bencjedi
join:2002-02-18
Winchester, KY
| Insight AUP Violation [] I received the following e-mail on one of my family accounts, so I called Insight to ask about it.
The only constant 'service' I am knowingly running is terminal services with Windows 2000 Advanced server, so that I can troubleshoot network problems remotely from where I work. This is on port 3389. I suppose WinVNC and PCANywhere are ok? The Insight tech wasn't sure either and ackowledged that he uses these type of terminal services also.
Occassionally I run my ftp to transfer config files to and from work. I asked Insight about this maybe a year ago and they said it was perfectly fine as long as I was not transferring copyrighted material that was not mine. I spoke to their abuse team on this issue and they said for my purposes, an occasional FTP to and from work was fine.
The insight tech support guy told me he thought a system sweep was run to see what ports people had open and that lots of people probably got his message (he said his manager got one himself). He said the whole Blaster worm thing got them edgy about open ports which is why someone above him probably instituted a system-wide port scan and sent those e-mails if any positive hits were found on certain ports.
I am betting I got this e-mail because the FTP service was running on my machine from some files I moved to work from home today. Mind you.. I was told this was ok before by Insight because I was not doing anything illegal.
I just got scared I was losing my Insight account and thought I would post to see who else got hit with this letter. It would be nice if Insight clearly stated whether or not terminal-type services are ok or not. If they are not ok, I am not sure what I will do because overall I like the service I get. I deem my ability to have a remote view of my work's network from outside essential to troubleshooting problems clients at my job call me about. I don't have a phone line and would hate paying more for slower DSL service to set it all up.
I removed my machine fromthe dmz setting on my linksys 4-port wired router. I just have port 3389 opened. Should I be safe now from receiving AUP complain letters? I'll turn off the FTP by port and service just in case that is the reason I received the letter. I'll just have to find another way to transfer files back and forth from work (possibly on CD).
here's the letter:
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Dear Insightbb.com Customer,
To ensure that all Insightbb.com customers consistently receive the highest
quality service available, Insight monitors network usage to ensure that usage
activity does not violate our policies and procedures as detailed in our
Acceptable Use Policy.
It has come to our attention that you are running at least one server on the
network. This is in violation of the Insightbb.com Acceptable Use Policy.
We must hereby notify you to disconnect your server(s) and cease other
activity in violation of the Policy as of today. If you do not comply with
this notice, we will disconnect your Insightbb.com service.
As you know, the use of servers and other such violations of the Policy place
an unusually large burden on the network. Insightbb.com is a residential
service. Bandwidth and data storage resources are designed to support
residential usage. In maintaining compliance with our Policy, we are
protecting the interests of the tens of thousands of customers who are using
the service appropriately.
For more information about the Insightbb.com Acceptable Use Policy, please
visit www.insightbb.com/terms_conditions. We are confident that you
appreciate the urgency of our request and look forward to keeping you as an
Insightbb.com customer in good standing.
Sincerely,
Insight Security | |
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 tallman8251
join:2002-12-29
La Grange, IL
| Re: Insight AUP Violation [] Bencjedi:
I got the same thing. I have been running a web server since day 1 of joining insight and never had a problem. Although I dont get many hits. maybe 10 a day if that. It just serves up some pictures for family and friends..
Not sure what I am going to do at this point. I took it down..
T | |
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adz133
join:2002-12-03
| I got the same message, but I had a slackware box in my DMZ. I hadn't bothered to lock it down yet, so I had about twelve various open port. I had ftp, http, finger, ssh, among other useless things.
I took the machine offline, and I'm going to keep it like that until I get around to closing the extra ports. | |
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zman23
join:2001-12-03
Louisville, KY
| I too, got the message regarding servers. I am running a HTTP server for my own use and testing (I program for a living) and I run my own e-mail server (I don't trust anyone elses). So, I ordered DSL last night and as soon as I get it hooked up (monday) I am going to tell Insight to kiss my ass. They lose my cable modem and cable tv business ($130+ a month). Back to Directv I go  | |
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usk546
Premium
join:2003-02-19
Nicholasville, KY
| Re: Insight AUP Violation [] .
