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joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
| Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you This what uncontrolled state spending gets you.
Besides, with the Federal tax cuts, the states are free to raise their own income tax rates. They just don't.
It's not like the Federal tax cuts forced them to raise a LAN tax.
[text was edited by author 2003-08-26 11:30:59] | |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you All states except for Vermont have balanced budget laws:
»slate.msn.com/id/2084993/
quote:
Alabama boasts the most stringent balanced-budget requirement. At the end of the fiscal year, if appropriations have exceeded revenues, the treasury is forbidden from disbursing any more funds. An official who dares dole out an extra cent can be punished with a $5,000 fine, two years in the clink, and impeachment. (No one has ever been so disciplined.)
The problem is, that expenses keep rising. Kinda hard to piss off the voters by saying their Medicare can't be funded anymore...that wouldn't work! | |
| | joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL | Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you Yes, but tax revenues increase as well.
If the states had held spending increases to population growth + inflation, they would not be in fiscal crisis. | |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you said by joebear29  :
Yes, but tax revenues increase as well.
If the states had held spending increases to population growth + inflation, they would not be in fiscal crisis.
Yes, in the laboratory that sounds great.
In the real world, people who need Medicare aren't going to tolerate any caps on that spending, especially when the older generation has a LOT of political clout (AARP, anyone?) and vote in large numbers. Health care issues alone are going to bankrupt the whole country if we're not careful...and wishing it all away isn't going to work.
So-raise taxes to continue benefits, or cut benefits? Both are political landmines for politicians. | |
| | | | joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
| Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you said by garagerock :
Yes, in the laboratory that sounds great.
In the real world, people who need Medicare aren't going to tolerate any caps on that spending, especially when the older generation has a LOT of political clout (AARP, anyone?) and vote in large numbers. Health care issues alone are going to bankrupt the whole country if we're not careful...and wishing it all away isn't going to work.
So-raise taxes to continue benefits, or cut benefits? Both are political landmines for politicians.
So don't cap spending, and tax away.
What I objected to was blaming State budget deficits on Federal tax cuts. If anything, reduced Federal burdens on taxpayers gives the states more room to raise taxes. | |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you Ahhh, but therein lies the rub. Their expenses are always going to rise, and if federal revenues are down (as they are now), how can they raise income taxes without causing collateral political damage? Instead, they raise a knick-knack tax (cigarettes, booze, LAN's) to make up for the shortfall.
Far easier to do than raising income taxes. No state wants to be known as the state that rose income taxes so high it drove the population away (er, wait-isn't that California?) | |
| | | | | | lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL
| Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you Florida voters amended the state constitution some years ago to bar the state from taxing income.
Florida used to get a good chunk of change from tourism revenues. Following 9-11 tourism fell and never completely recovered. Adding to that the tech bubble burst, jobs were lost and the economy went into a recession.
Finally, the voters in 2000 amended the state constitution to require the government build a high-speed rail system. In 2002 they again amended the state constitution to limit class sizes, along with some other dumb-ass amendments. The voters approved all these amendments without a thought as to how they would be funded. | |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you Sorry, that's not reality. Go ahead and cut those benefits...and see who gets handed their asses in the state legislature elections.
Sure, cut expenses for other things-but those Medicare benefits are going to run the whole country out of business when the Boomer generation starts retiring and needing those benefits. We are already experiencing this on a national level...oh wait, new stadiums for the football team are more important.
(God knows I won't comment on your "election" for governor....sheesh!) | |
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kilingspam
join:2001-04-30
San Jose, CA
| You are forgetting that California got ripped off with the fake energy crunch costing the state $38 billion dollars.
The judge only ordered $2 billion to be paid back.
What is wrong with that picture?
If someone raided your bank account of $36 billion dollars kinda hard to balance a budget huh?
Responsible tax cuts are fine if the Federal does it without corruption. Monies I pay in taxes to the feds that should be sent right back are going to pay for contracts signed for rebuilding Iraq. These fed contracts where handed out without any bidding. Hummmm, lets just hand a contract over to Cheneys old company without getting ANY QUOTES! Must be nice to spend my hard earned monies that way!
States are having to do these things because the Bush Admin (Feds) are ripping off every single american, or should I say all but the richest 1% that gave millions for Bush to be handed his seat by a court ruling and not by our votes.
Anyway, would one expect anything different from his brother Jeb? | |
| | | | | | joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
| Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you said by kilingspam :
You are forgetting that California got ripped off with the fake energy crunch costing the state $38 billion dollars.
The judge only ordered $2 billion to be paid back.
What is wrong with that picture?
If someone raided your bank account of $36 billion dollars kinda hard to balance a budget huh?
