. | |
Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
 ·Comcast
| reply to Reign
Every time I ask this question, I'm either ignored or am told they have similar but different features. Unfortunately while both have a change log (which IMHO isn't very readable), neither of them fully list what their features are which makes it difficult if not impossible to compare the two. Sound count me in on wanting to wanting to know as well. | |
digiblur
Got Sipura?
Premium
join:2002-06-03
Louisiana
| reply to Reign
I use Sveasoft's.
Sveasoft's DHCP address window works correctly. Last time I checked, WiFi's was adding characters to the addresses.
Sveasoft's has Wondershaper Bandwidth Management built in. It works great with my Packet8 VOIP phone. Before I was flooding my entire 256k upstream with say a FTP upload it would cause trouble on the VOIP phone. Now with Port 21(FTP) set as low priority, the WRT54G throttles back the FTP session, and lets the VOIP phone traffic go through loud and clear. It also works great for other things. I set newsgroups, P2P, email sending/receiving, FTP all to low priority. So basically HTTP and VOIP get high priority. I can tell a big difference in web browsing if I have some high P2P going, sending large attachments via email, or uploading to FTP. This is my favorite feature as you can see.
Sveasofts also has WDS mesh networking built in. | |
PorkRind
join:2004-01-27
Brunswick, ME
| reply to Morac
It's pretty simple: Sveasoft's firmware is targeted more for the WISP (Wireless Internet Service Provider) and Public Access Point crowd; those that want to use the relatively inexpensive WRT54G from Linksys to provide free or fee-based internet access. The tool-set included with their firmware reflects that; bandwidth/class-of-service management, support for various types of authentication, and robust and highly configurable firewall capabilities.
Wifi-Box's firmware seems targeted at the personal/home-office crowd, providing a reasonable and easy-to-access feature set for those that want basic security features and support for secure connectivity to (and from) corporate offices via VPN.
Sveasoft's firmware is based on the LinkSys GPL source code distribution and distributed freely under the GNU General Public License; you can download the source code, make changes to it, recompile it yourself and install your own version on your WRT54G if you'd like. If you decide to share your version with another, you are obligated to provide your source code.
Wifi-Box's firmware is also derived from the GPL'ed Open Source distribution made available by LinkSys, but he has apparently (and illegally) ignored the terms of the GPL and is not distributing his source code. This is worrisome, because there's no way a user of his firmware can determine whether he's included any vulnerable (or malicious) code, intentionally or not, without extensive monitoring of the traffic on both sides of the router. It also eliminates the possibility of cooperative development and peer review, which can greatly speed up the development time for new features and enhance the trustworthiness of the code by putting many eyes on it.
Sveasoft's firmware contains more experimental code than Wifi-Box's from what I've been able to determine, but the feature set is much richer. The downside is added complexity in its configuration, with somewhat increased opportunity for making errors that could compromise the security of your LAN. As I said, it's targeted at individuals that do wireless networking for a living.
Wifi-Box's firmware is easier to configure, with fewer opportunities to enable features that could cause problems for the home user. He seems to provide good support for it here. I'd prefer that he post his source for peer review, though, as any potential issues with his modifications to the LinkSys source would be quickly identified and fixed by the development community.
If you're interested in getting the most out of your WRT54G, Sveasoft's firmware provides a level of functionality unheard of for a sub-$100US access point. Multiple individuals are involved in its development and testing, led by James Ewing. He's been very responsive in providing requested features that make sense for Sveasoft's targeted market. The configuration is not for the faint of heart, though.
Wifi-Box's firmware has only one developer and point of support, with no access to the source. Its ease of configuration may be attractive for the novice user, however.
There, does that help?  | |
Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| said by PorkRind  :
There, does that help?
Don't take this the wrong way because I'm not trying to be insulting, but it really doesn't. The whole post basically boils down to WiFi-Box makes his own set and Sveasoft forums (group of people) make their own set with some tidbits about home vs WISP thrown in. It doesn't state the features that each provide (for example WiFi uses telnetd, while Sveasoft uses openssh).
The one thing I didn't think too much about until you brought it up was that WiFi-Box is ignoring the GNU GPL which is very bad from both a legal and ethical standpoint. It makes it worse that he has stated that he borrowed code (static DHCP) from people posting in the Sveasoft forums and included them in his firmware (I would think they would be annoyed at that). | |
tc17
join:2003-08-14
| said by Morac :
said by PorkRind :
There, does that help?