[text was edited by author 2003-08-22 16:55:14] | |
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| kg4evv
Kg4evv
Premium
join:2002-02-18
Fairdale, KY
| You're going to leave Insight simply because you didn't want to comply with their ToS agreement? Sorry to see you go, but ya' gotta look out for number 1 right?
It still boggles my mind.
Anyway...
I believe, if I heard correctly from some contacts of mine, that over 1000+ of these letters had been sent out. Anyone with an open port, AT&T apparently views a server as a server as a server. Regardless of how "legal" or "innocent" the server may be. However the ToS and Eula which everyone agreed to was listed on the InsightBB Software when you installed. If you didn't use the software the information is also available on the InsightBB.Com website here. »www.insightbb.com/terms_conditio···e_policy
And states
quote:
xiii. run programs or servers from the Premises that provide network content or any other services to others. Examples of prohibited programs include, but are not limited to, mail, ftp, http, game, newsgroup, proxy, IRC servers and multi-user interactive forums;
Of course some people chose not to investigate the legal side of things like this, they just jump in and do it and then get mad when they're told they can't. It's amazing.
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de kg4evv 73's 3000/384 XP Professional w00t | |
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IGGY
No Guru Just Here To Help
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-30
Chatham, IL
| Re: Insight AUP Violation [] Yet there are exceptions to these rules or at least stuff that is overlooked. Game servers have said to be ok in the past. It seems this user was told other types of activity we're ok - even though if you take the TOS at face value they clearly would be violations. It's silly that I can't turn on an ftp to let a friend have private legal content or a file I have that they want etc ( nothing illegal ) without having to worry about losing my account. As I've said many times a user should be able to what they want with the bandwidth they're paying for - as long as everything is on the up and up. As long as the connection isn't being used to host a website or 24/7 all year we never close ftp or server then some activities looked at as bad should be allowed. If Insight has problems with some users activities then maybe it's time to do like @Home did and other ISP currently do and offer business class service to all it's user ( if the user upgrades and pays for the service of course). Not just in certain cities either. From what I've read current business class service seems to have some use limits that aren't going to meet a business users needs. It really is time to rethink the current policies and offerings in my opinion. You see that you have customers that have certain needs and wants. It's clearly been shown some users past and present have left because of such restrictions. It's truly time to develop a business model across the board that reflects all customers wants and needs. This isn't the 1st time this has come up in this forum.
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Test Your Security Team Z Member Cable Modem Diagnostics InsightBB 3000/384 XP PRO | |
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usk546
Premium
join:2003-02-19
Nicholasville, KY
| Re: Insight AUP Violation [] .
[text was edited by author 2003-08-22 16:52:47] | |
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IGGY
No Guru Just Here To Help
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-30
Chatham, IL
| Re: Insight AUP Violation [] Which I clearly pointed out if you read my post. Not trying to a pain here. But I'm aware of the fact they offer a business class service.
"Not just in certain cities either. From what I've read current business class service seems to have some use limits that aren't going to meet a business users needs. It really is time to rethink the current policies and offerings in my opinion."
So let me be specific here. Offer a business class service in cities other than a select few in Kentucky and Indiana. And when offering said service - give the business class customer the options they want and can get from other competing companies.
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Test Your Security Team Z Member Cable Modem Diagnostics InsightBB 3000/384 XP PRO | |
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TheOnlyOne
join:2003-04-18 | Doesn't HTTP use port 80? If it does could you change it to a different port? I think if you pay for 3000/128 or the other tier you should be able to use the connection 24/7 as long as it isn't copyrighted stuff. | |
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zman23
join:2001-12-03
Louisville, KY
| Let's get a few things straight. First, I was an @home customer, not an Insightbb customer - they took over the business. I never signed an Insight agreement - whatever that is. I've had my "servers" running for over 3 years and there as been no complaints. I can get DSL for $5 more per month and NO BS non-server agreements.