California did not lose 36 billion to a fake energy crisis. The crisi cam about because first it botched the deregulation by limiting the amount the utilities could charge then they locked themselves into long term contracts right before the prices went up.
Yes, there were some shenanigans, but most of the money lost was due to bad deregulation and foolish contracts.
quote:
Responsible tax cuts are fine if the Federal does it without corruption. Monies I pay in taxes to the feds that should be sent right back are going to pay for contracts signed for rebuilding Iraq. These fed contracts where handed out without any bidding. Hummmm, lets just hand a contract over to Cheneys old company without getting ANY QUOTES! Must be nice to spend my hard earned monies that way!
States are having to do these things because the Bush Admin (Feds) are ripping off every single american, or should I say all but the richest 1% that gave millions for Bush to be handed his seat by a court ruling and not by our votes.
Anyway, would one expect anything different from his brother Jeb?
Even accepting every word you say as true (Haliburton got a sweetheart contract, the tax cut mysteriously involved taking money from poor americans and giving it to rich americans), what does that have to do with state budget deficits? | |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| said by kilingspam :
You are forgetting that California got ripped off with the fake energy crunch costing the state $38 billion dollars.
The judge only ordered $2 billion to be paid back.
What is wrong with that picture?
If someone raided your bank account of $36 billion dollars kinda hard to balance a budget huh?
Responsible tax cuts are fine if the Federal does it without corruption. Monies I pay in taxes to the feds that should be sent right back are going to pay for contracts signed for rebuilding Iraq. These fed contracts where handed out without any bidding. Hummmm, lets just hand a contract over to Cheneys old company without getting ANY QUOTES! Must be nice to spend my hard earned monies that way!
States are having to do these things because the Bush Admin (Feds) are ripping off every single american, or should I say all but the richest 1% that gave millions for Bush to be handed his seat by a court ruling and not by our votes.
Anyway, would one expect anything different from his brother Jeb?
The energy costs aren't part of the budget. They are paid through higher energy rates. The energy distributors like Edison International and SDG&E are the ones who took the hit and now are getting paid back through higher rates. Edison International just announced a price rollback for large energy users because they have reclaimed a portion of their losses and it was large energy users who took the biggest increases (I pay, even as a residential user up to .25/kWh for electricity »Re: Tough Love for California? ).
The $50 billion (as there was initially a $12B surplus was solely caused by excessive spending including 44,000 new gov't jobs during what was supposed to be a hiring freeze. Revenue exceeded both population and inflation in the state while spending increases DOUBLED population and inflation.
The ones who raided the state for billions was Davis and his cronies in the legislature.
As for Halliburton, the contract was temporary (only to fight oil fires and assess damage to the Iraqi oil infrastructure and repair it if necessary, NOT FOR REBUILDING ALL OF IRAQ) and they were the only U.S. corporation who had the resources to do it. It wasn't some scheme...the gov't simply had no alternatives. said by Lt. Gen. Robert B. Flowers, the commander of the Corps of Engineers:
No other contractor could satisfy mission requirements in the time. available
Remember, the thought at the time was that there would be literally hundreds of oil fires which turned out not to be the case and thus there is no billions being paid out. They money paid is only for work done. Little work means about $50 million so far of a possible max of $7 billion. Hardly a conspiracy. Since then, the U.S. Army has put other contracts up for bid. »www.enr.com/news/bizlabor/archiv···0411.asp
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[text was edited by author 2003-08-26 19:20:04] | |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you Thing is, that isn't going to happen. Remember, the Boomer generation is much larger than any other age group. With life expectancies lengthening almost every year, that adds up to a disaster waiting to happen.
We too, will be old someday. Compassion for older people isn't just the right thing to do for them-it's the right thing to do for us, as someday we'll be in their shoes.
Ever seen Logan's Run? Do you propose killing everyone off ceremoniously at age 75? What happens when you turn that age? Will the rules somehow change?
It is really convenient to dispose of old people, until you're the old person in question. That, in a nutshell, is what is happening now.
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"The separation of the power of declaring war from that of conducting it, is wisely contrived to exclude the danger of its being declared for the sake of its being conducted" James Madison
[text was edited by author 2003-08-27 12:30:50] | |
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akristov
join:2001-01-31
Tampa, FL
clubs: | Florida does not have an income tax, hopefully we will not have a LAN tax either. | |
| Benji21126
join:2002-12-04
Mount Juliet, TN | florida doesnt have an income tax | |
| | joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
| Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you said by Benji21126 :
florida doesnt have an income tax
Well, they can raise the investment tax then. Same theory. | |
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tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs: | Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you or do what other states without an income tax (like Texas) have done: raise property taxes. | |
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And yes, this is intended as a joke (at least somewhat intended that way, as there is a sad kernel of truth to it)