This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you

pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD ·Comcast	reply to tiger72 Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. said by tiger72 : what about us? i will have paid into Soc Sec for 40 years, and i wont get s---. thanks. That's exactly what pisses me off the most about the Baby Boomer generation. The whole Me-First, I-Got-Mine-I-Don't-Care-If-You-Get-Yours mentality... UGH. -- Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet!
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-27 14:25:56 ·
oliphant5 Got Identity? Premium join:2003-05-24 Corona, CA	reply to TheGhost 3) Money isn't invested and thus accumulation is eaten at by inflation. Of course there isn't going to be any money at the end. -- Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack McKokkov Motorsports
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-27 14:15:51 ·
TheGhost Premium join:2003-01-03 Lake Forest, IL clubs: ·AT&T U-Verse ·Comcast	reply to TACSPEED Problem is, you paid in for 40 years, but not enough to cover what you will "take out". That is the "unfair" part. The problem is basically two-fold: 1) SSI was meant to be a stop-gap for people who did not have enough at retirement for some unforeseen circumstances. The problem with this is that the "greedy" and "selfish" boomers have not been saving as they should have, they have instead been buying their "needed" BMWs and spa trips and the like, and have not saved as they should have. (There is a Grasshopper and Ants story in here somewhere). 2) People are living longer, though the retirement age has not been raised enough. Boomers have ensure that they will make it out relatively unscathed still being able to retire early, while pushing the burden on future generations. Never has a generation been so selfish and greedy as to impoverish future generations for their own benefit.
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-27 13:54:53 ·
tiger72 SexaT duorP Premium join:2001-03-28 Saint Louis, MO clubs:	reply to TACSPEED what about us? i will have paid into Soc Sec for 40 years, and i wont get shit. thanks. -- UMKC:15051/20689 kbps RoadRunner:2092/369 kbps
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-27 12:33:34 ·
tiger72 SexaT duorP Premium join:2001-03-28 Saint Louis, MO clubs: ·T-Mobile US ·RoadRunner Cable	reply to BosstonesOwn actually, that's a pretty good idea... Tax cigarettes and alcohol even more, and let 50% of the taxes go to the Fed and it goes into elderly benefits; the rest goes to the state. edit: LOL, how the heck do speeders increase expenditures? [text was edited by author 2003-08-27 12:29:54]
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-27 12:28:16 ·
tiger72 SexaT duorP Premium join:2001-03-28 Saint Louis, MO clubs:	reply to joebear29 Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you or do what other states without an income tax (like Texas) have done: raise property taxes.
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-27 12:24:59 ·
garagerock Premium join:2002-06-14 Louisville, KY	reply to NOVA_Guy Thing is, that isn't going to happen. Remember, the Boomer generation is much larger than any other age group. With life expectancies lengthening almost every year, that adds up to a disaster waiting to happen. We too, will be old someday. Compassion for older people isn't just the right thing to do for them-it's the right thing to do for us, as someday we'll be in their shoes. Ever seen Logan's Run? Do you propose killing everyone off ceremoniously at age 75? What happens when you turn that age? Will the rules somehow change? It is really convenient to dispose of old people, until you're the old person in question. That, in a nutshell, is what is happening now. -- "The separation of the power of declaring war from that of conducting it, is wisely contrived to exclude the danger of its being declared for the sake of its being conducted" James Madison [text was edited by author 2003-08-27 12:30:50]
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-27 12:18:15 ·
NOVA_Guy Obama- Commander in Thief Premium join:2002-03-05 ·VOIPo	reply to Chief Sparky Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. said by Chief Sparky : If you want to effect meaningful change to the system, then get out and vote. Learn the issues, figure out how to avoid the "Bread and Circuses" trap, and realize that the welfare of the many truly does outweigh that of the few. Then vote. The old people of America should tremble in fear if the young and middle class ever do start to turn out voting in the same numbers that they do-- then they can find out what "the welfare of the many" truly is. And to give you a hint, it doesn't involve robbing money from the pockets of younger people to pay for Social Security, Medicare, a prescription drug benefit, or anything of the like. When Social Security was established, wasn't the expected lifespan something like 72-75 years? I'll make every old person collected Social Security right now a deal: promise to die at 75, and I'll promise to pay for your life and heath until then without complaining. Yes, I know it sounds cruel, heartless, and uncaring. However, one must realize that in tough times the fat must be trimmed from spending programs. It is unfair to raise taxes just so that some people who have already led full lives can continue to do so on the backs of younger generations. I'm not in favor of eliminating Social Security or Medicare; I'm just in favor of trimming it to a more reasonable level in an effort to make things fair for all of us. -- Cox cable: the hallmark questionable business practices and lousy cable service!