I guess what upsets me is I had just dumped directv and went to cable so I would have one bill and then I get hit with this BS. I do not need cable that bad - it can be pulled Monday I will not miss a thing. Others here who don't need servers have no problem - I need my servers on the net and if Insight doesn't have that available I will go where I can to find that service. | |
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bencjedi
join:2002-02-18
Winchester, KY
| Heck.. I never signed anything 4+ years ago when I signed up with @home and when Insightbb took over I still didn't sign/agree to anything.
I never got the TV cable service from day 1 at this apartment because I had it a couple years before and the quality was terrible. I'm a satellite man all the way. Unfortunately I could never get the $10 discount with Insight because they refused to offer it to me. If they wanted to be like that to me, I simply was going to pay less and get more TV service for my money at Dish Network. I had a terrible DSL experience in the past and wasn't going to repeat it (basically gte confirmed the neighborhood phone wires were messed up, but wouldn't pay to do anythng about them). I'd get DirecTV (I own a standalone TiVo), but there's a tree in the way and no other place to point the dish, so I am stuck with Dish Network. One great thing about TiVo is being able to completely throw out the VCR, especially if you hack it with a Turbonet card, extract shows you want to archive and burn to DVD. | |
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| Lithium78
join:2003-02-03
Tipton, IN
| Re: Insight AUP Violation [] Based on what I've read in this article, if I host a game server every other weekend I'll be in violation of the TOS agreement. (And agreement I never signed btw)
Sounds pretty crappy to me, in fact, not being able to host a private ftp or test server is really lame. No wonder DSL is getting so many new customers, I'll hang with insight until I get busted for running my game server and then when I do, I'll be making a call to the telephone company to get switched to DSL. (I can get more UL for less than I'm currently paying Insight anyway) | |
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adz133
join:2002-12-03 | I got an email yesterday saying that they sent it to a bunch of people by mistake. Odd. | |
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| zman23
join:2001-12-03
Louisville, KY
| Re: Insight AUP Violation [] There is no LAW broken here only contract. I do not think anyone would pay a fine or go to jail for running a server. If either party is breaking a portion of THE CONTRACT THEY AGREED TO then that party can cancel the contract or ask for relief under the law. Insight wants to shut me off for running a server and I say go ahead and do it. I will also cancel my other services with them and it is NO loss to me but it sure is a loss to Insight and all the others I know that I steer away from these a$$holes. Its their right and my right and Insights loss.
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compugeek
I love making my own beer.
Premium
join:2002-07-30
Pickerington, OH
 ·Insight VOIP
·Vonage
| Re: Insight AUP Violation [] Most if not all of the DSL providers I am aware of or used do not allow servers either. That is unless you pay for the much higher levels of service that are 5-10x more than what you are paying now for cable and internet...
I know for a fact that InsightBB is better than any DSL service out there, I have used SBC, Verizon, WPTC, AOL, Ameritech... I have lived all over the country, and world for that matter, and have never had better service than I have in the numerous times I have had Insight in different places (mostly in Indiana).
Oh well, don't let the door hit you on the A$$ on the way out.
Geek | |
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| | | zman23
join:2001-12-03
Louisville, KY
| Re: Insight AUP Violation [] "Most if not all of the DSL providers I am aware of or used do not allow servers either." Here in Louisville I can get DSL with 4 static IP's, 1500k-down/256k-up(twice Insight's speed) no ban on servers, etc. for $49 / month with no install or modem fee. Trust me, the door is not going to be hitting me in the ass on the way out - I am already gone. | |
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| | | | zman23
join:2001-12-03
Louisville, KY
| Re: Insight AUP Violation [] Just to follow-up. I am now happily on DSL it runs soooo much smooother than Insightbb cable. My DSL modem light does not flash unless I am sending or receiving something. No slow downs, no downtime, nada!
Anyway, I received a call from an Insightbb cable "troubleshooter" wanting to know why I drop their service (3 weeks later??), I told him about the loss of ICMP, slowdowns, etc. and he said that they've lost a few people due to those reasons. I said I dropped their service due to the AUP violation letter and he seemed quite happy that it was due to the AUP and not because of the other problems (I told him I was running an e-mail server, now I am running a lot more servers than that:)). Anyway, seems like a few others or not letting the door hit them in the ass on the way out. | |
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| | | | | | zman23
join:2001-12-03
Louisville, KY
| Re: Insight AUP Violation [] You are quite wrong! There is no limit on servers with the deal I got My AUP states only the normal stuff and there is no mention of servers and I have an e-mail questioning their policies for acceptable use of servers (what I was going to do) and I received and OK from them.
