LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium
join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
| I say Since it is more costly to wire rural areas, and we all pay for them because of that. . . Then they should have a Universal Housing Fund because real-estate is more costly in metropolitan areas. Let the bumkins help pay for my housing.
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»www.gmu.edu/departments/economic···any.html | |
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Smokey
Even drunk on a bet ya make it to Canada
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs: | Re: I say good luck trying to get this to pass! | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: I say The problem is, it's already passed. The enabling legislation is in place, and all it takes is 3 of the 5 people at the FCC to agree to impose it.
Now look at it this way: If you were a bureaucratic functionary in the government, at a likely high-water mark for your career, and your staff told you that if you vote "yes" on this proposal, you'll have several extra billion dollars to play with and make some of your (ersatz) friends happy, what are you going to do?
Yes--this is the sad state of affairs our government has been reduced to.
Calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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| | Tom Zachman
join:2002-12-01
Dodge City, KS
| Re: I say It's corporate welfare....
The benefits are very visible in areas served by Rural Telcos. The benefits are invisible to none in rural areas underserved by the RBOCs.
Note to eddy whitacre: Your company sucks wind in the rural markets in Kansas. | |
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ib50MbSoon
Formerly TwoKDialup
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Coloma, MI
| From the FCC Website at »www.fcc.gov/wcb/universal_service/
The goals of Universal Service, as mandated by the 1996 Act, are to promote the availability of quality services at just, reasonable, and affordable rates; increase access to advanced telecommunications services throughout the Nation; advance the availability of such services to all consumers, including those in low income, rural, insular, and high cost areas at rates that are reasonably comparable to those charged in urban areas. In addition, the 1996 Act states that all providers of telecommunications services should contribute to Federal universal service in some equitable and nondiscriminatory manner; there should be specific, predictable, and sufficient Federal and State mechanisms to preserve and advance universal service; all schools, classrooms, health care providers, and libraries should, generally, have access to advanced telecommunications services; and finally, that the Federal-State Joint Board and the Commission should determine those other principles that, consistent with the 1996 Act, are necessary to protect the public interest.
That paragraph sure sounds nice but last time I checked on ISDN prices it would cost approx $300 to install and $180/mo in recurring fees, ISP not included. Hardly what I call "just, reasonable, or affordable". I don't know where all that USF money is going but its not helping this "bumkin".
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The whole truth and nothing but the truth at »www.teletruth.org
[text was edited by author 2003-06-10 16:07:35] | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA | Re: I say I don't think WorldCom was ever a recipient of USF monies while Ebbers was there. They didn't go into the areas USF supports.
Calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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Smokey
Even drunk on a bet ya make it to Canada
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs: | Re: I say ya, Whats Reasonable??? The gov has a hard time filling in that blank! | |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
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join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| Re: I say Not only that but as Californians pay $2.30-$2.60/gal during the summer for gasoline, how about a USF so we pay the same at the South East? How about a USF for electricity and water rates? No reason why one person should pay $40/mo and another pay $10 for monthly sewer rates. How about a USF that makes freight rates with UPS, Fedex and Airborne flat versus distance based...seeing as in telecom the actual cost of delivery is to be ignored and absorbed by everyone else. How about a USF that builds airports everywhere since everyone should be entitled to fair and just air fares.
Hell, let's just have a 100% tax and have daddy government hand out what we get like Smurfberries.
People who move into the middle of nowhere know what they're getting into. If you want or need certain services then you should think about that when you choose a place to reside.
Don't move to the moon then bitch that you aren't getting cable internet.
[text was edited by author 2003-06-10 18:29:59] | |
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Smokey
Even drunk on a bet ya make it to Canada
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs:
 ·Cox HSI
| Re: I say not sure, but u do pay it. In az its called HURF highway user fund. so again ur paying oliphant!! Nad why cant i get my net on the moon???
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If there is any realistic deterrent to marriage, it's the fact that you can't afford divorce. -- Jack Nicholson | |
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Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS
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LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium
join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
| My point is that there are trade-offs as to where you live. In the city, you get close access to work, a night life, and of course, less-expensive broadband. But you also get smog, noise, and a high cost of living. In the country, you get nature, scenery, and a quiet life. But you also have to drive ten miles to the store and pay higher prices for broadband. How about we start a fund to help subsidize country people's gasoline bill since they have to drive further to the store?
