garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| reply to oliphant5
Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you
Sorry, that's not reality. Go ahead and cut those benefits...and see who gets handed their asses in the state legislature elections.
Sure, cut expenses for other things-but those Medicare benefits are going to run the whole country out of business when the Boomer generation starts retiring and needing those benefits. We are already experiencing this on a national level...oh wait, new stadiums for the football team are more important.
(God knows I won't comment on your "election" for governor....sheesh!) |
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mrclark
What's That Daddy?
join:2000-08-04
Chicago, IL
|  reply to ronpin
Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you
Um.........WTF?
When have you known politicians to "NOT TRY TO THINK OF WAYS" to get their hands on our money?
And how does this have ANYTHING REMOTELY to do with Federal Tax Cuts?
maybe you could respond with a reasonable "unbiased" view of how you came to this conclusion....because frankly, I'm baffled.
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"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats." - H.L Mencken
[text was edited by author 2003-08-26 15:20:09] |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| reply to Chief Sparky
Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you.
Tell me again how they supported me? I'm not on welfare, I don't have student loans, first time buyer (like FHA) are paid through the buyers themselves with FHA insurance premiums...and uh...I pay taxes too for those roads through $600/yr license fees, nearly .40/gal gas tax (soon to be .65/gal), a 1/2% sales tax hike along with my "contribution" to the general fund...and the fogies are still driving those roads too...and at significantly less cost than I.
If they haven't properly prepared for their retirement, why again is that my problem? Why should I have my retirement hampered because I have to pay even higher taxes to support the irresponsible?
I love this socialist attitude. Where the hell do you think all this money to fuel your utopian aspirations is going to come from huh? It's called the tax base. You raise the taxes, the tax base leaves. So you raise the taxes again, more tax base leaves. Pretty soon, you have nothing but leeches and no one pulling the cart. It's such a simple concept that even YOU could understand it. And think the tax base won't leave. It does. That's what is happening in California. Irresponsible "do-gooder" thinking like yours have run California into bankruptcy.
And voting...that's not going to solve this problem. Everyone votes themselves free stuff. They don't care who they're stealing it from. You think these fogies care that they're taking food from children's mouths everytime their new programs cause massive tax increases? Only what is happening in California will solve this problem. Flee the state...and those that can't or won't...oust the regime that destroyed the state with economic bumbling like you advocate.
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[text was edited by author 2003-08-27 01:59:57] |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| reply to Chief Sparky
said by Chief Sparky  :
Let's see... these "old fogies" worked for 30-40-50 years, supported you, wiped your nose and ass, paid taxes all along to support welfare, student loan programs, welfare, first time home buyer programs, welfare, prisons full of people too stupid or lazy to do anything but commit crimes, welfare, roads for you to drive on, welfare, welfare, and welfare.
So I can use the same argument to pillage from the next generation of young people? Big deal. I work, pay taxes, and pay for other people as well. What makes my contributions any less significant than anyone elses? The only old people I would say I owed anything to would be my parents and those brave veterans who fought in our wars. I have no problem helping them out. Senior citizens are the richest group of people in the USA. They have a lot more money than I do. Why can't those who have the money and assets use them to pay for their own expenses instead of burdening other people with those responsibilities?
said by Chief Sparky :
They have watched state, corporate and federal bungling, mismanagement and outright criminal behavior reduce the pensions they worked all their lives for to incomes below the poverty level. You seem to be missing the fact that these "old fogies" have already paid their dues, and a good portion of yours too.
How so? The yearly expenses for social programs are paid out the same year they are collected. There's no magical "trust fund" out there into which all this money is thrown and then saved till a later date. All social security and medicare all comes out of current taxes and spending. If someone isn't paying taxes and they receive some kind of government benefit, then by definition they are taking it from someone who did pay taxes.