The one thing I didn't think too much about until you brought it up was that WiFi-Box is ignoring the GNU GPL which is very bad from both a legal and ethical standpoint. It makes it worse that he has stated that he borrowed code (static DHCP) from people posting in the Sveasoft forums and included them in his firmware (I would think they would be annoyed at that).
Well if its open source like you say and it should be shared, then it shouldn't matter if he does use some of the sveasoft code as long as the person gets credit for their work.
Personally I feel that most of the stuff sveasoft is adding most people will not use in my opinion. WDS from what little I understand, shares your internet connection with a wide area, which to me seems very risky.
One thing I like is that Wifi organizes the new options on the menus instead of putting them all on one page like the sveasoft firmware does.
I'm more disappointed in Linksys for putting out a router firmware lacking features compared to other lesser known brands. So much so that we have to resort to using hacked firmware to get features (which probably is a security risk in itself). | |
Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| said by tc17 :
Well if its open source like you say and it should be shared, then it shouldn't matter if he does use some of the sveasoft code as long as the person gets credit for their work.
Unfortunately that's not how GPL works. Since LinkSys uses GPLed code (linux) for their router they have to, by law, release the source code for any derived code (meaning that it wasn't 100% developed by them). Similarly if someone takes LinkSys's source code and modifies it they have to release the source code if they release the binary. That's how the GPL works. It's not just open source, it's GPL open source. So if WiFi-Box releases the binary but does not make the source code available his is violating the GNU GPL and thereby violating the copyright license.
said by tc17 :
Personally I feel that most of the stuff sveasoft is adding most people will not use in my opinion. WDS from what little I understand, shares your internet connection with a wide area, which to me seems very risky.
I've read they've added QOS ability to the router which is useful if you use VOIP. They also came up with the static DHCP implementation and remote logging which is useful to home users. A list of features is here though some of it is a bit cryptic and I don't think it's complete.
I agree though that most of the hacked firmwares put LinkSys's one to shame. Linksys should fire their firmware writing team and hire these guys. | |
PorkRind
join:2004-01-27
Brunswick, ME
1 edit | reply to Morac
Don't take this the wrong way because I'm not trying to be insulting, but it really doesn't. The whole post basically boils down to WiFi-Box makes his own set and Sveasoft forums (group of people) make their own set with some tidbits about home vs WISP thrown in. It doesn't state the features that each provide (for example WiFi uses telnetd, while Sveasoft uses openssh).
OK, then let me restate my point in a less wishy-washy way:
"Wifi-Box's firmware is in violation of the GNU General Public License, under which the original LinkSys source was distributed. It may contain malicious and/or vulnerable code. Until he releases the source to the public, there is no way to verify this without an intensive effort that will, for the individuals undertaking it, provide virtually no reward. Use this firmware only if you implicitly trust Wifi-Box's intentions and coding skill, and expect him to remain available to support it."
"Sveasoft's firmware contains all of the functionality present in Wifi-Box's firmware, along with a number of significant security enhancements, albeit in a somewhat less user-friendly form. However, Sveasoft has completely complied with the GNU General Public License, and the complete source code is publicly available for review, modification, and redistribution. Because of the number of people with access to the source, it has a much lower likelihood of containing undetected malicious and/or vulnerable code. In the event that Sveasoft should disappear, the source will remain for future enhancements and bug fixes."
In my opinion, all the comparison points needed are right there in the two paragraphs above. Until Wifi-Box complies with the terms of the GPL and posts his source, I would not recommend it over the Sveasoft firmware, regardless of the intended use. The Sveasoft firmware's only downside is some additional complexity in configuration when the hardware is used for more advanced/specialized purposes.
Wifi-Box's refusal to provide his source is a mystery. Given that he's legally required to do so and has been aware of that fact for some time, I am concerned with regard to his long-term intentions. I certainly hope he will do the right thing, as many are happily using his firmware distribution and he has been providing very good support for it here. | |
k0fcc
Kilo Zero F C C
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Longmont, CO
| reply to Reign
Well, I've used both just today.
Wi-fi's is cosmetically nicer and it seems to be a little peppier than Svea's. (with or without wondershaping). Svea's does have more options, although you have to google for what they do.