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»www.gmu.edu/departments/economic···any.html | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA | Re: I say Uh, actually, you'll find that urban, not rural, folks have longer average commutes....
Calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium
join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA | Re: I say Perhaps, but the point is the same. | |
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| | | dirtcyclr
join:2003-06-13
Montana
| Re: I say --> Another perspective!said by calvoiper  :
Uh, actually, you'll find that urban, not rural, folks have longer average commutes....
Calvoiper
Urban commutes may be longer timewise, but not even close in mileage! I've lived under both circumstances (CA Bay Area vs. Eastern Montana). Once again, this is a decision that you have to make based on what you want out of life... I agree that the government should not play a role in evening out what you see as being unfair cost of living (i.e. gas prices and housing costs), economics should control that.
The USF is not about controlling prices, but rather providing a financial avenue for equal opportunity. I think "Americans" should have an opportunity to have access to basic utilities such as telephone, electricity, etc. Technologies such as fiber optics can make it all possible, but "big business" wouldn't even think of doing such a thing because the returns are not in their favor!
It costs over 10 times the national average per local loop to provide POTS where I live, so without USF it would be completely impossible for my co-op to even provide telephone service, let alone any "advanced telecommunications" services such as DSL (which i do have by the way).
I would also like to add that there are now rural areas such as mine that actually have better broadband services than some urban areas. This is not because Universal Service Funds have been misplaced, it is because my services are provided by a smaller company/co-op that believes in offering quality services with a personal touch. The whole USF issue centers around combatting greed and the hunger for power/control, it makes everyone on both sides of the fence unhappy at times. | |
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LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium
join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
| Fair enough (even with the leftist code words, e.g., "big business," "greed", etc.  ). But I ax, is there some point where we can acknowledge that wiring is done and discontinue the tax? I hear that we are still paying some charge that was levied on phone bills in the 1900s to help pay for the Spanish-American War (I can find documentation but too lazy right now). The trouble with these programs and taxes is that they never end (while we put sunset provisions on tax relief). Al Gore's tax to wire schools is case in point —they are almost all wired now, will the tax end?
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»www.gmu.edu/departments/economic···any.html | |
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oliphant5
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join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA | Re: I say --> Another perspective! The Spanish-American war tax is also known as the excise tax. The tax will never end because in this talk about greed, there is no more greedy entity than the Federal government. | |
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zoom314
Superman
Premium
join:2001-04-30
Yermo, CA
| Besides what in the heck does the 1996 Telecommunications Act have to do with Cable? Last time I looked the Cable TV/ISP providers aren't or haven't ever been a Telco at all. So, FCC (Michael Powell) Keep Your Hands off of Cable, It's not Telephone related service without voice capability and ethernet isn't a phone technology at all and neither is Cable TV service for that matter.
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Charter Pipeline rules in Hesperia, CA, Verizon sucks..... | |
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Smokey
Even drunk on a bet ya make it to Canada
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs:
·Cox HSI
| Re: I say the telecom act has the power to regulate all forms of communicatins, it was that large of a bill! Its also what allowed the cable services that we have today
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If there is any realistic deterrent to marriage, it's the fact that you can't afford divorce. -- Jack Nicholson | |
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| | mrs213
join:2002-05-25
Pittsburgh, PA
| That was terribly lucid.
The FCC needs jurisdiction over cable services, if they're going to compete in the same space/serve the same functions as Our Friends the Phone Comp'nies. The FCC is not just about phone: it's about communications (see the acronym for more information). If they can regulate broadcast radio and TV, cable is a simple leap.
Don't let blind anger screw up your logic. I'm not sure I like Powell very much either, but hey. | |
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Tom Zachman
join:2002-12-01
Dodge City, KS
| From your link to a 5 year old Walter E. Williams comment: quote:
benefits should at least equal costs.
Should you ever need to communicate to us bumkins, write us a letter. Should you ever want us to come visit you, we'll gladly move into your subsidized house for our stay. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: I say Actually, if I need to communicate with you, I'll just pick up the phone. After all, I am already paying for it.
