 JCohenPremium
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON
kudos:3
 ·Start Communicat..
 ·TekSavvy Cable
 ·Bell Fibe
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to hazelsmrf
Re: Velcom, Acanac, price change, when ? said by hazelsmrf :Ok maybe I'm being stupid and not understanding a thing:
Say Bell has the ability to offer speeds at 25Mbps with 7Mbps upload. They also sell a 16Mbps/1Mbps version, and a 10Mbps etc version. Isn't the 16Mbps version just a throttled 25Mbps connection? Isn't any slow connection a throttled version of their faster ones? If so, then I am not complaining that I only get 16Mbps because that is what I'm PAYING for. If I wanted to get 25Mbps, I would pay for that.
It's not at all a throttled connection, it is a physical limit that is set by the ISP for your DSL port or cable modem. |
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| said by JCohen:It's not at all a throttled connection, it is a physical limit that is set by the ISP for your DSL port or cable modem. On a line that can support higher speed than your current sync speed, the lower sync speed has the same effect as a rate limit on a higher speed sync... a 25/7 sync rate-limited to 16/1 is going to behave the same way as a line set to 16/1 for most intents and purposes.
On cable, speed profiles are rate limits by definition: the 4-QAM runs at ~154Mbps payload rate regardless of what subscribers are doing on it but your modem is rate-limited by its profile to a fraction of the transport capacity it has access to based on which profile you paid for. |
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| Ok so... if speed profiles are set based on the profile you pay for, why is it OK to pay for a 15Mbps line or a 30Mbps line, but not ok to pay for a line that's 30Mbps between certain hours and 15Mbps between other hours? Why is one seen as normal, and only the other one considered throttling? |
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| said by Hazelsmrf :Why is one seen as normal, and only the other one considered throttling? That would be semantics, which is very much like religion: one of those things it is nearly impossible for everyone to agree on. |
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JCohenPremium
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON
kudos:3 Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·TekSavvy Cable
·Bell Fibe
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to Hazelsmrf
said by Hazelsmrf :Ok so... if speed profiles are set based on the profile you pay for, why is it OK to pay for a 15Mbps line or a 30Mbps line, but not ok to pay for a line that's 30Mbps between certain hours and 15Mbps between other hours? Why is one seen as normal, and only the other one considered throttling?
Look at it this way instead, you're paying for a line that 15Mbps and during off peak you will be able to use up to 30Mbps. Removes the word "throttling" and gives customers the impression that they're getting a bonus. |
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Reviews:
·gemstelecom
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to Hazelsmrf
said by Hazelsmrf :Ok so... if speed profiles are set based on the profile you pay for, why is it OK to pay for a 15Mbps line or a 30Mbps line, but not ok to pay for a line that's 30Mbps between certain hours and 15Mbps between other hours? Why is one seen as normal, and only the other one considered throttling?
to simplify too much, I would say its because throttling is the choking of your connection lower than its speed sync. Although no details were released, I think we all assume Acanac will be throttling the connections without changing the speed profile itself.
It is not that one is normal and the other is not. It is that one is called setting the speed profile, and the other throttling.
And I totally agree that for the user, the result is pretty much the same. |
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| Ah ok, understood.
Anyways I don't get why people are so worked up over this, it's good to have options. I am currently paying a lot of money in overages on the Bell 16Mbps line, so I would go with Acanac and a 30Mbps unlimited line, pay half the price I'm currently paying, and get about the speed that I currently get *or more*. The more is just a bonus to me. |
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| Yea i feel like the negative connotations are coming from Acanac using the wrong words: throttling instead of using speed limit or something. Throttling is shapeing of traffic which means the ISP plays with your connection and f*cks some of the things you do with it. The limit will not f*ck with anything you do it will only limit total speed for a limited time. Also bell used throttling without our consent whereas acanac is making it very clear what you are signing up for. Personally to save 10-15$/month i will accept reduced speeds for 5 hrs out of 24.
I like this initiative. Now cant wait for the damned prices! |
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Reviews:
·Acanac
| reply to Hazelsmrf
said by Hazelsmrf :Ah ok, understood.
Anyways I don't get why people are so worked up over this, it's good to have options. I am currently paying a lot of money in overages on the Bell 16Mbps line, so I would go with Acanac and a 30Mbps unlimited line, pay half the price I'm currently paying, and get about the speed that I currently get *or more*. The more is just a bonus to me.
the problem that you "dont get" is the people on 5-6meg dsl that are on it because its the fastest thing they can get.
they will all surely leave acanac when they find out they are now getting rate limited half the time. |
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Jurjen
join:2010-08-18
Montreal, QC Reviews:
·Acanac
·Bell Fibe
| said by the cerberus:the problem that you "dont get" is the people on 5-6meg dsl that are on it because its the fastest thing they can get.
they will all surely leave acanac when they find out they are now getting rate limited half the time.