In the future I will have a family eventually and they will become my first priority. I will have to take care of them because they are my responsibility. How will I be able to take care of them if I am taxed to the hilt to pay for people who are selfish and greedy to the point that they will force the younger generation to sacrifice its future for its own short term gain. I lost my shirt in the stock market crash too. Why is my loss any less significant that someone elses?
said by Chief Sparky :
Medicare & Medicaid were programs THEY voted to establish to look after themselves in their old age, and paid for their entire working lives.
No, they voted for it because it passes the buck to someone else. To paraphrase one congressman, any program that robs Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.
said by Chief Sparky :
I love your attitude - it's a symbol of what's wrong with this country.
And the idea of forced wealth redistribution is good for this country? I don't like that idea, but I don't have a problem helping out people that can't do for themselves. I feel that it my moral duty to help those that are less fortunate than me, but that is my own opinion. My problem is with those people who do indeed have the ability to pay for their own problems, but who somehow think that its someone else's responsibility to cover the cost.
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Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet! |
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Benji21126
join:2002-12-04
Mount Juliet, TN | reply to joebear29
Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you
florida doesnt have an income tax |
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joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
| said by Benji21126 :
florida doesnt have an income tax
Well, they can raise the investment tax then. Same theory. |
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Benji21126
join:2002-12-04
Mount Juliet, TN
| reply to pnh102
Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you.
ahhh social security had a gigantic surplus until Bush/Cheeny decided to use it to say, pay Haliburton in the interests of national security? even now, that surplus is being used to fund other "pork" projects, and quickly dwindling. Where and how are they going to replace this money when the boomers really hit? they are going to tax the young people, and put off any true reform.
for me, dont deduct anything from my pay check, i will invest it in a good growth mutual fund, and i wont need the 231. a month for my retirement |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by Benji21126 :
ahhh social security had a gigantic surplus until Bush/Cheeny decided to use it to say, pay Haliburton in the interests of national security? even now, that surplus is being used to fund other "pork" projects, and quickly dwindling.
Jiminy H. Crackers. I can't believe this! Let me say this loud and clear.
THERE NEVER WAS A TRUST FUND
THERE IS NO TRUST FUND
THERE NEVER WILL BE A TRUST FUND
Every single budget that is passed by the Federal government has always lumped the money collected through social security and medicare payroll deductions into the same general fund that all the money collected from any other tax goes. Social security and medicare payments are just line items in the same budget that fund everything else the government wastes our money on does.
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Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet! |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| quote:
THERE NEVER WAS A TRUST FUND
THERE IS NO TRUST FUND
THERE NEVER WILL BE A TRUST FUND
er...care to reiterate that?
»www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/trsummary.html
quote:
What Are the Trust Funds? The trust funds are financial accounts in the U.S. Treasury. Social Security and Medicare taxes, premiums and other income are credited to these accounts, and Social Security and Medicare benefits are paid from them. The only purposes for which these trust funds can be used are to pay benefits and program administration costs
There is a trust fund. It's called the Social Security Trust Fund. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by garagerock :
er...care to reiterate that?
»www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/trsummary.html
This wouldn't be the first thing the government has ever lied about.
If there was indeed a trust fund that was populated since the inception of social security, with all that money being tucked away in some kind of lockbox, then how was the system able to pay out benefits immediately? That money came from the cash on hand the government had. Social security and medicare have been nothing more than legalized Ponzi schemes from the very beginning.
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Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet! |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| reply to garagerock
Yeah, they can call it whatever they want. Just because the money is in a different fold of the wallet doesn't mean it's not in the wallet.
It's the same B.S. symbolism over substance that we come to expect from the left.
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Wall9
Tell Me, Did You See It Too?
Premium
join:2002-06-25
Dupo, IL | reply to Chief Sparky
I'll remember that when I'm collecting the social security that won't be there. |
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kilingspam
join:2001-04-30
San Jose, CA
| reply to oliphant5
Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you
You are forgetting that California got ripped off with the fake energy crunch costing the state $38 billion dollars.
The judge only ordered $2 billion to be paid back.
What is wrong with that picture?
If someone raided your bank account of $36 billion dollars kinda hard to balance a budget huh?
