jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs: | reply to JonIrenicas
Re: Get Ready for............................
Do you know the meaning of trolling? Cause honestly I don't see it on Hogula's post. |
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JonIrenicas
join:2002-06-22
| said by jhboricua:
Do you know the meaning of trolling? Cause honestly I don't see it on Hogula's post.
I wasn't talking about the post he made here but all the posts he's made in the ATTBI forum saying the same thing. |
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Count Hogula$
Notorious Dog
Premium
join:2002-06-19
Corona, CA
| said by JonIrenicas:
said by jhboricua:
Do you know the meaning of trolling? Cause honestly I don't see it on Hogula's post.
I wasn't talking about the post he made here but all the posts he's made in the ATTBI forum saying the same thing.
How is it trolling to point out the truth? These are FACTS of ATTBi not conjecture. It's shows a pattern of customer abuse by ATTBi and the trend is getting worse.
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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -Thomas Jefferson |
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JonIrenicas
join:2002-06-22
| said by Count Hogula:
How is it trolling to point out the truth? These are FACTS of ATTBi not conjecture. It's shows a pattern of customer abuse by ATTBi and the trend is getting worse.
For one, offering 1.5 Mbps speeds for $8 cheaper then DSL it's best competitor for half the speed is not abuse.
And truth or not you've been constantly posting this to no end. Now opinions on what is and isn't trolling does vary but in my view it's trolling. One or two posts is sufficient, you don't need to spam the boards. |
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Count Hogula$
Notorious Dog
Premium
join:2002-06-19
Corona, CA
| It's not spamming to continue the point after it's brought up. And again...maybe you aren't getting it. It's not about xDSL versus cable...it's about ATTBi compared to their peers. The technologies have different cost factors...but cable is cable and ATTBi (as evidenced by their books) has shown a pattern of unjustified price increases as a consequence of their monopoly power. Their peers aren't taking 258% increases.
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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -Thomas Jefferson |
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JonIrenicas
join:2002-06-22
| said by Count Hogula:
It's not spamming to continue the point after it's brought up. And again...maybe you aren't getting it. It's not about xDSL versus cable...it's about ATTBi compared to their peers. The technologies have different cost factors...but cable is cable and ATTBi (as evidenced by their books) has shown a pattern of unjustified price increases as a consequence of their monopoly power. Their peers aren't taking 258% increases.
Maybe those companies would too if they were in debt and were upgrading neigborhoods all over the country. And ATTBI raised the prices by $6 after @home folded, I'm not very good at math but that's barely a 6% increase.
I know you're reffering to the ultra service that has the old bankrupt @home speeds for $80/month but if people really want those speeds enough they will pay more for it. No one is forcing anyone to order that service and 1.5 Mbps is already plenty of bandwidth.
[text was edited by author 2002-09-17 16:27:26] |
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Count Hogula$
Notorious Dog
Premium
join:2002-06-19
Corona, CA
| You're right. Your math isn't very good. When charging $30, $6 is a 20% increase ($6 being a 6% increase of something would have the original price at $100). Then they took another increase. And that's not all they did...they cut the speeds in half (while their peers like Cox didn't) then came back offering those original speeds for 258% higher. ATTBi isn't the only CATV operation expanding...but their books show that their expenses in the ATTB division haven't increased over the last year while they increased their per customer take from $36 to over $40. Now if they are adding all these customer as you claim...but aren't spending a dime more (as their financial report states)...what's happening? They're cutting services. They maintain the same amount of CS agents and tech people to support and ever increasing customer base. On hold times increase and service goes downhill.
As for your second comment...now we see your attitude. 1.5Mb may be plenty for you...how about 768? Would you be upset if they cut your speeds to 768? How about 512? Tell all of us here how much speed is "enough". ATTBi subscribers should be getting what they've originally payed for and these endless price hikes should result in some improvement of services. Cox and Dish Network seem to have learned the lesson.
And again...@Home failed because of their Excite purchase...not bandwidth. Your continuous assertion that it was bandwidth that ran @home into bankruptcy is false.
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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -Thomas Jefferson
[text was edited by author 2002-09-17 16:40:34] |
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JonIrenicas
join:2002-06-22
| "You're right. Your math isn't very good. When charging $30, $6 is a 20% increase ($6 being a 6% increase of something would have the original price at $100)."
They were charging $36. $36 + $6 = $42 = 6 or 7% increase.
"And that's not all they did...they cut the speeds in half (while their peers like Cox didn't)"
Cox doesn't have near as many neigborhoods to upgrade and maintane as ATTBI does. Even still Cox has already started price increases in select areas.
"but their books show that their expenses in the ATTB division haven't increased over the last year while they increased their per customer take from $36 to over $40."