So far I am very happy with my new DSL service. I have line monitoring on and there has not been any disruption in service now for over a month; I could never say that about Insightbb. | |
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indy0365
join:2001-08-25
Franklin, IN
| Let's get a few things straight. First, I was an @home customer, not an Insightbb customer - they took over the business.
??????? I thought @ home went bankrupt ? so all insight was doing WAS starting a service of their own ?
I dont think they took it over ?
" I never signed an Insight agreement - whatever that is"
dont think you have to as soon as you started using the service you probably subject to the terms of service
but I would go dsl to if I was unhappy but I dont think insight will miss 1 or 2 or even 10 users thats a turn over rate they have accepted or built into their cost of doing busness you lose sum you win sum
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2kmaro
Think
Premium,ExMod 1 BC
join:2000-07-11
ColossalCave
clubs:  
| Lets get back to the original issue: bencjedi  and the letter from Insight.
You might speak with your local office, telling them of the letter you received and of your earlier conversations with them regarding using an FTP server for personal file exchange between your residence and your workplace. Most providers do permit that type of usage (Cox does). Be sure and get the name of the person you speak with, especially if they give you another "it's ok" response. You might also ask them to clarify the letter and tell you specifically what server you supposedly are running. Of course, you can use netstat to determine what ports are currently listening and get a clue from that. Might be you have something besides 21, 3389 and/or 80 open?
Now: these other issues. Why do people continue to try to get by on their provider by running servers? Doesn't Insight provide you with free web space with your account? There are plenty of places that make web site space available at no $$ cost, and many more that offer it for under $10/month. I have a site hosted by a hosting company and it runs me under $9/month, has UNLIMITED bandwidth usage and they do all the worrying about security. Here's a whole list of BBR member recommended hosting services: »/forum/r···c3340266
I too was an @Home user, and the same rules applied with them as do now with Cox. I never figured it any differently, and anyone who ever took a contracts class knows that agreements in effect carry over to the new owner when you have a situation like the demise of @home, so "I never signed anything with..." doesn't hold much water. To me it's kind of a personal thing: I like to think I'm a person who keeps their word, with or without a contract. I "promised" @Home I wouldn't run servers, and that promise carries over to Cox even without anything with Cox at the top of it and my signature at the bottom.
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Man - the animal voted least likely to leave well enough alone. | |
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KyHillBilly
join:2003-08-04
Lexington, KY
| Sure sounds like a lot of whiners here!!!! If you people are that unhappy with something you are paying for, don't pay for it anymore and go somewhere else. I really like this stuff, I think it is cheap considering my options.
But what do I know, I'm just an antagOnistic HillBilly!
MY OPINION | |
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| Lithium78
join:2003-02-03
Tipton, IN
| Re: Insight AUP Violation [] I agree, I think Insight should rephrase the wording of their TOS. Server for personal use should be allowed, provided you aren't earning income in any way from using it and you aren't using 100% bandwidth at all times. For me, I run a game server once every other month to host a game for a group of friends..... For the life of me I can't see how this would effect anyone or anything, and hopefully Insight won't ever get on my case about it. If they do I'll have to find an ISP that doesn't mind if I run a game server occasionally, if they don't then everyone can remain happy. :P | |
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bencjedi
join:2002-02-18
Winchester, KY
| I pay for 3000kbps down, 128kbps up and if I use 100% of it, than I am getting what I pay for, right?
I use my upload bandwidth for more than terminal services and the occassional FTP of a file to or from work. On one instance I made a nice SVCD of some personal family vacation footage I shot and uploaded to a newsgroup. It was a really long upload to say the least, but shouldn't Insight be specific about this type of thing and whether it is ok or not? I mean it is not a copyrighted video (but I bet they thought it was). I didn't notice anything in their TOS about sharing home videos. I was thinking of sending almost a gig of home video footage I shot to my brother's FTP on OptOnline, but wonder if Insight will bust be for using 100% of the bandwidth I am paying for to send it.