Responsible tax cuts are fine if the Federal does it without corruption. Monies I pay in taxes to the feds that should be sent right back are going to pay for contracts signed for rebuilding Iraq. These fed contracts where handed out without any bidding. Hummmm, lets just hand a contract over to Cheneys old company without getting ANY QUOTES! Must be nice to spend my hard earned monies that way!
States are having to do these things because the Bush Admin (Feds) are ripping off every single american, or should I say all but the richest 1% that gave millions for Bush to be handed his seat by a court ruling and not by our votes.
Anyway, would one expect anything different from his brother Jeb? |
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joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
| said by kilingspam :
You are forgetting that California got ripped off with the fake energy crunch costing the state $38 billion dollars.
The judge only ordered $2 billion to be paid back.
What is wrong with that picture?
If someone raided your bank account of $36 billion dollars kinda hard to balance a budget huh?
California did not lose 36 billion to a fake energy crisis. The crisi cam about because first it botched the deregulation by limiting the amount the utilities could charge then they locked themselves into long term contracts right before the prices went up.
Yes, there were some shenanigans, but most of the money lost was due to bad deregulation and foolish contracts.
quote:
Responsible tax cuts are fine if the Federal does it without corruption. Monies I pay in taxes to the feds that should be sent right back are going to pay for contracts signed for rebuilding Iraq. These fed contracts where handed out without any bidding. Hummmm, lets just hand a contract over to Cheneys old company without getting ANY QUOTES! Must be nice to spend my hard earned monies that way!
States are having to do these things because the Bush Admin (Feds) are ripping off every single american, or should I say all but the richest 1% that gave millions for Bush to be handed his seat by a court ruling and not by our votes.
Anyway, would one expect anything different from his brother Jeb?
Even accepting every word you say as true (Haliburton got a sweetheart contract, the tax cut mysteriously involved taking money from poor americans and giving it to rich americans), what does that have to do with state budget deficits? |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| reply to kilingspam
said by kilingspam :
You are forgetting that California got ripped off with the fake energy crunch costing the state $38 billion dollars.
The judge only ordered $2 billion to be paid back.
What is wrong with that picture?
If someone raided your bank account of $36 billion dollars kinda hard to balance a budget huh?
Responsible tax cuts are fine if the Federal does it without corruption. Monies I pay in taxes to the feds that should be sent right back are going to pay for contracts signed for rebuilding Iraq. These fed contracts where handed out without any bidding. Hummmm, lets just hand a contract over to Cheneys old company without getting ANY QUOTES! Must be nice to spend my hard earned monies that way!
States are having to do these things because the Bush Admin (Feds) are ripping off every single american, or should I say all but the richest 1% that gave millions for Bush to be handed his seat by a court ruling and not by our votes.
Anyway, would one expect anything different from his brother Jeb?
The energy costs aren't part of the budget. They are paid through higher energy rates. The energy distributors like Edison International and SDG&E are the ones who took the hit and now are getting paid back through higher rates. Edison International just announced a price rollback for large energy users because they have reclaimed a portion of their losses and it was large energy users who took the biggest increases (I pay, even as a residential user up to .25/kWh for electricity »Re: Tough Love for California? ).
The $50 billion (as there was initially a $12B surplus was solely caused by excessive spending including 44,000 new gov't jobs during what was supposed to be a hiring freeze. Revenue exceeded both population and inflation in the state while spending increases DOUBLED population and inflation.
The ones who raided the state for billions was Davis and his cronies in the legislature.