That doesn't mean anything. The expenses they incured to warrant a price increase could have happened more then a year ago.
"1.5Mb may be plenty for you"
Who would it not be plenty for? Someone who is reselling the connection? Someone who downloads endless porn and warez everyday?
"how about 768? Would you be upset if they cut your speeds to 768?"
Absolutely. Although the difference between 3.0 and 1.5 is slight the difference between 750 and 1.5 would be huge. They won't lower it though, infact I feel they will increase it in the coming years once they start to balance out and get more organized aswell as possibly DSL being able to offer 2 Mbps+ speeds at low prices.
"Tell all of us here how much speed is "enough"."
1.5 Mbps is enough.
"ATTBi subscribers should be getting what they've originally payed for and these endless price hikes should result in some improvement of services."
What they originally payed for was their first month of service with @Home. What they payed for this month is 1.5 Mbps download speeds from AT&T Broadband.
"Cox and Dish Network seem to have learned the lesson."
Might wanna stop boasting Cox after the resent news that they've increased prices by $5 in several of their markets. |
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Count Hogula$
Notorious Dog
Premium
join:2002-06-19
Corona, CA
| "They were charging $36. $36 + $6 = $42 = 6 or 7% increase."
$6 is 16.67% of $36 guy. $36 + (16.67% of $36) = $42. You must subscribe to ATTBi's math practices.
"Cox doesn't have near as many neigborhoods to upgrade and maintane as ATTBI does. Even still Cox has already started price increases in select areas."
Really? Yeah...there is no development going on in Orange County, CA or any of their other markets. Nice fiction. Meanwhile your comments still don't address ATTBi not spending any more even though they have more customers to support. Per customer revenues have sky-rocketed...per customer spending has plummeted.
"That doesn't mean anything. The expenses they incurred to warrant a price increase could have happened more then a year ago."
Read their financials...they DIDN'T SPEND ANY MORE MONEY THAN LAST YEAR. And they already had an increase last year.
"Absolutely. Although the difference between 3.0 and 1.5 is slight the difference between 750 and 1.5 would be huge. They won't lower it though, infact I feel they will increase it in the coming years once they start to balance out and get more organized aswell as possibly DSL being able to offer 2 Mbps+ speeds at low prices."
Ummm, 50% is 50%. I suppose you are for DL caps too?
"1.5 Mbps is enough."
Really...nice to know that you speak for the U.S. internet subscriber base.
"Might wanna stop boasting Cox after the resent news that they've increased prices by $5 in several of their markets."
Meanwhile they're still cheaper than ATTBi and twice the speed...or is it less than 1/2 the cost for the same speed. I guess it's both. Welcome to ATTBi's new math.
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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -Thomas Jefferson
[text was edited by author 2002-09-17 17:19:56] |
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JonIrenicas
join:2002-06-22
| "Really? Yeah...there is no development going on in Orange County, CA or any of their other markets. Nice fiction."
I didn't say there isn't any development going on in Orange county. Nice fiction. I said they don't have nearly as many Neigborhoods to upgrade and mantain.
"Really...nice to know that you speak for the U.S. internet subscriber base."
I speak for myself.
"Meanwhile they're still cheaper than ATTBi and twice the speed...or is it less than 1/2 the cost for the same speed. I guess it's both. Welcome to ATTBi's new math."
As I said they can offer that because they don't have nearly as many neigborhoods to upgrade and mantain as ATTB does. Nore the backbone ATT has created. And even with having a cap twice as much as ATTBI does they only average about 200Kbps more then ATTBI in speed tests. Just because the cap is at 3 MBPS doesn't mean users are ever gonna get that speed. ATTB has done alot to create a very stable network, virtually all users see 1.4 MBps where the cap is set at while with Cox it fluctuates and many many people test bellow 1 Mbps, most people test between 2.0 Mbps and 100 Kbps.
I guess you have to ask yourself. Would you rather pay a little more every month and have very stable 1.4 Mbps speeds or pay a little less and have very eratic speeds. Or pay twice as much and have stable 3.0 Mbps speeds. I don't know about you or anyone else but I'd go for the stability every single time. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| reply to JonIrenicas
said by JonIrenicas:
Maybe those companies would too if they were in debt and were upgrading neigborhoods all over the country. And ATTBI raised the prices by $6 after @home folded
Keep in mind that when they bought TCI, they bought it high, and having no idea how to run a cable company, were unable to perform these upgrades in a profitable manner. I think ATTBI will be under much better management by Comcast, because cable is still their primary business.