Now, about that housing subsidy you think you're paying but I'm not getting, please send the money NOW.
Calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
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join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| Re: I say said by morbo :
said by LegoPower77 :
Since it is more costly to wire rural areas, and we all pay for them because of that. . . Then they should have a Universal Housing Fund because real-estate is more costly in metropolitan areas. Let the bumkins help pay for my housing.
sure! and those 'bumkins' that grow and raise the food that you eat should start charging 10x what they get now. i'm positive next week you'll be posting a whine about how a big mac value meal that used to cost $5 now costs > $30.
We're already paying that charity in the form of the Farm Bill. | |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
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join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| Re: I say said by morbo :
said by oliphant5 :
We're already paying that charity in the form of the Farm Bill.
lucky for you. else you'd be complaining about the high price of food.
No I wouldn't...I'd just buy imported food. | |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
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join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| Re: I say Only if you're shortsighted.
Have them enter a different market eg making ethanol. It reduces the dependence on foreign oil (keeps the money here in the US) as well as being a renewable resource (good for the environment) that is far more clean burning that traditional fossil fuels (also good for the environment)...PLUS there isn't that much R&D necessary to mass produce ethanol burning vehicles...Ford already does it. Availability of Ethanol is what is killing Ethanol. Put farmers and the super farm corporations like ADM into the fuel business. Imagine turning the midwest into the middle east, except CO absorbing 02 producing corn fields as far as the eye can see. You think then there wouldn't be the money for rural communities to build their own infrastructure? They would be bathing in the billions now sent to the middle east oil barrons.
And the taxes only rise if you give away money. The endless cycle is only there if you let it be.
Take off the blinders and you'll see the obvious solutions and they need not come from daddy government.
[text was edited by author 2003-06-11 13:03:54] | |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
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join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| Re: I say said by KrK :
Ethanol is a joke, a big tax subsidy for huge Agribusiness like ADM. Guess what: It takes more energy to make, ship, and blend one gallon of ethanol then the power it produces. In other words, to make ethanol we actually use MORE energy, not less.
Ethanol also increases other types of pollution in exhaust. This whole "Ethanol in Gasoline" is a JOKE which will drive up Gasoline at the pump while providing no or little benefit--- while BILLIONS will go back into the pockets of large Agribusiness like ADM.
Joke...sure, if you're lame and believe the oil companies. Meanwhile, all energy takes more energy to produce than you get...it's called conservation of energy. And you think MTBE (a hazardous pollutant of ground water and cancer causing agent) and other attitives aren't a joke? Ethanol is non-toxic and 100% organic.
According to a report released by the U.S. Department of Agriculture in August 2002 a renewable fuels standard would increase corn prices and increase net farm income by $700 million per year, while at the same time reduce the trade deficit by $4.45 billion annually and create 13,500 new jobs in the United States.
And you think that Gasoline is only $1 a gallon? »www.icta.org/projects/trans/rlprexsm.htm Sure...that's what oil companies would have you believe.
Try $15 per gallon.
[text was edited by author 2003-06-13 13:18:05] | |
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| | | | | | td2341
join:2002-02-17
Alexandria, VA
| Convert nearly all of the corn and wheat produced in the nation to ethanol, say 11 Billion Bushels (saving some wheat back to make bread), would yield only about 2,000,000 barrels of oil equivalent per day, while our oil use is 20,000,000 barrels per day, 11,000,000 of which is imported. In addition, the energy cost cost to produce grain based ethanol amounts to about 80% of the ethanol output, reducing the 2 million barrels of oil equivalent to 400,000 barrels per day.
Yes use ethanol, but it is not "the" answer for rural America or lessened the amounts of universal service funding needed to support high cost rural telecom infrastructure - | |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
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join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| Re: Ethanol=no energy dependence solution 1. You're talking about Corn CURRENTLY produced, ignoring the fact that CURRENTLY there isn't the market for the increase in volume. If the demand is there, production will be increased to meet it.
2. That assumes that ethanol would be substituted for fossil fuels in all circumstances. Also incorrect. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: I say Although they do a terrible job, HUD is focused on the poor. USF, by comparison, supports the rural rich as well as the rural poor. Consider Jackson Hole, etc.
Calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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