KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
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| reply to oliphant5
Re: I say
The problem is the middlemen and the large monopolies over distribution and processing of food (Often called AgriBusiness)
The Farmers get paid dirt for their product. The Consumers get raped with high prices at the supermarket.
So, if we're paying so much for food, why are farmers in such bad shape? Easy: The Agribusiness in the middle makes billions--- we overpay and they underpay (the farmers). Classic, isn't it?
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"Standing by a president (Bush) when right or wrong "is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." --- President Theodore Roosevelt 1918 |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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Tulsa, OK
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Ethanol is a joke, a big tax subsidy for huge Agribusiness like ADM. Guess what: It takes more energy to make, ship, and blend one gallon of ethanol then the power it produces. In other words, to make ethanol we actually use MORE energy, not less.
Ethanol also increases other types of pollution in exhaust. This whole "Ethanol in Gasoline" is a JOKE which will drive up Gasoline at the pump while providing no or little benefit--- while BILLIONS will go back into the pockets of large Agribusiness like ADM.
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"Standing by a president (Bush) when right or wrong "is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." --- President Theodore Roosevelt 1918 |
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Googled
Yay, I have FIOS
join:2001-08-13
Orchard Park, NY
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| reply to KrK
said by KrK  :
So, if we're paying so much for food, why are farmers in such bad shape? Easy: The Agribusiness in the middle makes billions--- we overpay and they underpay (the farmers). Classic, isn't it?
Hmm, sounds a lot like RIAA  I imagine this same scenario repeats itself in many industries. Much like using foreign labor. They get paid dirt cheap wages, yet Americans buying the products haven't seen the prices for those products go down. |
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td2341
join:2002-02-17
Alexandria, VA
| reply to oliphant5
Ethanol=no energy dependence solution
Convert nearly all of the corn and wheat produced in the nation to ethanol, say 11 Billion Bushels (saving some wheat back to make bread), would yield only about 2,000,000 barrels of oil equivalent per day, while our oil use is 20,000,000 barrels per day, 11,000,000 of which is imported. In addition, the energy cost cost to produce grain based ethanol amounts to about 80% of the ethanol output, reducing the 2 million barrels of oil equivalent to 400,000 barrels per day.
Yes use ethanol, but it is not "the" answer for rural America or lessened the amounts of universal service funding needed to support high cost rural telecom infrastructure - |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
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join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| 1. You're talking about Corn CURRENTLY produced, ignoring the fact that CURRENTLY there isn't the market for the increase in volume. If the demand is there, production will be increased to meet it.
2. That assumes that ethanol would be substituted for fossil fuels in all circumstances. Also incorrect. |
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oliphant5
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Corona, CA
| reply to KrK
Re: I say
said by KrK :
Ethanol is a joke, a big tax subsidy for huge Agribusiness like ADM. Guess what: It takes more energy to make, ship, and blend one gallon of ethanol then the power it produces. In other words, to make ethanol we actually use MORE energy, not less.
Ethanol also increases other types of pollution in exhaust. This whole "Ethanol in Gasoline" is a JOKE which will drive up Gasoline at the pump while providing no or little benefit--- while BILLIONS will go back into the pockets of large Agribusiness like ADM.
Joke...sure, if you're lame and believe the oil companies. Meanwhile, all energy takes more energy to produce than you get...it's called conservation of energy. And you think MTBE (a hazardous pollutant of ground water and cancer causing agent) and other attitives aren't a joke? Ethanol is non-toxic and 100% organic.
According to a report released by the U.S. Department of Agriculture in August 2002 a renewable fuels standard would increase corn prices and increase net farm income by $700 million per year, while at the same time reduce the trade deficit by $4.45 billion annually and create 13,500 new jobs in the United States.
And you think that Gasoline is only $1 a gallon? »www.icta.org/projects/trans/rlprexsm.htm Sure...that's what oil companies would have you believe.
Try $15 per gallon.
[text was edited by author 2003-06-13 13:18:05] |
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dirtcyclr
join:2003-06-13
Montana
|  reply to calvoiper
Re: I say --> Another perspective!
said by calvoiper :
Uh, actually, you'll find that urban, not rural, folks have longer average commutes....
Calvoiper
Urban commutes may be longer timewise, but not even close in mileage! I've lived under both circumstances (CA Bay Area vs. Eastern Montana). Once again, this is a decision that you have to make based on what you want out of life... I agree that the government should not play a role in evening out what you see as being unfair cost of living (i.e. gas prices and housing costs), economics should control that.
The USF is not about controlling prices, but rather providing a financial avenue for equal opportunity. I think "Americans" should have an opportunity to have access to basic utilities such as telephone, electricity, etc. Technologies such as fiber optics can make it all possible, but "big business" wouldn't even think of doing such a thing because the returns are not in their favor!
It costs over 10 times the national average per local loop to provide POTS where I live, so without USF it would be completely impossible for my co-op to even provide telephone service, let alone any "advanced telecommunications" services such as DSL (which i do have by the way).
I would also like to add that there are now rural areas such as mine that actually have better broadband services than some urban areas. This is not because Universal Service Funds have been misplaced, it is because my services are provided by a smaller company/co-op that believes in offering quality services with a personal touch. The whole USF issue centers around combatting greed and the hunger for power/control, it makes everyone on both sides of the fence unhappy at times. |
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BrooklynZoo
For Everthing Else, There's Mastercard
join:2001-04-01
Atlanta, GA | Interesting perspective.  |
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LegoPower77
Abecedarian
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join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
| reply to dirtcyclr
Fair enough (even with the leftist code words, e.g., "big business," "greed", etc. ). But I ax, is there some point where we can acknowledge that wiring is done and discontinue the tax? I hear that we are still paying some charge that was levied on phone bills in the 1900s to help pay for the Spanish-American War (I can find documentation but too lazy right now). The trouble with these programs and taxes is that they never end (while we put sunset provisions on tax relief). Al Gore's tax to wire schools is case in point —they are almost all wired now, will the tax end?
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»www.gmu.edu/departments/economic···any.html |
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oliphant5
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Corona, CA | The Spanish-American war tax is also known as the excise tax. The tax will never end because in this talk about greed, there is no more greedy entity than the Federal government. |
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LegoPower77
Abecedarian
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join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
| reply to LegoPower77
Re: I say
since it's an active server page, it changes frequently. . .the one was about ethanol.
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»www.gmu.edu/departments/economic···any.html |
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LegoPower77
Abecedarian
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join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
| reply to oliphant5
Re: Ethanol=no energy dependence solution
said by oliphant5 :
If the demand is there, production will be increased to meet it.
Just let me know so I can go long C.
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»www.gmu.edu/departments/economic···any.html |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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Tulsa, OK
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| reply to oliphant5
Re: I say
Ethanol is not the magic bullet, it's not the free renewable energy source as it's often touted. Ethanol solves some problems and creates others.
We'd be better off looking at long term solutions then stop gap ones... especially if the benefit is negligible.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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