kaisa
Premium
join:2002-08-20
Glen Ellyn, IL
clubs:  | IRC trading
quote:
even more traders fleeing to newsgroups and IRC
IMO It'll take the RIAA forever to start cracking down on IRC users...thats where file trading is going to go. |
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Xtract
join:2003-04-25
Etheria
| There are two solutions left that can render a user "still safe".
Multiple privatized networks, or distributed proxying. The RIAA can not hold someone liable for being a proxy for the content that transfers through their machine, but is never stored. If they did, then they could hold ISP's who own routers responsible.
If you're a member of a few privatized networks, you could share your content on those networks. You can choose which "networks" to be a part of, and the network owner can establish a login for you on that network. If a file you want is not on your network, the peers on your network will ask the people on their networks if that file is available, and then proxy the information to you. Kind of complex, but other then compromised IRC hosts, thats really the only way to stay safe. |
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dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Verizon FIOS
| said by Xtract  :
If they did, then they could hold ISP's who own routers responsible.
Oh, I'm no lawyer, but I'd guess it's fairly easy to make a case that a proxy operating on top of layer 4 is content-aware in a way that a router operating at layer 3 cannot possibly be aware. |
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Xtract
join:2003-04-25
Etheria
| But if a person uses multiple proxies, how could you hold the person accountable? They're not sharing the file, but rather just directing traffic to a desired host. Regardless of the layer, even routers can be programmed to filter for certain content (port blocking).
The charges brought against these users are for sharing files that are stored on their own computer. It would take a whole new set of legislation to try a case like this and win. |
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mrchris
We don't miss you Bush
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | reply to kaisa
Already underground, I give where the MPAA nor RIAA know of this network  |
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Xtract
join:2003-04-25
Etheria | There will always be the underground. The RIAA/MPAA doesn't care about the underground, they care about filesharing becoming widespread.
My solutions were regarding those who wish to fileshare in a widespread community. |
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maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Xtract
No matter how many proxies one uses, if there is a file on YOUR harddrive, and it is being copied in ANY WAY to the Internet, you are violating the DCMA.
If ANY bytes of a moviefile on your computer LEAVE your computer to the Internet - you are conducting a crime. Owners of proxy servers will be able to track down which IP address was connected at what time. Since proxy owners will simply be presented with a "give us the IP addresses or we will sue YOU for copyright violations" you can be sure that a proxyserver host will gladly give the list up.
Private surfing is one thing. But if crime is involved, even the anonymouse proxies give up their information.
--
»www.deanforamerica.com - You have the power to make a change! Support Howard Dean 2004 |
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mrchris
We don't miss you Bush
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| reply to Xtract
Too late, it already is...
What are they gonna do when there'll be 10-15 million people on kazaa sharing? There's definatly something wrong with RIAA/MPAA if there's gonna be that many people.
--
Play ET! |
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Xtract
join:2003-04-25
Etheria
| reply to maartena
said by maartena :
But if crime is involved, even the anonymouse proxies give up their information.
I'm sure by now, people already understand the crime involved. People obviously do not care. But what if the anonymous proxies intentionally do not keep logs? You can't get them for destruction of evidence, since technically, the data never existed before the subpoena. |
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CablePower
Tmd
join:2003-08-29
Milton, FL
1 edit | reply to kaisa
said by kaisa :
quote:
even more traders fleeing to newsgroups and IRC
IMO It'll take the RIAA forever to start cracking down on IRC users...thats where file trading is going to go.
That's what people said about eDonkey and bittorrent. The fact is that you are not untouchable, no matter where you are. Thieves are going to be caught. |
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anomus
@mindspring.com
| reply to Xtract
You seem to have missed the point. Right this very minute, the **aa's are indeed holding the ISPs accountable for the P2P traffic that is infringing. That is why the ISPs send the users those violation leters that are poping up all over threatening disconection. In doing so, the ISPs are then released from legal liability from the activity there system perpetuates. If a private user sets up a proxy service and is caught ferrying illegal material, they are compelled to threaten disconnection and divulge idetification or face legal penalties. Only an off shore buisness location out of the reach of world law hostile to fileshareing can get away with proxy serving for the time being. |
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Xtract
join:2003-04-25
Etheria
| ISP's weren't held responsible for the data that went through them, but legislation made them responsible for turning over the information regarding the customer that was.
What if they didn't have that information? That barrier hasn't seemed to be crossed yet. The ISP would only legally be responsible for REFUSING to give information.
You can't subpoena for something that doesn't exist. I can completely understand where you're coming from. I really can, but perhaps its just my curiosity that is causing me to wonder otherwise. |
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F walker
Hey Intern, Get Me A Campari
Premium
join:2003-04-10
Anchorage, AK
clubs: | reply to kaisa
I have begun to use Nullsoft's Waste Client (»sourceforge.net/projects/waste/) more and more. Privatized small networks are getting to be the safest way to share. |
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Speedy8
Premium
join:2002-08-22
Alliance, OH
clubs:
| reply to mrchris
IMO it's because people like getting stuff for free and they don't view downloading files as "stealing". Because you aren't physically taking something from someone and they still have a copy of it. Right or wrong there will always be many people who think that way. Plus you have to take into account that a majority of the stuff being downloaded the people would have never bought anyway. I do buy some movies and games, but I'm not going to say I don't download anything, because theres some stuff I wouldn't buy otherwise.
Of course some people will say that's not right, but if I still buy the stuff I normally pay for I don't see the problem. |
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russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
| reply to maartena
said by maartena :
No matter how many proxies one uses, if there is a file on YOUR harddrive, and it is being copied in ANY WAY to the Internet, you are violating the DCMA.
Actually, not.
quote:
If ANY bytes of a moviefile on your computer LEAVE your computer to the Internet - you are conducting a crime.
Also not true.
quote:
Owners of proxy servers will be able to track down which IP address was connected at what time.
Only if they actually have that information. |
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IGGY
No Guru Just Here To Help
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-30
Chatham, IL | reply to F walker
Waste can also be found here
»www.iggyz.com/waste.html
»www.iggyz.com/book/music.html |
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grjones
join:2001-12-01
Seattle, WA
|  reply to anomus
["Only an off shore buisness location out of the reach of world law hostile to fileshareing can get away with proxy serving for the time being."]
Which is why I know people who use a n offshore opeation called EarthStation5, which I have looked at and the provide an intersting alternative that appears to be able to thwart the RIAA using DMCA to crack donw on their users. |
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ParanoiaInc
join:2002-08-28
Tucker, GA | reply to kaisa
I thought it was always on NNTP. |
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Offsetx800
@hes-cres.charterpipe | reply to maartena
Wrong. It's not a "crime", its a tort. It's civil litigation and most countries don't give a shit about other country's civil law. |
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wabladoob
@attbi.com
| reply to Speedy8
You can't have your cake and eat it to. The fact that it's easier to get away with stealing doesn't make it right... no matter how much you try to rationalize it; furthermore, most developers (music, software, whatever) do not download copyrighted objects from the net... perhaps because they have a little bit more respect for creative rights. |
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