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Proud to be an American infidel. |
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JonIrenicas
join:2002-06-22
| said by pnh102:
Keep in mind that when they bought TCI, they bought it high, and having no idea how to run a cable company, were unable to perform these upgrades in a profitable manner. I think ATTBI will be under much better management by Comcast, because cable is still their primary business.
Ya I remember when they started upgrading my area shortly after they took over for TCI in June of 2000, that was when the economy started to really slide and AT&T got deep into their financial trouble. They ended up not finishing the upgrades in my area until two years later this last June. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by JonIrenicas:
They ended up not finishing the upgrades in my area until two years later this last June.
Wow... I have a bad feeling that if AT&T continues to go into the shitter (as they are because of their sales losses in residential long distance), they will end up taking the broadband division with them. It definitely better to let ATTBI go now instead of letting it sink with the rest of the ship.
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Proud to be an American infidel. |
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Count Hogula$
Notorious Dog
Premium
join:2002-06-19
Corona, CA
| reply to JonIrenicas
said by JonIrenicas:
"Really? Yeah...there is no development going on in Orange County, CA or any of their other markets. Nice fiction."
I didn't say there isn't any development going on in Orange county. Nice fiction. I said they don't have nearly as many Neigborhoods to upgrade and mantain.
"Really...nice to know that you speak for the U.S. internet subscriber base."
I speak for myself.
"Meanwhile they're still cheaper than ATTBi and twice the speed...or is it less than 1/2 the cost for the same speed. I guess it's both. Welcome to ATTBi's new math."
As I said they can offer that because they don't have nearly as many neigborhoods to upgrade and mantain as ATTB does. Nore the backbone ATT has created. And even with having a cap twice as much as ATTBI does they only average about 200Kbps more then ATTBI in speed tests. Just because the cap is at 3 MBPS doesn't mean users are ever gonna get that speed. ATTB has done alot to create a very stable network, virtually all users see 1.4 MBps where the cap is set at while with Cox it fluctuates and many many people test bellow 1 Mbps, most people test between 2.0 Mbps and 100 Kbps.
I guess you have to ask yourself. Would you rather pay a little more every month and have very stable 1.4 Mbps speeds or pay a little less and have very eratic speeds. Or pay twice as much and have stable 3.0 Mbps speeds. I don't know about you or anyone else but I'd go for the stability every single time.
PER SUBSCRIBER REVENUE...increased from $36 to $40. More subscribers just means more revenue...EXCEPT they aren't spending any more money when they take on these new customers.
ATTBi also takes in more money. Your statement makes no sense. How does the number of customers matter when you have revenue from every customer. Double the customers, double the revenue.
They have the revenue to spend in division...but they aren't spending it. That's the ONLY reason your aren't getting it.
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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -Thomas Jefferson |
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JonIrenicas
join:2002-06-22
| "PER SUBSCRIBER REVENUE...increased from $36 to $40. More subscribers just means more revenue...EXCEPT they aren't spending any more money when they take on these new customers."
What's with this personal vandeta against ATTBI? They offer some of the cheapest prices in Broadband, Cable broadband even.
"ATTBi also takes in more money. Your statement makes no sense. How does the number of customers matter when you have revenue from every customer. Double the customers, double the revenue."
They have more area's to upgrade and maintain then any other cable provider. I don't care if that doesn't make any sense to you.
"They have the revenue to spend in division...but they aren't spending it. That's the ONLY reason your aren't getting it."
Maybe they do maybe they don't. I personally don't care.
BTW, you registered on June 19th and have made 1558 posts. I haven't met many non trolls who post at such a ridiculous rate. My question is don't you have anything better to do with your time then to endlessly bash a Broadband ISP's prices when they already offer very good and competetive prices?
[text was edited by author 2002-09-18 13:21:21] |
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Count Hogula$
Notorious Dog
Premium
join:2002-06-19
Corona, CA
| "What's with this personal vandeta against ATTBI? They offer some of the cheapest prices in Broadband, Cable broadband even."
What's with your shilling for ATTBi? They DON'T offer some of the cheapest rates (most of their peers are cheaper) AND they offer 33-66% less services.
"They have more area's to upgrade and maintain then any other cable provider. I don't care if that doesn't make any sense to you."
It seems to not make sense to you.
PER CUSTOMER REVENUE X NUMBER OF CUSTOMERS = TOTAL REVENUE
Maybe your math is still fuzzy so I will explain it again. More customers means more revenue to support those customers. EXCEPT, ATTB is in the practice of taking on more customers, charging them higher rates, while keeping total expenditures the same. I think your ignorance to this fact is intentional.
"Maybe they do maybe they don't. I personally don't care."
Of course you don't care that you're over paying for your service. Other's do.
