Krispy
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-11
the stix
| Criminal Matter
An attack of this magnitude should DEFINITELY be a criminal matter and be investigated by the authorities. Public awareness of this issue is tantamount if we are to stop this from happening again. People need to understand how this temp victory to the spammers affects all of us. |
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chanur
Premium
join:2001-02-26
Colorado Springs, CO
| I have long had a question that has been bugging me.
When I want to stop something from happening that is irritating me, and there is an intermediary, I go to the source. The people who buy these adds should begin to suffer the punishment. It seems they would be eminently more traceable (after all, they are trying to sell something). Is it the volume of spam purchasers that prevents this? When I get junk mail (a lot of course) I am irritated at those who send it - not the spammer but the seller of product. Is it a free speech issue? We seem to be getting around that with no-call lists. |
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ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs: | You would be suprised at the amount of people who are exempt from no-call lists. |
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bhhurd
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Korea | I tell telephone solicitors two things:
"Take me off your list!"
and
"We do not respond to ANY telephone solicitations."
Then I hang up. |
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Krispy
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-11
the stix
| But the very fact that you answered the phone number they dialed makes someone, somewhere money which means they will continue to do it. The same goes for spam mail, even those 'F.O.A.D spammer' responses are counted as a 'contact' in many cases. |
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ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
 ·magicjack.com
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·Comcast
 ·AT&T Midwest
 ·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to bhhurd
Studies have shown that even if you request them to take you off their list, they will say they did, then just slide your phone number to the next representative. I dare you to ask for company information, and see what type of stone-walling they give you, or fake information they tell you is true. By Federal law they have to identify themselves by their first and last names, and the company they are claiming to represent. I would venture from what I was able to extrapolate from the research done, about 1 in 10 numbers are actually removed upon customer request. Probably more when the lawyers give them a talking to, and definately more when they receive their first $10,000 fine.
Oh, and just as a side note, they don't have to buy the no-call list, that is purely voluntary; at least in Indiana (the allegedly strictest no call-list rules & penalties in the US).
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Upgraded eTower733i, 512MB PC133,PCI GeForce MX440 64MB, Onboard Sound, 2 x 20GB HD. "If it still does what you need it to, it's not outdated". |
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broknsymetry
What Time Is It And Why?
Premium
join:2003-06-27
THE VOID
clubs:
| said by ctceo  :
Studies have shown that even if you request them to take you off their list, they will say they did, then just slide your phone number to the next representative.
Having been a telemarketer for a long six weeks once, I can tell you that most telemarketers are people just trying to feed their families and have no other choice except to take such a degrading job. Degrading due to the abuse that they must accept from people on the other end of the line. We were not allowed to become abusive ourselves, but when the customer cussed and ranted we were required to remain on the line until they ended the call. Also, if a customer requested to be removed from the list we complied by marking their record. As to the disposition of the record beyond that, the agent had no control, but the company was required by law to remove them from the database.
If you do receive a call from a telemarketer, just politely request to be removed from the list. |
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ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
·magicjack.com
·AT&T U-Verse
·Comcast
·AT&T Midwest
·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to Krispy
Good Luck getting that to work.
As far as having been a TM at one time myself as well, I know where you are coming from. Just another point when it comes to how bad the job market is now'a'days.
I am constantly telling the same organizations, or people representing them to stop calling me. So far I have had to request a phone tap 4 months in a row to maintain active and accurate records of who calls from where and when, and take 3 Bill collection companies to small claims in the past 12 months. About half of the calls are from automated systems that for one reason call and then hang up when you answer, yet they are still in operation 12 months later, after litigation from me. The bill collectors aren't even calling for me, they are calling for somebody that I've never heard of, and when asked for their First/Last name & the company they represent, they insist that I don't need that information for one reason or another, and that is when they usually hang up on me, only to call back later that week, using a different rep. on Sunday at 6AM.
besides that as far as I'm aware I have only 2 Debts, My new computer, & Next months fiscal expenditures for the home office.
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Upgraded eTower733i, 512MB PC133,PCI GeForce MX440 64MB, Onboard Sound, 2 x 20GB HD. "If it still does what you need it to, it's not outdated". |
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ifarrell
join:2000-08-10
Willow Spring, NC
·Vonage
| reply to broknsymetry
said by broknsymetry :
said by ctceo :
Studies have shown that even if you request them to take you off their list, they will say they did, then just slide your phone number to the next representative.
Having been a telemarketer for a long six weeks once, I can tell you that most telemarketers are people just trying to feed their families and have no other choice except to take such a degrading job. Degrading due to the abuse that they must accept from people on the other end of the line. We were not allowed to become abusive ourselves, but when the customer cussed and ranted we were required to remain on the line until they ended the call. Also, if a customer requested to be removed from the list we complied by marking their record. As to the disposition of the record beyond that, the agent had no control, but the company was required by law to remove them from the database.
If you do receive a call from a telemarketer, just politely request to be removed from the list.
Been there, tried that.
