ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana | This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you
My 0.02 |
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joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
| This what uncontrolled state spending gets you.
Besides, with the Federal tax cuts, the states are free to raise their own income tax rates. They just don't.
It's not like the Federal tax cuts forced them to raise a LAN tax.
[text was edited by author 2003-08-26 11:30:59] |
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IronChefMoto
Premium
join:2001-02-08
Alpharetta, GA |  reply to ronpin
This is what elderly transplants will get you...
The old Floridian farts are draining the state for "me first" healthcare and retirement benefits. Plain and simple. 
IronChefMorimoto |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana | Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you.
OMG -- they still exist |
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| reply to ronpin
Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you
Not really.
The Federal tax cuts don't have much impact on this as far as I see it.
The real issue is the fact that in this lovely state, the old timers managed to get the "no state income tax" law put into the state constitution.
So, they have to find the cash to run the state somehow...and this is just the latest target.
K.
--
TheGlobalMind.com
"On a clear disk you can seek forever" |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| reply to joebear29
All states except for Vermont have balanced budget laws:
»slate.msn.com/id/2084993/
quote:
Alabama boasts the most stringent balanced-budget requirement. At the end of the fiscal year, if appropriations have exceeded revenues, the treasury is forbidden from disbursing any more funds. An official who dares dole out an extra cent can be punished with a $5,000 fine, two years in the clink, and impeachment. (No one has ever been so disciplined.)
The problem is, that expenses keep rising. Kinda hard to piss off the voters by saying their Medicare can't be funded anymore...that wouldn't work! |
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joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL | Yes, but tax revenues increase as well.
If the states had held spending increases to population growth + inflation, they would not be in fiscal crisis. |
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2farfromCO7
join:2000-10-14
Farmington, MI
| reply to GlobalMind
Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get
Of course Florida doesn't have a state income tax. If they relied on a state income tax for revenue, they'd go bankrupt. That's why they have a state investment tax. That way they can tax the entire senior population. A state income tax doesn't make sense in Florida. |
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AnArky
I am in your nightmares.
Premium
join:2001-06-12
Berwyn, IL
clubs: 
| reply to ronpin
Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you
How is that? Show me facts and figures. If you feel you should be paying more taxes then by all means if you recieve a refund every year just tell them to keep it as you do not think you are taxed enough. If you do not they will more than gladly take any donations. Just make your check out to the U.S. Treasury. Maybe... Just maybe they will send it over to your state.
--
One of the Team Starfire Seven! Team Starfire Security and the thorn in Kinguni's side. |
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jelling
Jelling
Premium
join:2003-03-12
Tulsa, OK
| reply to ronpin
Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you.
said by ronpin  :
OMG -- they still exist
OMG -- They still voted themselves into this mess. |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| reply to joebear29
Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you
said by joebear29 :
Yes, but tax revenues increase as well.
If the states had held spending increases to population growth + inflation, they would not be in fiscal crisis.
Yes, in the laboratory that sounds great.
In the real world, people who need Medicare aren't going to tolerate any caps on that spending, especially when the older generation has a LOT of political clout (AARP, anyone?) and vote in large numbers. Health care issues alone are going to bankrupt the whole country if we're not careful...and wishing it all away isn't going to work.
So-raise taxes to continue benefits, or cut benefits? Both are political landmines for politicians. |
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joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
| said by garagerock :
Yes, in the laboratory that sounds great.
In the real world, people who need Medicare aren't going to tolerate any caps on that spending, especially when the older generation has a LOT of political clout (AARP, anyone?) and vote in large numbers. Health care issues alone are going to bankrupt the whole country if we're not careful...and wishing it all away isn't going to work.
So-raise taxes to continue benefits, or cut benefits? Both are political landmines for politicians.
So don't cap spending, and tax away.
What I objected to was blaming State budget deficits on Federal tax cuts. If anything, reduced Federal burdens on taxpayers gives the states more room to raise taxes. |
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| reply to 2farfromCO7
Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get
Sure it does.
There are umpteen thousand folks who move here every day. The only caveat is that in many cases you can't get their income declared...i.e. not legal, cash payments etc. However, there are plenty of folks working here to give substantial income to the state even at a low rate of tax.
It isn't that there is not a state income tax because it doesn't make sense, there isn't one because it has been legislated out of existence.
The crux of my point is that I would much rather get hit once than all of this nickel & dime crap that we're subject to. It's pathetic. There is too much passing of the buck simply because agency X doesn't have the cash to handle issue Y.
(edit: Let me be clear - I wish to keep as much of my $$ as possible, and frankly on the federal side I am amazed at just how damn much tax I have to pay. Having no state tax can be a really cool thing, but you have to manage the lack of that income accordingly. Something that simply has not been done here. Barring the "tax me for looking at the sun" philosophy, I don't see how any of them can bitch and complain that there isn't any $$ to get the job done, when they've killed off the state tax option...and continue to spend like they have all of that cash available.)