Actually I'm curious how it work out. If you can only get 3Mbps, since you're on a bad/long line, will your speed just be lowered 50%, or will it remain at the same 3Mbps that Acanac sets as the max speed during peak hours?
In other words: is it a solid limit, or is it proportional? |
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| the cerberus, I still don't really understand all the complaining. Acanac are offering a service, you are free to not take it and go with one that offers an unthrottled 6Mbps line, or are you forced to only use Acanac for some reason? I think the choice is good, I'd much rather have choices and different plans that meet different needs everywhere than have EVERYONE offer the exact same cookie cutter plans that don't necessarily fit your needs. At least at 6Mbps you have several choices out there. |
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| reply to Jurjen
I wonder the same. And also, does the throttling affect the upload speed ? I want to keep my faster upload while my download speed is throttled/rate limited/whatever you call it. |
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Reviews:
·Acanac
| reply to Jurjen
rate limiting sounds like it would be half of the max speed, so 3mbps would always be 3 if they are paying for 6...
but those werent the people i was talking about, anyone syncing over 3mbps on 6mbps is going to be upset, people sign up for it because its the fastest in the area, and because 3rd parties tend to be good about getting you on the fastest profile you can handle.
i have a friend on bell who is on a 3meg profile for no apparent reason. from his line stats, he should be getting the full 6, but since his family knows nothing about line stats and technical details of dsl hes left on the 3meg profile paying for 6.
this is the type of thing bell does to save money on uneducated customers. not something a wholesaler, who fights for the consumer, should be doing  |
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Jurjen
join:2010-08-18
Montreal, QC | reply to pducharme
As stated before in this topic: the upload speed will not be affected, only download. |
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| thank you, i didn't want to read all the 19 pages of posts  |
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| reply to pducharme
Upload is not throttled at all time, according to Paul. |
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Reviews:
·Acanac
| reply to Hazelsmrf
said by Hazelsmrf :the cerberus, I still don't really understand all the complaining. Acanac are offering a service, you are free to not take it and go with one that offers an unthrottled 6Mbps line, or are you forced to only use Acanac for some reason? I think the choice is good, I'd much rather have choices and different plans that meet different needs everywhere than have EVERYONE offer the exact same cookie cutter plans that don't necessarily fit your needs. At least at 6Mbps you have several choices out there.
no offence but i dont think anyone would sign up for acanacs 6mbps service knowing its going to be rate limited.
people who sign up for 6meg tend to be people who are limited to 6 megs in their area, they tend to push for the highest sync rate their line can handle when they get the service too.
50 mbps down to 25mbps is something i can entirely understand and would probably sign up for in a heartbeat.
but 6mbps is low to begin with, and cutting it down to 3 is something bell does to try to trick uneducated customers into saving bell money/congestion.
6mbps is also useful for streaming in hd and 3mbps makes that impossible.
6mbps can be shared by 4 people without much problems.
3mbps everyone in the house tends to be complaining about how slow it is |
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Jurjen
join:2010-08-18
Montreal, QC Reviews:
·Acanac
·Bell Fibe
| reply to the cerberus
The thing is: the 6 Mbps is determined by the sync. Then you get overhead, noise on the line, etc. what will determine the actual speed. However, the "rate limit" is just an artificial bottleneck on Acanac's side.
See it this way: The highway is designed for 6 lanes, however on the outer lanes the tarmac isn't in a good state, so you can't use it there all the way. Effectively, the amount of usable lanes is closer to five for most people. In some extreme cases a highway is so bad that only 3 lanes can be used. However, during the rush hour, people are told to only use 3 lanes max. If you're used to having 5 good lanes, you'll notice the difference; if 3 of the lanes were already unusable, it makes no difference at all.
That'd be the case for a solid limit.
However, if we're going proportional, we're just closing half of the lanes that are in a good condition and we ignore the bad lanes as if they don't even exist. Bringing it back to Acanac's situation: how would the rate limiter know how much noise there is on the last mile to adjust your speed?
That's why I'm guessing for a solid limit, rather then a proportional limit.
I'm curious on Paul's answer, or anybody with more fun analogies! |
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| It's not based on the last mile. It's based on the AGAS line peak usage.
So if we start approaching 1Gbps we reduce each DSL line by 1Mbps for example. An hour later it starts once again approaching 1Gbps we reduce the speeds by another 1Mbps. If you are already at 3Mbps because of the sync rate nothing will change for you. We will not rate limit lines below 3Mbps on the 6Mbps plans. |
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| Once the Price get out for Cable QC, when can we order ? Also, on your site, it says I don't have cable in my Area, but I was previously on Vidéotron, does that mean I CAN subscribe and it's only your site that was not good ? |
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