How is using personal webspace or webspace on another server going to prevent the home user from using 100% of their upload bandwidth? The problem I have with the personal webspace is a measly 10MB. I couldn't store my 800MB SVCD that I want to share with my family. With another webserver I would still be using 100% off my 128kbps to upload it over a long period.
I hope Insight specifcally addresses these issues if they edit that TOS. | |
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IGGY
No Guru Just Here To Help
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-30
Chatham, IL
| Re: Insight AUP Violation [] If Insight is doing a port scan and find a port open - they might send out a letter or investigate a bit further - from my understanding. So yes in my opinion you could have an ftp setup or running and if it was running when they scanned and they found it open - they might in fact send an email notifying you that your in violation of the TOS. Personally I've never seen them be this harsh. But maybe things are changing do to the current worm, trojan, virus mess going around the past few weeks.
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Test Your Security Team Z Member Cable Modem Diagnostics InsightBB 3000/384 XP PRO | |
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| Laggy
join:2002-05-07
Indianapolis, IN | If your going to setup something for remote access be smart and don't use default port settings. That way when they do the scans like they always do they won't get any reply on the ports they check. | |
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| | kg4evv
Kg4evv
Premium
join:2002-02-18
Fairdale, KY | Re: Insight AUP Violation [] I've been using Windows XP remote desktop from work all the time. Been doing that for months now. No noise over it yet.
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de kg4evv 73's 3000/384 XP Professional w00t | |
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adz133
join:2002-12-03 | What IP addys do they scan from? | |
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| kg4evv
Kg4evv
Premium
join:2002-02-18
Fairdale, KY
| Re: Insight AUP Violation [] Friend of mine received the letter, he wasn't sure exactly what ports he had open, or that he even had an open port. He called me up at home, I took a look. I tried to telnet into his IP, no luck. I typed his IP in my Mozilla Firebird, no luck. So I FTP'd into his IP and in I went. Completely anonymous.
I believe Insights main concern isn't the usage of Bandwidth when someone runs a small server. In that regards Anarchist is correct of course. Who in their right mind would WANT to run a major server of any type with only 128kbps cap in the first place? Anyone who is serious about running a server of any type wouldn't want cable anyway, DSL would be the obvious choice. Anway, I believe Insight's main concern is the fact that if this "Abuse" team at AT&T or Insight's Team are able to scan a certain field of IP addresses, looking for open ports, then so can anyone else. People complain day in and day out, about Insights "Stupid little rules" and "this is all bs, if I wanna run a server I'm going to" and also "I never agreed" blah blah blah, yeah whatever. Get a clue.
Hide your stuff, don't leave it dangling out there for some person who has way to much time on his hands to stumble across, tunnel his way into, and cause havoc. If Insight can find it, so can someone else. Bottom line.
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de kg4evv 73's 3000/384 XP Professional w00t | |
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anarchist4000
join:2001-03-28
Cicero, IN
| There is no possible way hosting a server on insight's network can eat up the bandwidth. That's what the 3000/128 is for anyone who didn't know. You can download 3000kbps and upload 128. In just about any case you would consume far more bandwidth downloading something than you would uploading something.
Even if you were to host a server it would be painfully slow. FTP's would be getting 16KB/s speeds as they uploaded something and that's if they actually managed to get the fully rated line speed. If you assume for most multi player games you want about 3KB/s per user, if not more. That basically limits you to 5 people on the server at any given time and it would lag while you were playing due to using that much of the bandwidth and as unstable as pings are on cable anyways.
Besides most offering's for DSL can get you much better speed than what insight is offering for a better price. Even if the quoted speed is less than 3000/128 DSL will be able to sustain it's quoted rate much better and pings will be more stable as well.