Porkrind I think has the deciding point. No matter how nice wi-fi's code is, it's currently a) in violation of the GPL (multiple times too - Linksys, Sveasoft, and Wumpus) and b) the code hasn't been scrutinized for backdoors and such.
My first wish is for Wi-Fi to pub his code. My second wish is to merge the gui aspects of both. My third would be to see Svea and Wi-Fi team up on various aspects of the base source. This is just me though. Just imagine how lucky us end users would be if they both worked together instead of separately.
..anyway, I switched off of WI-Fi's due exclusively to the GPL issue and am now running Svea's.
--
My Website | |
k0fcc
Kilo Zero F C C
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Longmont, CO | Not to mention that Svea's got a cool Buddhist naming convention going on that I can relate to. 
--
My Website | |
Reign
seXorcist
Premium
join:2003-05-05
Toronto, ON
clubs: | So WiFi-Box can add hack codes in it? | |
k0fcc
Kilo Zero F C C
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Longmont, CO | While it is very unlikely that he would, yes, it's possible without the code being open to public inspection.
--
My Website | |
Wifi Box
join:2003-10-14
France
| Yes it's true but do you need ask Microsoft give you the source code of Windows for you curious because you never trust to use it if you can't inspection ?
Please read my DISCLAIMER at my homepage- if you don't trust my firmware -> please go away - and i make it for myself or someone wanna to try it.
About GPL => I'm waiting SF accept for my Project, you can check my id: wifi-box at sourceforge
I thinks: MOD > need close this thread because:
I don't want someone try to accuse (and/or misunderstand) me as a hacker.
And if someone would like to continue, you can make a new thread at Sveasoft's Forum. | |
Reign
seXorcist
Premium
join:2003-05-05
Toronto, ON
clubs: | Wifi, why do you think we are here for accuse you? You did the project for free we wouldent want to bash you on the excellent work you have done. We are not misunderstanding you man please hear us out. | |
jdepew
James Depew
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-13
Richmond, VA
| Hey everyone,
I've been in contact a bunch with WiFi over the past few weeks, hence why I've been posting a bunch of answers to questions about his firmware.
I just tonight verified that he has applied for a project at SourceForge.net
When the project goes online it will be titled 'WiFi-Box'
He applied for the project account on 1/10 and has yet to hear back form the SF staff. Typically turn around is 2-3 days, but they may be backlogged as everything has to be done manually.
You can rest assured that he will be providing the source and will be attributing the code to those who have written it.
I believe a large part of this stems from a bit of language barrier. I know that once the project goes live a whole bunch of people will be chomping at the bit to add their own code and ideas; the idea of integrating ideas from each of the firmwares is part of the point of GPL, let the community access and improve upon open code and then make it available for others.
So, anyways, I too am anxiously awaiting the next version and the source code. We'll keep you updated as to the status!
For now - everyone enjoy the amazing benefits that both Sveasoft and WiFi have brought you - I know I am! Its made this router purchase more than worthwhile!
--
Comcast-}WRT54G-}BEFSR41v2&BEFSR81wired-} K6-550, XP2800+, P4 2.4wireless-}Toshiba S1292, iPAQ h2215 | |
jdepew
James Depew
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-13
Richmond, VA
| Oh - and to get back on the topic of the original post ---
Here are the features that the latest WiFi firmware has on top of the latest available Linksys version. Someone else feel free to chime in on Sveasoft's list of added features
See we can all get along
Local DNS Server
Static DHCP (thanks for Wumpus and Sveasoft forum for this patch)
Autorun Bash Shell Script (ABSS)
Restored Ping hack functionality
Transmit Power Hack Built-In (!!)