K.
[text was edited by author 2003-08-26 13:11:29] |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| reply to joebear29
Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you
Ahhh, but therein lies the rub. Their expenses are always going to rise, and if federal revenues are down (as they are now), how can they raise income taxes without causing collateral political damage? Instead, they raise a knick-knack tax (cigarettes, booze, LAN's) to make up for the shortfall.
Far easier to do than raising income taxes. No state wants to be known as the state that rose income taxes so high it drove the population away (er, wait-isn't that California?) |
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akristov
join:2001-01-31
Tampa, FL
clubs: | reply to joebear29
Florida does not have an income tax, hopefully we will not have a LAN tax either. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| reply to jelling
Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you.
said by jelling :
OMG -- They still voted themselves into this mess.
Of course, they drag everyone else into the endless sieve of paying for the old fogies forever. As a young person, its very hard to see myself actually saving any money because the government is going to tax it away to pay for some old fogie's "free" health care or prescription drug "benefit." Why do old people who are not poor and can afford to pay for these things (by either using their own cash or selling their assets) think they should be entitled to these things at the expense of the young?
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Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet! |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| The american way look at how the goverment is run... Everything for Me nothing for You.
This has given way to the great goverment to this day. Don't get me wrong i love the US.. But things have to change. The people did it in england and left england for the new found land mass called america. now however we can't really go do our own goverment... unless of course we move to the moon or some other planet.
Point is this crap is rediculous. The people more likely to die and get sick should pop the price. ie.. smokers, drinkers .. speeders. These guys should be flipping the bill for the damages they do to the system since it's shown in studies that they require more healthcare later in life.
raise the taxes on that stuff and you are now flipping the bill for themselves. No one should ever be taxed on the internet weather it's voip or data. Thats just wrong. You pay for the access what you do with it should be your right.
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Need a web host try us at www.servercentral.net... message me directly and we can make you some killer deals. |
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lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL
| reply to garagerock
Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you
Florida voters amended the state constitution some years ago to bar the state from taxing income.
Florida used to get a good chunk of change from tourism revenues. Following 9-11 tourism fell and never completely recovered. Adding to that the tech bubble burst, jobs were lost and the economy went into a recession.
Finally, the voters in 2000 amended the state constitution to require the government build a high-speed rail system. In 2002 they again amended the state constitution to limit class sizes, along with some other dumb-ass amendments. The voters approved all these amendments without a thought as to how they would be funded. |
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Chief Sparky
52 Still On Patrol
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Thibodaux, LA
| reply to pnh102
Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you.
quote:
...paying for the old fogies forever. As a young person, its very hard to see myself actually saving any money because the government is going to tax it away to pay for some old fogie's "free" health care or prescription drug "benefit." Why do old people who are not poor and can afford to pay for these things (by either using their own cash or selling their assets) think they should be entitled to these things at the expense of the young?
/rant mode on
Let's see... these "old fogies" worked for 30-40-50 years, supported you, wiped your nose and ass, paid taxes all along to support welfare, student loan programs, welfare, first time home buyer programs, welfare, prisons full of people too stupid or lazy to do anything but commit crimes, welfare, roads for you to drive on, welfare, welfare, and welfare. They have watched state, corporate and federal bungling, mismanagement and outright criminal behavior reduce the pensions they worked all their lives for to incomes below the poverty level. You seem to be missing the fact that these "old fogies" have already paid their dues, and a good portion of yours too. Medicare & Medicaid were programs THEY voted to establish to look after themselves in their old age, and paid for their entire working lives.
I love your attitude - it's a symbol of what's wrong with this country.
If you want to effect meaningful change to the system, then get out and vote. Learn the issues, figure out how to avoid the "Bread and Circuses" trap, and realize that the welfare of the many truly does outweigh that of the few. Then vote.
/rant mode off.
paul
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Duty, Honor, Country, these things above all else... EMC(SS), USN(ret) |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| reply to garagerock
Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you
said by garagerock :
said by joebear29 :
Yes, but tax revenues increase as well.
If the states had held spending increases to population growth + inflation, they would not be in fiscal crisis.
Yes, in the laboratory that sounds great.
In the real world, people who need Medicare aren't going to tolerate any caps on that spending, especially when the older generation has a LOT of political clout (AARP, anyone?) and vote in large numbers. Health care issues alone are going to bankrupt the whole country if we're not careful...and wishing it all away isn't going to work.
So-raise taxes to continue benefits, or cut benefits? Both are political landmines for politicians.
Sure, in California combined increases of population and inflation was 21%. Revenue increased 25%. Spending increased 40%. Now they want another $10 billion in new taxes. And you want to tell me that this isn't a spending problem?
Yes...you cap the friggin' spending. Knock of with the INCREASES in benefits. Etc.
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