As for Halliburton, the contract was temporary (only to fight oil fires and assess damage to the Iraqi oil infrastructure and repair it if necessary, NOT FOR REBUILDING ALL OF IRAQ) and they were the only U.S. corporation who had the resources to do it. It wasn't some scheme...the gov't simply had no alternatives. said by Lt. Gen. Robert B. Flowers, the commander of the Corps of Engineers:
No other contractor could satisfy mission requirements in the time. available
Remember, the thought at the time was that there would be literally hundreds of oil fires which turned out not to be the case and thus there is no billions being paid out. They money paid is only for work done. Little work means about $50 million so far of a possible max of $7 billion. Hardly a conspiracy. Since then, the U.S. Army has put other contracts up for bid. »www.enr.com/news/bizlabor/archiv···0411.asp
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[text was edited by author 2003-08-26 19:20:04] |
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Frank
is chilling
Premium
join:2000-11-03
somewhere
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Chief Sparky
Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you.
said by Chief Sparky :
/rant mode on
Let's see... these "old fogies" worked for 30-40-50 years, supported you, wiped your nose and ass, paid taxes all along to support welfare, student loan programs, welfare, first time home buyer programs, welfare, prisons full of people too stupid or lazy to do anything but commit crimes, welfare, roads for you to drive on, welfare, welfare, and welfare. They have watched state, corporate and federal bungling, mismanagement and outright criminal behavior reduce the pensions they worked all their lives for to incomes below the poverty level. You seem to be missing the fact that these "old fogies" have already paid their dues, and a good portion of yours too. Medicare & Medicaid were programs THEY voted to establish to look after themselves in their old age, and paid for their entire working lives.
I love your attitude - it's a symbol of what's wrong with this country.
If you want to effect meaningful change to the system, then get out and vote. Learn the issues, figure out how to avoid the "Bread and Circuses" trap, and realize that the welfare of the many truly does outweigh that of the few. Then vote.
/rant mode off.
paul
I dont quite understand what you are saying due to the fact that you seem to be talking about federal taxes. In reality the problem that the other guy was talking about (with the old fogies remark) was regarding state taxes.
The majority of the senior citizens in florida have migrated there from other states in order to retire, which means: NO, they havent paid Florida state taxes for 30-40-50 years nor have they supported Florida in anyway and by them moving there they cause Florida to spend more taxes on them which is what I think the other guy was complaining about.
then again.......... that's just my opinion, I could be wrong
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Stop using P2P!, buy pirated cd's instead  |
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TACSPEED
Premium
join:2001-04-14
Tacoma, WA
·Advanced Stream
| reply to pnh102
quote:
No, they voted for it because it passes the buck to someone else. To paraphrase one congressman, any program that robs Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.
I've payed into Social Security and/or Medicare for almost 40 years. I be damn sure to do everything in my power to make sure I get it when I retire!
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91439306
15,000 Watts of Bass Power
join:2002-10-16
New Milford, CT
| reply to garagerock
Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you
said by garagerock :
Far easier to do than raising income taxes. No state wants to be known as the state that rose income taxes so high it drove the population away (er, wait-isn't that California?)
Connecticut, at the end of the 1980s.
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Mark & Mary Ann Weiss
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to pnh102
Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you.
The Trust fund exists.
The problem is, it's only on paper.
It's numbers in a ledger. There's nothing to back it up, because that's spent.
So you have a mountain of non-existent cash.
When the tax revenues of the current tax base can no longer support the expenses of social welfare programs of the older citizens, that's when the crash comes, the collapse, the downfall of the U.S.A....
... and it's not that far off.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by KrK :
When the tax revenues of the current tax base can no longer support the expenses of social welfare programs of the older citizens, that's when the crash comes, the collapse, the downfall of the U.S.A....
Yup, you are absolutely right. I don't think it will lead to a crash or the downfall of America, but it will lead to a lot of people significantly rethinking their selfish mentality of stealing from younger people to pad their own wallets.
A good number of friends of mine that are my age (Generation X) who are having kids have already decided to stop feeding the tax monster by having one parent stay at home. They figure that after all the costs of daycare, higher taxes, extra car insurance, etc. are all taken out of a second income, that they would be making only about $3 an hour at most. So by living on one income, they deny the beast the food it needs to feed itself. My only fear is that the old fogie lobby is so powerful that they will end up pushing through laws that will confiscate peoples' property in order to pay for "entitlements".
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Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet! |
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