"BTW, you registered on June 19th and have made 1558 posts. I haven't met many non trolls who post at such a ridiculous rate. My question is don't you have anything better to do with your time then to endlessly bash a Broadband ISP's prices when they already offer very good and competetive prices?"
Shilling for ATTBi is a better hobby you think? Figures some one who enjoys paying too much for service would also criticize active members of DSLR. ATTBi offers less than mediocre service for the prices they charge compared to their peers. You may be a philanthropist, but others aren't and question why ATTBi needs to continuously raise prices while offering less service when their peers seem to do just fine offering more for less.
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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -Thomas Jefferson
[text was edited by author 2002-09-18 14:12:25] |
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JonIrenicas
join:2002-06-22
| "They DON'T offer some of the cheapest rates (most of their peers are cheaper) AND they offer 33-66% less services."
They blow DSL away in speeds and price. Cox is cheaper in many of it's markets while in others it's more expensive then ATTBI. Roadrunner is about the same price. Really, ATTBI offers very good and competitive prices. Also as I stated earlier just because the caps are higher then ATTBI doesn't mean users will ever see those speeds. Cox's systems are very unstable and even though the cap is at 3 Mbps most users see between 100Kbps and 2 Mbps. ATTB's systems are very stable and virtually all users test at the 1.4 Mbps the cap is set at while if you want 3 Mbps and are whilling to pay for it you will almost always get the 3 Mbps when with Cox it could be 100 KBps or 2 Mbps and on rare occasions 3 Mbps it all depends. Again, just because the caps are higher doesn't mean users get those speeds because they usually don't get anywhere near.
"It seems to not make sense to you.
PER CUSTOMER REVENUE X NUMBER OF CUSTOMERS = TOTAL REVENUE
Maybe your math is still fuzzy so I will explain it again. More customers means more revenue to support those customers. EXCEPT, ATTB is in the practice of taking on more customers, charging them higher rates, while keeping total expenditures the same. I think your ignorance to this fact is intentional."
Upgrading areas in not cheap and while it may pay for itself in the long run in the short term it is very costly. You can throw this revenue crap at me all you want. I don't care, ATTB is in debt and they have every right to get out of it. Business must be proffitable.
"Of course you don't care that you're over paying for your service. Other's do."
$42 is not overpaying, it's very reasonable and competitive. I'd be very lucky to get this price for these speeds anywhere else. The end. |
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Count Hogula$
Notorious Dog
Premium
join:2002-06-19
Corona, CA
| Every cable operator does new installs and a lot of the "new infrastructure" is actually paid by the builder. You think they'll trench the 'hood for free. Think again.
As for Cox speeds, I get consistent 3Mb speeds from Cox OC. (See speed tests for ZIP 92883). My friends with TW in OC get consistant 2Mb speeds from their RR connections. Sure everyone has their problems...but even with problems Cox and TW are faster than ATTBi on a good day.
$42 is not reasonable and is overpriced when compared to ATTBi cable peers.
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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -Thomas Jefferson |
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JonIrenicas
join:2002-06-22
| said by Count Hogula:
$42 is not reasonable and is overpriced when compared to ATTBi cable peers.
Pretty funny statement when you take in account that most cable broadband providers charge more then that. Yes even Cox (though not in all markets) and Roadrunner.
Also, you claim to have Cox yet it clearly shows in this thread »How close is close that you don't have a Cable connection and you're waiting for ATTBI to "roll out' in your area. And your profile clearly says your claimed ISP is Unplugged/Coastinet, NOT Cox plus you've made two reviews »/allrevi···p=,92883 two reviews that aren't reviewing Cox.
Clearly you don't have Cox cable so this statement "As for Cox speeds, I get consistent 3Mb speeds from Cox OC" is a lie. You don't get those speeds because you don't got Cox cable. If you can't get this right why should anything you say be taken seriously? We might aswell assume everything you type is a lie. And you sure do bash ATTB alot for someone who is eagerly awaiting their services. Clearly you are a troll and anyone that thinks you aren't is lying to themselves.
[text was edited by author 2002-09-19 00:23:26] |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to Count Hogula$
said by Count Hogula:
Every cable operator does new installs and a lot of the "new infrastructure" is actually paid by the builder. You think they'll trench the 'hood for free. Think again.
Actually Comcast did all of its upgrades in our area without a (recent) fee hike. The only thing they charge you for if you get broadband is if you have a "professional installation." I believe that is $50 if you do that.
What amazes me the most is that ATTBI and Comcast are both able to charge the exact same amount for broadband in most of their markets, even though some customers cost a lot more to hook up than others. I'm sure if I had to pay the "full cost" of my connection, it'd be a helluva lot more than I am currently paying!
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Proud to be an American infidel. |
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