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-27 11:54:43 ·
NOVA_Guy Obama- Commander in Thief Premium join:2002-03-05 ·VOIPo	reply to garagerock Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you said by garagerock : In the real world, people who need Medicare aren't going to tolerate any caps on that spending, especially when the older generation has a LOT of political clout (AARP, anyone?) and vote in large numbers. Health care issues alone are going to bankrupt the whole country if we're not careful...and wishing it all away isn't going to work. Hmmm... If we wasted less money with Medicare, then maybe some of the old farts would die off and the AARP wouldn't have so much power... And yes, this is intended as a joke (at least somewhat intended that way, as there is a sad kernel of truth to it) Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who has two elderly grandmothers and two parents who are just about to start "coming of age". I'm not a big fan of the way that some of these "entitlement" systems have been set up to make the young, working folks support these old retired people for the rest of their lives. Some generation will eventually be screwed with the way things are going, and I'm afraid that generation will be mine. -- Cox cable: the hallmark questionable business practices and lousy cable service!
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-27 11:45:00 ·
garagerock Premium join:2002-06-14 Louisville, KY	reply to joebear29 Please show me some statistics not cooked up in the Fox News headquarters to prove that point. Like this gem, for instance: quote: In 1995, median household net worth generally increased with the age of the householder, rising from $7,428 for householders under the age of 35, to $92,399 for householders 65 years of age and older. »www.census.gov/hhes/www/wealth/1···hts.html Median, again. $92k is pretty good, but not outrageously wealthy as this thread would suggest. And can you define "senior" for me...do you mean 55 and older, 65 and older...this makes a huge difference. Not to mention this gem: »factfinder.census.gov/bf/_lang=e···0US.html Fact: Senior citizens are a full 10% of the individuals in this country living below the poverty level. Not 10% of Senior Citizens, mind you-10% of the population living below the poverty line, of all age groups (33,899,812 people living below the poverty level, which is HORRIBLE and a whole other discussion, as that is 11% of the total population of the United States). Again, I ask that you reply with the facts...not rhetoric. The Census is an accurate listing of these statistics, so if you want to argue the point that their stats are flawed, take it up with the government-I'm just reporting what they have found to be the truth. -- "The separation of the power of declaring war from that of conducting it, is wisely contrived to exclude the danger of its being declared for the sake of its being conducted" James Madison
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-27 11:19:34 ·
joebear29 join:2003-07-20 Alabaster, AL	reply to garagerock said by garagerock : While I won't argue that there are rich senior citizens, I can honestly tell you that they are surely not the richest group of people...to wit: »www.census.gov/hhes/income/incom···ab7.html This page from the Census of 2000 shows that the median income for individuals 65 and over is $19,688 (in 2001) per year. Hardly rich by American standards. Wealth is different from income. Seniors have the most wealth of any age group.
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-27 10:52:20 ·
garagerock Premium join:2002-06-14 Louisville, KY	reply to pnh102 quote: Its because the senior citizens in this country are already the richest group of people While I won't argue that there are rich senior citizens, I can honestly tell you that they are surely not the richest group of people...to wit: »www.census.gov/hhes/income/incom···ab7.html This page from the Census of 2000 shows that the median income for individuals 65 and over is $19,688 (in 2001) per year. Hardly rich by American standards.
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-27 10:43:01 ·
KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK ·AT&T Yahoo ·AT&T DSL Service ·Cox HSI ·AT&T Southwest	reply to KrK There are ways to help the situation by boosting the economy too, but they won't happen either... (and no, Bush's Tax cuts aren't it)... Example: Throw out the entire existing tax code, in it's entirety. Null. Void. Replace with a simple flat tax. That right there would massively boost the economy, give the majority of Americans a nice shot in the arm, plus take a huge burden off of business, large and small. That would kick ass for the economy, unless, of course, you were a tax accountant or Tax Attorney or worked for the IRS, in which case, you just got unemployed. Funnel all the gain in revenue straight into debt payment, while cutting entitlements. End all Subsidies to industries and groups, this would cause some pain, but actually be beneficial in the long run. However, again, as mentioned, all this is political suicide. This I think is why it will take a "Crash" followed by a single leader to make it happen. -- "Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-27 09:39:58 ·
KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK ·AT&T Yahoo ·AT&T DSL Service ·Cox HSI ·AT&T Southwest	reply to garagerock said by garagerock : quote: Note: This could be averted, by painful but necessary fiscal restraint, by a hard-but-necessary cutting off of excess social welfare benefits, and by a pay-down-the debt quit borrowing priority. We'd also have to curtail our foreign activities and at least for awhile greatly scale back military operations »www.fb.com/issues/analysis/Fed_B···002.html As I have repeatedly stated, there isn't a politician alive that would risk his/her political skin by making those sacrifices. Yes, I said that too Garagerock, like you said, preaching to the choir here.... Look: quote: However, none of this is popular, so, none of our politicians will dare do it. Thus, instead of acting in advance, we'll just crash. -- "Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-27 09:30:42 ·
pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD ·Comcast	reply to garagerock said by garagerock : I believe if you make more than a million dollars a year in nontaxed retirement income (hello Bob Dole), you shouldn't receive benefits PERIOD. Obviously you don't need a safety net if you're already pulling down A MILLION FREAKIN' DOLLARS A YEAR THAT'S ALREADY UNTAXED. EXACTLY!!!!! That's exactly the problem. Its because the senior citizens in this country are already the richest group of people. Of course there are poor seniors who don't have a nickel to their name and one can make the case for helping those people out, but as many seniors already have significant financial assets, I don't see a reason as to why they should get extra money out of my hide. We should not have to pay social security and medicare taxes so that people like Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Warren Buffet and the elderly couple which already owns their house can feed off of the public trough. -- Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet!