Worse offenders are the Telco's followed by loan sharks (oppps, I mean Credit Card companies). MCI is the worse telco followed by AT&T. Citibank is the worse Credit Card company. They claim they've removed you but you get another call the very next week. I tried to report MCI to the feds but if you can't get the number (the telemarketers are very good at blocking phone numbers) you don't have a case. You need the persons name, name of company, phone number they called from, time of day each incident occured and the phone number they called to. WTF.
So now I use Telezapper (there is a god after all (-; ) and if I see "Blocked", "Private" or "Out of Area" I let the answering machine pick up.
Finally, after two years I think they got the message. I may get one or two a month now. |
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twd660
join:2001-06-06
Huntington, WV
|  reply to broknsymetry
Listen, i lived in huntinton WV. there r 3 or 4 call centers ther, our mayor give these people a no tax credit for a certain number of years , to try and bring up the un-employment rate , but after that time wheres off these companies move again , leaving more people without jobs.
i lived there i know frpm the real world! |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| reply to Krispy
said by Krispy :
An attack of this magnitude should DEFINITELY be a criminal matter and be investigated by the authorities. Public awareness of this issue is tantamount if we are to stop this from happening again. People need to understand how this temp victory to the spammers affects all of us.
Eh hem. Osirusoft is run off someone's DSL line. The "magnitude" of this attack could be 2 compromised Windows boxes. WOW, |
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Krispy
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-11
the stix
| said by JakCrow:
Eh hem. Osirusoft is run off someone's DSL line. The "magnitude" of this attack could be 2 compromised Windows boxes. WOW,
The attack went out for well over a month and the Osirusoft list helped many organizations (ie: my company) filter LOTS of unnecessary mail on a daily basis, now we have to deal with increased processing loads and customer complaints because most of the mail that was previously filtered by Osirusoft is now getting through....that costs us real money as it has for many others I would imagine. |
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masterpjz9
join:2000-10-14
Peabody, MA
| reply to ctceo
said by ctceo :
Oh, and just as a side note, they don't have to buy the no-call list, that is purely voluntary; at least in Indiana (the allegedly strictest no call-list rules & penalties in the US).
Well I know in Massachusetts, if you are on the No Call list and they call you, they can get fined if you report them. This list is not voluntary |
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ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
·magicjack.com
·AT&T U-Verse
·Comcast
·AT&T Midwest
·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to Krispy
Massachusetts
Chapter 265 of the Acts of 2002
Section 2, Subsection ii, Sentence 5
" The office shall update such listing not less than quarterly and shall make such listing available to telephone solicitors and other persons for a fee as the office shall prescribe. "
According to MA State No-Call registry (not the federal no call list) the list is prescribed, on a per fee basis, and if a solicitor chooses not to purchase that list, so be it.
HOWEVER they are still held liable for any infraction caused as a result of soliciting in violation of said Local or Federal Law (Telephone Consumer Protection Act, 47 U.S.C. s.227; 47 C.F.R. s. 64.)
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SuperMicro P4QH6 w/Quad Xeon 3.06Ghz, Gainward FX Ultra 1600 AGP 8x Video 256 DDR, 1GB DDR memory, DVD-RW, Audigy II Sound, 180GB SATA Hard Drive, 27" Flat Panel. It may be a bit much, but it was free! |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| reply to Krispy
said by Krispy :
The attack went out for well over a month and the Osirusoft list helped many organizations (ie: my company) filter LOTS of unnecessary mail on a daily basis, now we have to deal with increased processing loads and customer complaints because most of the mail that was previously filtered by Osirusoft is now getting through....that costs us real money as it has for many others I would imagine.
The "attack" against Joe could have simply come from 2 or 3 compromised Windows boxes sitting on a cable modem somewhere. No one in their right mind would run a prime DOS target like a blocklist off a DSL line.
Also, it's your own damn fault for going with a blocklist run by unprofessionals with large egos and no accountability. I know plenty of companies that deal with spam quite effectively without spews. I have no sympathy for you or your "real money".
[text was edited by author 2003-08-29 04:15:57] |
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Krispy
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-11
the stix
| It was far more then 2-3 machines, anyway if you are attempting to defend DoS attacks based on size you've lost quite a bit of credibility in my eyes already. And btw, spews and osirusoft are two different lists, we didn't reject mail based on spews, we rejected mail based on queries to relays.osirusoft.com and that was a very respectable list.
Regardless, I've wasted too much time reading your uninformed blather so troll on. |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| said by Krispy :
It was far more then 2-3 machines, anyway if you are attempting to defend DoS attacks based on size you've lost quite a bit of credibility in my eyes already. And btw, spews and osirusoft are two different lists, we didn't reject mail based on spews, we rejected mail based on queries to relays.osirusoft.com and that was a very respectable list.
Point me to where I was defending a DoS. You can't. I merely and quite accurately pointed out that there wasn't an attack some kind of massive magnitude that you seemed to think it was. So much for -your- credibility. If you weren't using the spews zones he was publishing, you must have been using his out of date lists. The DoS was probably just a convenient out for him since he was so far behind at this point and it probably wasn't worth the effort.
said by Krispy :
Regardless, I've wasted too much time reading your uninformed blather so troll on.
Good. Go back to nanae with the rest of the kooks. |
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