Antenna Diversity Selection
Support for DYNDNS Custom
Remote Wake On Lan Support
Added Support for 255.255.0.0 and 255.0.0.0 Lan Net Mask
Working Multi PPTP Passthrough
SNMP support
Latest BusyBOX installed
Worldwide Channel support 1-14 even in US release
Added Status page with uptime and CPU load info
Added more Server Profiles (Ident, MSN, VNC, et cetera) for Port Forwarding
Added Reboot Router/Service button (Administration) for soft reboot router OR manual reboot all Service
Fixed Linksys' problem with FTP Passive mode
Added support for ZoneEdit.com
Added Server Profiles for easy port forwarding w/ 20 templates
VPN features
------------
VPN (PPTP) server (Up to 1024 clients but max 5 due to RAM limit)
Support for WAN connect to Local PC behide WRT54G VPN
Support for VPN to WAN, using like a router VPN
Full Compress and Crypto mode, Faster/Better with full M.S 64/128 Bits Crypto
Full support for Windows 9x/2K/XP and Linux with PPTP Client
Added Telnet access to router- features:
-------------
Password protection (logon: root & password: same as router)
Turn on/off Telnetd service (Under Administration->Management)
Auto block telnet access from WAN to LAN
Currently defined functions:
[addgroup, adduser, busybox, cat, chmod, chroot, clear, cp, date, echo, egrep, env, expr, false, fgrep, free, getty, grep, hexdump, hostname, ifconfig, kill, killall, klogd, ln, login, logread, ls, lsmod, makedevs, mesg, mkdir, modprobe, more, msh, mv, nc, netstat, nslookup, passwd, ping, ps, pwd, reboot, reset, rm, rmdir, rmmod, route, sh, sleep, strings, stty, sync, syslogd, tail, telnet, telnetd, test, top, touch, traceroute, true, tty, uptime, vi, wget, yes]
--
Comcast-}WRT54G-}BEFSR41v2&BEFSR81wired-} K6-550, XP2800+, P4 2.4wireless-}Toshiba S1292, iPAQ h2215 | |
TelcomanRET
join:2000-09-20
Arlington, VA
| reply to jdepew
said by jdepew :
So, anyways, I too am anxiously awaiting the next version and the source code. We'll keep you updated as to the status!
For now - everyone enjoy the amazing benefits that both Sveasoft and WiFi have brought you - I know I am! Its made this router purchase more than worthwhile!
Well said James.
WiFi,
Don't let this controversy stop you from continuing this project. I for one appreciate your hard work to make the WRT54G a much improved router for us to use. I am also looking forward to future releases.
Bob C | |
PorkRind
join:2004-01-27
Brunswick, ME
| reply to Wifi Box
Yes it's true but do you need ask Microsoft give you the source code of Windows for you curious because you never trust to use it if you can't inspection ?
Microsoft® is under no obligation to provide their source code, as they either wrote the code for Windows solely themselves, or licensed it as closed, proprietary source from another vendor with a specific agreement that the source not be revealed. They also wrote the license under which their binaries are distributed, and it includes no language requiring them to provide the source. That said, I'd take it if they'd give it to me. But they don't have to.
You are, however, bound by the license agreement for the source code on which you built your version of the firmware; that source code was distributed under the GNU General Public License which LEGALLY REQUIRES you to publish the source. You have, so far, failed to do so. That's the issue, pure and simple. Comply with the GPL, and the problem disappears.
And not having a SourceForge account is a pretty odd reason for failing to distribute the source. Tar it up and post it on your web page with the binaries. That's all it takes to stop the bitching.
Actually, I'm going to stop my bitching now anyway. I've said my piece.
PorkRind - The Other Crunchy White Meat Byproduct | |
jdepew
James Depew
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-13
Richmond, VA
2 edits | Pork, please chill - we're all friends here. He has a SourceForge account, but a project has to be applied for and created by the SourceForge staff. That's what he's waiting on. Yes, he could post it to his site, but felt this was the better way of doing it so that everyone would have a central place for updates and collaboration. I have told him that he is in violation of the GPL by not posting the source and he understands and thats why he's working to get it up. He's also 6 hours ahead of us guys on the East Coast, so he's responding at 4 or 5am with English as a 2nd language, so he's doing the best he can with the responses. And PorkRind, before you start your first two postings flaming a guy working hard for you, develop a relationship with the community and contribute positively. Anyways - thanks everyone! Have a good night.0
Other than that - can we please get BACK ON TOPIC - the features available and upcoming on the firmware variants out there.
Anybody else know of any other projects for this router?
Oh, personally, I LOVE the idea of WDS that Sveasoft has got implemented. I think I'm going to pick up another router just to try messing with that. Another cool feature of Sveasoft is the powerful bandwidth management - tre cool.
--
Comcast -> WRT54Gv1 -> BEFSR41v2 & BEFSR81
wired -> K6-550, XP2800+, PIII-S 1.4, Slimp3, XBOX Live
wireless ->Toshiba S1292, iPAQ h2215, WPS54GU2 w/ Brother HL-1440 | |
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