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-27 09:22:51 ·
garagerock Premium join:2002-06-14 Louisville, KY	reply to ronpin quote: Note: This could be averted, by painful but necessary fiscal restraint, by a hard-but-necessary cutting off of excess social welfare benefits, and by a pay-down-the debt quit borrowing priority. We'd also have to curtail our foreign activities and at least for awhile greatly scale back military operations »www.fb.com/issues/analysis/Fed_B···002.html As I have repeatedly stated, there isn't a politician alive that would risk his/her political skin by making those sacrifices. The link I provided shows some interesting figures. Yes, Social Security and Medicare expenses are the biggest chunk. This is not going to change for the better, rather it's going to get worse as the population ages and retires. You guys that so boldy exclaim you'll never see a dime out of Social Security or use any of the benefits provided by these programs are harping at the wrong choir. You may not use them, but countless others do, and you can't tell me none of you have friends, relatives, coworkers, etc. that use them or will use them in the near future. Our country decided back in the 1930's to make sure there was a safety net for all Americans-get over it. The idea we could return to the Herbert Hoover days is, frankly, laughable at this juncture of history, given the enormous political and financial clout that the older generation owns, and will only get bigger as the demographic known as Baby Boomer starts retiring and needing these benefits. That FACT will not change, and all the hair pulling and name calling is not going to sway millions of Americans from changing their minds on this issue. Does the system need some reforms? You betcha. I believe if you make more than a million dollars a year in nontaxed retirement income (hello Bob Dole), you shouldn't receive benefits PERIOD. Obviously you don't need a safety net if you're already pulling down A MILLION FREAKIN' DOLLARS A YEAR THAT'S ALREADY UNTAXED. We can't reinvent the wheel, but we can address the growing problem of healthcare expenditures that will eventually bankrupt us all unless this issue is addressed. -- "The separation of the power of declaring war from that of conducting it, is wisely contrived to exclude the danger of its being declared for the sake of its being conducted" James Madison
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-27 09:08:13 ·
murdok6100 Avatar. Get It, Avatar? join:2002-06-20	reply to KrK Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. Kind of "Resembles" Communism dont it? Well, not YET anyway...... Murdok610
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-27 08:52:13 ·
BosstonesOwn join:2002-12-15 Everett, MA clubs: ·Comcast	reply to ronpin Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you In the words of my Linux Firewall : Buffer Overrun Detected .... Restarting System man that state needs a reboot -- Need a web host try us at www.servercentral.net... message me directly and we can make you some killer deals.
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-27 05:51:04 ·
KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK ·AT&T Yahoo ·AT&T DSL Service ·Cox HSI ·AT&T Southwest	reply to pnh102 Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. In my opinion, due to the political damage, the politicians won't act before it causes a "crash". What I mean by a crash is we'll reach a point where we'll no longer be able to borrow to sustain spending (because we'll be up to eyeballs in debt already) and the tax revenue won't cover the outlay. At that point, massive social disorder will occur. Basically, we'll default. It will be one of those "Sorry, effective tommorrow, no more Medicare, no more Social Security, no more welfare checks..." etc etc This in turn will crash the economy, and drag the whole world in (When the USA defaults on the national debt, it will hit the entire world). You will see rampant civil unrest, and a suspension of the Constitution (Marshall law) and the creation of a military style state that will last an indeterminate period of time. There will be long lines, stores with no food on the shelves, gas stations with no gas, etc etc It will be interesting to see what comes out of it... but for a while, things will be very, very bad. Note: This could be averted, by painful but necessary fiscal restraint, by a hard-but-necessary cutting off of excess social welfare benefits, and by a pay-down-the debt quit borrowing priority. We'd also have to curtail our foreign activities and at least for awhile greatly scale back military operations. However, none of this is popular, so, none of our politicians will dare do it. Thus, instead of acting in advance, we'll just crash. -- "Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-27 05:13:16 ·
pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD ·Comcast	reply to TACSPEED said by TACSPEED : I've payed into Social Security and/or Medicare for almost 40 years. I be damn sure to do everything in my power to make sure I get it when I retire! LOL... fat chance of that happening. I've been paying in for 10 years and I already know I will never see a penny of that. -- Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet!
	to forum · permalink · · 2003-08-26 22:47:04 ·


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