[text was edited by author 2003-08-27 20:38:31] | |
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IGGY
No Guru Just Here To Help
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-30
Chatham, IL | Re: Insight AUP Violation [] Yep 12 to 14K used to be my average - with a good evening being 16. But most of the time it was steady at 14 when I had the 128 package. | |
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| CompuKid101
join:2002-03-19
Lafayette, IN | Exactly! They already have us by the balls with out shitty upload speeds! How can they expect a server on 128kbps to "harm other user's experience"? | |
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Stu_Pidaso
join:2003-08-30
Jeffersonville, IN
| I also run a website on IIS on Windows 2K Server. Several months ago I received the identical message. However I questioned the "Server" policy via e-mail. The reply that I received from insight informed me that "They were policing servers that were using a lot of broadband" (IE FTP Sites, File Sharing servers, SQL servers, etc.), that it appeared that I was not, and that I could restart my web server.
I hope this helps. | |
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Stu_Pidaso
join:2003-08-30
Jeffersonville, IN
| Another thing that I will mention. If you will look at the logs for your FTP and Website, you wiss see a lot of activity with long /GET strings with NNNNN or zzzz or /get Scripts. A large number of these are from machines that are infected with Code Red, Nimda And the Blaster worms. I have researched some of the IP addys that are hitting my site and find that they are running infected sites that have not been patched. Some since '99. A number of these are 12.220.xxx.xxx IP's which are Insight and ATTBI IP's.
IF you are using IIS on your machine 1. Make sure you have all of the critical updates installed 2. Get a Firewall and 3. Use an antivirus and update definitions regularly (I do it weekly) and Scan daily.
Again, I hope this helps. | |
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blondboy71
@insightBB.com | Well, I work for insightbb tech support and insight is never going to do tiered service! Only the 384 up with a price tag of 35 bones. Thats all I've got to say about that | |
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robbym627
Premium
join:2003-09-14
Springfield, IL
 ·surpasshosting
 ·Comcast
| Re: Insight AUP Violation [] blondboy71 what office do you work in? How can you say they never will? Are you in management? Are you a decision maker? According to your post you work in tech support. I work for Insight tech support as well and the last time I checked we don't have much say in the matter. | |
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IGGY
No Guru Just Here To Help
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-30
Chatham, IL
| This is rather funny. Unless things have changed - which since there is a new president presiding over the company maybe things have. But we already have 1 new tier so your theory is shot to what comes out a persons backside now isn't it? Also some people a bit higher up the food chain have clearly stated that tiers are coming. Let's use a cable analogy - the cable company knows from experience that offering different tiers for cable tv leads to profits. They also know if they can do this with broadband they should see the same type of results they do with there cable offerings. So tiers will come into play if only for the fact that other companies DSL and cable are starting to offer such packages.
"Hmm...how long do you think it'll take until your DSL provider catches up to you?"
Actually most DSL providers are PRO servers. Thus a major reason people choose DSL over cable when they have choice. So I doubt they will care. I'm not a big SBC fan but like this quote.
"Telephone companies offering DSL service in the United States say they have no limits in place for their users, unlike Canadian, British or Australian counterparts that routinely cap their subscribers' usage. Verizon Communications and SBC Communications, the largest DSL providers in the United States, both said their services remain unlimited.
"The customers buy the lines," SBC spokesman Michael Coe said. "We make whatever bandwidth they need available to them."
»news.com.com/2100-1034-5079624.html Also here sometime later today »www.iggyz.com/files/news.html
Truth is if you tell a customer they have so much bandwidth they pay for and can use you'd best be able to provide all those customers with that bandwidth at all times. I don't think most companies have this view or there networks setup this way. Cable companies loose a lot of business because they don't want to be flexible and offer the customer what they want. If they approach broadband more like they do there tv offerings. I'd bet you'd see even happier customers.
" I see you getting shutdown faster than the Springfield, IL Taco Bells!"
Inside local joke - but very funny!! Don't expect to come to Springfield and get your Taco Bell fix. Heck we had like 4 or 5 maybe more. Now we have none and they did a good business. I want my ‘Yo Quiero Taco Bell’ »www.tacobell.com/ourcompany/pres···ahua.htm
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Test Your Security
Team Z Member
Cable Modem Diagnostics
InsightBB 3000/384 XP PRO
[text was edited by author 2003-09-23 03:05:41] | |
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