O Canada! > Canadian > Canadian Broadband > FTTN Profiles - CRTC complaint

FTTN Profiles - CRTC complaint

Did you request to get raised to the proper profile, and if so, was the refusal because of line conditions, or because Bell claimed this was the proper profile?
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Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

reply to Guspaz

reply to dillyhammer
This is a new alarming trend. You will notice that virtually everybody who upgraded to "FTTN" after the 703 and posted here has been given a lower profile than they were supposed to on both Upstream and Downstream. Conversely those who switched during the interim tariffs (such as myself) got the proper profile.

And as for "line conditioning"? More like Bell Wallet Conditioning.

reply to dillyhammer

I suspect that the ISP That shall not be named is having bigger problems then trying to do FTTN March Deals.

Marc posted this in the Teksavvy forum

quote:

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There have been so many rate changes that it's difficult for anybody to keep track. We are now bombarded with all sorts of fees from the incumbents that never existed before and perception wise it's a killer when all these other changes are happening at the same time and we are all still faced with the fact that there is inherent uncertainty in our pricing since we don't know what costs we'll be faced with once people migrate to higher speeds. Setting proper rates all in one shot like the CRTC mandated effectively created a massive mess. We'll get through it all and in time it will all be sorted out. In the mean time we'll do the best we can.

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Can you prove that all Bell customers who order 16mbps service are given a 19mbps profile ?

Or are those isolated "errors" because of some nice Bell employee ?

To be sure, one would have to take a Bell customer at 10/12, have him upgrade to the advertised 16mbps service, record his profile, and then migrate to a 3rd prty ISP at 16mbps to see if bell then lowers the profile.

Or get a person to subscribe to Bell and a 3rd party ISP *2 spearate lines) in the same location and see if the profiles are different.

At the end of the day, the CRTC has calaculated costs based on a 16mbps throughput so I am not sure they would really push for people to get 19mbps when they only pay for 16mbps.

On the other hand, if Bell systematicaly cheats and lest its customers use more than what they pay for, then the proportion of costs that ISPs pay should be lower since Bell's own customer take a bigger share of the infrastructure pie.

Also remember that Bell gives its customers the option to subscribe to FibTV where the first channel doesn't eat up on the promised internet bandwidth. So they give customers a free 3mbps for that.

19 Mbps profile isn't an error I have seen this too.

You need 19 Mbps to get 16 Mbps real world speed on speedtest

With a 16 Mbps profile it is actually slower than Videotron's 15 Mbps cable.

reply to jfmezei
JF, it's not a mistake on hell's part nor a "nice" tech.

Check the premise. The whole point of the FTTN, besides Bell's Wallet Conditioning, as Bell sold it to the CRTC, is that it is supposed to be this "NEW" network completely redesigned and improved on the "OLD" DSL, hence it achieves the advertised throughput.

Case in point: you will notice that all the post-703 upstream profiles are set to 800 kbps, not 1 mbps as advertised. And I am not talking about buggy IKNS remotes either. They can't do anything about those, so not necessarily their fault (other than installing them in the first place).

When I upgraded to 10 mbit pre-703 through TSI, I got the same profile Bhell customers get: 12787 download and... 824 upload, but this was because of IKNS. If I had been on Globespan or Alcatel, this would have been 1085.

Also, all the users in the TSI forum who switched to Bell-Wallet-Conditioning profiles during the interim tariffs got their full profiles that compensate for overhead, so clearly this was Bell's Post-703 decision to give lower profiles to wholesale.

OK so those are ADSL2+ profiles then ?

The thing is that for Bell, ADSL2 isn't "FTTN". It is legacy stuff that has been available for ages.

VDSL2 is the real FTTN.

And you are right though, if on ADSL2, you still get the ancient ATM overhead on the photonic copper. One would have to calaculate what speed is necessary with ATM overhead to attan 16mbps.

Note that the approved tariffs all include "up to" on those speeds.

reply to dillyhammer

Those are ADSL2+ profiles, and they still consider them FTTN since they are sold under the FIB brand through bell retail, and the carry the higher access and startup charges as well.

Essentially as stated by kovy, they can't screw you over on VDSL profiles for the simple reasont that only 1 profile exists in lantern. So they have no choice but to set it for everybody. ADSL/ADSL2+ comes with a plethora of options, so they play around...

reply to jfmezei
My tenant, when she was here, ordered 12/1 directly from Bell.

She was put on a 14272/1088 profile by default. I was quite shocked when I saw this.

When I ordered 12/1, I was put on a 12272/797 profile by default. I made some noise, and got a 14/1 profile which was classified by TSI as a "mistake".

Now that I'm on the 16/1 service I got put on a 16317/797 profile by default. I can order a 16/1 connection directly from Bell on a dry loop, the pair for which is already running into my NID, and see what happens.

But we both know what's going to happen JF. They'll put that connection on a 19/1 profile to get full speeds.

I think it's going to be a simple thing to prove.

The "up to" jargon that has been used in the past was to give them some buffer on line conditions. The "line conditioning" that forms a part of their current R&V on costs was supposed to alleviate some of that, was it not? My line stats certainly support that. And my line stats certainly support the 19/1.

These aren't mistakes JF.

A reasonable man should have no problem putting 2 and 2 together here.

Also, a full-blown complaint to the CRTC on this does not need to become epic. All it needs to do is draw attention to this issue, to both the CRTC and to B#ell - the purpose of which is to see customers ordering services get fair and equal treatment.

That was the purpose of the matching speeds order, and that's not what's happening.

Mike
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Cogeco - The New UBB Devil -»[Burloak] Usage Based Billing Nightmare
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reply to dillyhammer
Yeah, TSI is playing it overly-safe here by refusing to consider those mistakes as such and telling customers to accept lower profiles.

On the other hand this also means less capacity charges for them, so they see this as something good.

Before switching to Ebox, I could download at a steady 1.28 megabyte/sec through my 10 Mbit ADSL connection. If they set up the profile to 10k as they are doing now, I would have achieved 1000 kbyte/sec approx which matches the videotron/ebox cable 8 MB profile.

If a challenge is to be made, we must first get sufficient amount of real evidence.

Ideally, you want to have so much evidence that Bell's lawyers will thrown in the towel and just plead "no contest" and give GAS the same speeds.

And we must then look at the proper timing for this. With R&Vs flying around 703 like pigeons fly around a loaf of bread in a downtown park, is now the right time, or should we wait for the dust to settle ?

I keep hearing this line, "only one 25/7 VDSL profile exists".

Maybe I don't understand exactly what "profile" means in this instance. But wouldn't that mean that everyone would be set to the exact same maximum download/upload rates as everyone else, regardless of what their line could obtain? Of course, a line can only do what it can sync up to, but would they then still have control over a customer's actual data rates?

Or is there just one master 50/8 profile (or whatever) and then they just throttle down after that?

reply to dillyhammer
Bell has much more accurate tracking for VDSL2 qualification, so basically they've significantly reduced the edge cases. Either you can get 25/7, and the line is good enough, or you can't, and they won't sell it to you. Those edge cases do still happen (and there are different profiles with different amounts of upstream, for example, or the one they use for "16+", which is faster than 25/7 IIRC) but they're enormously reduced.

Then again, on top of the 25ish VDSL2 profiles, there are also 10/7, 12/7, and 16/7 VDSL2 profiles.
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Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

reply to dillyhammer

reply to Sunfox