Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25
1 edit | Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1
Here is a little something i thought i would post about my theory's on maximizing dps for some rogues that feel that they are a little low. Most of this has been read on other sites but its still good to see all the answers in one place. If your dps is doing fine then this is not for you, most of this is common knowledge.
--Choosing weapons and poisons--
Assassination Spec 3.1
For Assas spec you want to have instant on your MH weapon and Deadly on your OH. With the changes to PPM (Procs per minute) you will now want a slow dagger in your MH slot for max mutilate damage. For your OH its debatable right now. If you have Sinister Revenge x2 then you can use both of them. If you have Sinister revenge and webbed death or any other dagger faster than 1.5 speed then you want to use your best dagger. The reason it is sinister revenge is equal to webbed death for OH mutilate at he moment is because of the overall mutilate damage VS focused attacks procs. Stacking deadly poison doesn't seem like an issue with Master poisoner.
Combat spec/Hat
For combat spec you want wound poison on your slow MH weapon. The same as before and same as always you want the slowest MH weapon possible. For you OH weapon you want something fast. Webbed death is optimal for someone heading into Ulduar. The OH poison should be deadly for the savage combat debuff. For combat spec your going to want fist in your MH though. Fist weapons have proven slightly better than swords or maces for combat. Maybe Ulduar will release a badass MH sword and change this though. For HaT setup it is the same except a fast OH weapon is not really required. dont want to go SLOW/SLOW but 1.8 speed is allowed because you aren't worrying about and energy regen from OH weapon procs. Fist weapons are paramount for HaT though.
--Armor Choices for entering Ulduar--
If you've been through Naxx more than a few times like the majority of players have, then you are most likely reaching a lot of BiS (best in slot) armor. The same as 3.09 your going to want to be expertise capped (26/26) on your statistic screen OR 114 with 2/2 expertise in the combat tree and 214 without weapon expertise. After expertise you want to still keep the same hit caps. As combat you should aim for 314-315 hit rating and as mutilate around 237. After you've reached the proper caps then stack attack power. Attack power is more important than Agility still even more because deadly poison now receives a 12% buff from your AP. This is why berserking>mongoose always also. Trinket choices are as follows. For combat with all other BiS 3.09 items Darkmoon Card greatness and Grim Toll are your best options. Grim toll soley because it keeps you at the hit cap. If you are missing some BiS items and still have a few pieces with hit rating on them then Fury of the Five flights is BiS for you. For mutilate its Fury and Greatness. Hat it is Fury and greatness also. I cannot stress how important it is to hold on to your 4 set bonus as long as possible. The bonus is so great is out weighs breaking it with any Ulduar tier pieces until you have a 2-set bonus. Even then it is arguably better to hold onto your 4 set until you have more and more Ulduar gear.
--Rotations--
Assassination or mutilate 3.1
Your going to want to start off with garotte if you can. Opening from stealth is important because of overkill. Immediately after garrote set up Hunger for blood and then Slice in Dice with your single combo point. After setting SnD precede to Mutilate to 4-5 combo points and set up rupture and then mutilate again to 5 combo points and evenom your SnD to full. Envenom when ever your HFB is over 4 seconds and your rupture has enough time left. Rotation prioritys are Hunger, SnD, and then Rupture. Even though your hunger is 1 min it is paramount to keep it up at all times. The damage increase is just too much. Also for heading from trash pull to trash you can refresh hunger at the last minute to keep it flowing in between pulls.
Combat 3.1
For combat spec your going to want to open as fast as possible. Garrote is nice but if it is slowing you down opening from stealth isnt nearly as important for combat spec. Once you charge in immediately sinister strike and with 2 combo points setup SnD and then Sinister strike to 5 points and setup rupture. After this just continue to keep up rupture and slice n dice. SnD has priority and Eviscerate when you can. For multiple mobs you want to time Killing spree with Blade Flurry. Make sure that you trick of the trade before letting off Killing spree or Blade Flurry. Save Adrenaline rush for those cluth moments when you need the most out of your DPS.
Honor Amongst Thieves (HaT) 3.1
This rotation is really different from the other two because there isn't really a set in stone setup. Open with premed and start of with one hemo and then setup SnD. After SnD i rolling Hemo and get 5 combo points and set rupture. Weave rupture and SnD in with evis spamming if you are feeling combo point starved feel free to hemo. You want to get the most out of the combo points so always drop 5 point eviscerates if you have the chance. Priority is Slice in dice and then rupture. Vanishing during combat not only resets your aggro but it gives you the damage buff for 6 seconds and allows you to throw on a garrote. I recommend this.
For all rogue dps on sustained fights tricks of the trade is your best friend. If there is more and one rogue in the group i recommend setting up a ToTT rotation and have other rogues use the buff on your ever time its up and you in turn use it on another rogue. If threat becomes an issue though just keep it on the tank. Living is always first priority.
--Glyphs Specs Etc.--
Assassination spec 3.1
This spec has stayed pretty much the same. The only change is using Master Poisoner over Turn the tables. For glyphs your going to want Hunger for Blood, Mutilate, and Rupture.
»talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=0···ion=9767
Combat spec 3.1
Huge improvements came for combat spec in 3.1. Hybrid Fist/Sword, Mace/Sword specs are no longer viable. You want two of the same weapons in hand. The spec has gotten a lot tighter with the added haste to Elusiveness. You HAVE to get the three points in elusiveness and this leaves only one extra combo point to play around with. I recommend getting either Throwing spec or Endurance. Either choice is your preference and it doesn't affect your overall dps. Also for now the best dps spec is dropping three points in Ruthlessness and putting those into imp poisons because of the high proc chance of wound from your slow MH weapon and the damage from DP being increased. For Glyphs your going to want, Sinister Strike, Killing Spree, and Rupture or SnD if your newer to the rotation its your choice.
18/51/2
»talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=0···ion=9767
HaT 3.1
Hat spec has stayed exactly the same from 3.09 and it is still the best single target rogue dps. Although it depends heavy on group make-up this is a good off spec for any rogue with a slow MH fist weapon. HaT spec is going to want to glyph Eviscerate, Rupture, and Slice and Dice.
»www.wowhead.com/?talent#fhfZ0gc0···VzAc:kuf
Trash DPS for those who care
As far as maximizing you overall damage your gonna want the slowest weapons possible in both hands for fan of knives damage, tricks of the trade is paramount. I recommend getting the macro for ToTT on your Target, Focus, or Target of target in case you forget to focus the main tank before trash it will save your life. For daggers Sinister Revenge x2 and for those without daggers you want slow fist weapons in both hands. There is an easy weapon switch macro that allows you to put on two slow weapons for trash pulls. Remember though, switching weapons resets your global cool down so i do not recommend doing it in the middle of constant damage. If there is a boss that has downtime to run to another set of adds though, by all means switch weapons but remember to switch back afterwards. Instant poison for mutilate or Wound poison for combat should be applied to both hands if you are using a second set of weapons. Combat spec can maximize damage with killing spree and blade flurry. If you want to MAX dps on trash then use your second spec with glyph of fan of knives and for mutilate blow cold blooded at the point when there are the maximum amount of mobs on screen. The importance of trash dps is debatable but for some raid groups it is very important and in Ulduar i recommend bringing your "A" game for all encounters, boss and mob alike.
ToTT Macro for your focus target
/cast [target=focus,help] Tricks of the Trade
Weapon switch macro
/equipslot 17 [Insert weapon name here]
Reverse this to your usual weapon and make another button to switch back
Final Thoughts, last tips, etc..
Using potions of speed and flask is highly recommended. Timing potions is very important. Save if for when you need to really do the most DPS. For bosses with damage modifiers (Malygos). Save it for the time when you are going to do the most damage. For food you can short yourself a few points on a stat and then make it up with a food buff. Although i recommend getting all caps through gear in case you die and have to be battle rezzed, its still an option though. I cannot stress the importance of Tricks of the trade. In my opinion its the best level 80 ability added to rogues in WotLK. Saving ToTT for when your about to do the most damage on un-aggroed mobs will keep you alive and in turn give you the most out of your dps. Cloak of the shadows through shit on the ground and vanish if you pull threat. If vanish is down then evasion tank if you have to. Never and i mean NEVER depend on evasion though. Ive been caught with my pants down more and enough times to know that evasion is busted when it comes to bosses and high level mobs. A boss will tear off your arms and beat you to death with them in front of your closest friends and family. So far all three specs offer different situational things for DPS. HaT for single target dps, combat for dynamic motion and fights that have multiple mobs at one time, and assassination for high single target dps and insane trash dps. In the end choose what ever spec you like to play. Rogues are one of the few classes that have been blessed with three very viable PvE specs. Whether your wielding daggers, fist, or even swords, GO OUT THERE AND TOP SOME METERS!
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»www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/8/8/ |
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Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25
| Maximizing Rogue DPS 3.1 pt 2
Razorscale & Constructor
With the added dual spec feature and rogue having the three possible raid specs its important to know what spec to choose for certain fights to do maximum dps. Although i recommend using Combat and Mutilate, HaT performs well for certain fights.
--Razorscale 25--
12.6 million health
Spec Advantage
Combat > HaT = Mutilate
A. Three phase fight
1. Phase one waves of trash
2. Phase 2 is temporary ground phase
3. Phase 3 is the OMGWTFGOGOGOALLOUT!!!
B. As a rogue abilities to watch out for
1. Whirlwind from the adds
2. Blue fire on the ground
3. Wing buffet and of course stay away from the front
of razorscale
A couple nights ago my guild did razorscale and although I had to log for work before the downing, i did get in a few good attempts and picked up this fight. Here are some basic tips that I can pass on from a rogues perspective.
For the first part in the first few attempts I threw tricks of the trade on the tank on our side and went to town on the adds. Turns out that the Darkrune Senitals have a whirlwind that hits HARD. Needless to say i was two shotted by the whirlwind and after that i learned to stay back. Second attempt I treated the packs of mobs similar to the ones in the Deathknight wing of Naxx. Evasion did work against the whirl wind and i found that the Dark Rune Watchers did not whirl wind so i picked them off of the off tank one by one. Its important to kick the chain lightning that they cast. Blade flurry was helpful along with tricks of the trade for pumping out some extra numbers. Cloak of shadows was also put to good use to avoid the blue fires that were on the ground. its important to remember to just pace your dps here. This is more about surviving. Staying alive is top priority.
After phase one was over Razorscale drops to the ground and you have some time to lay into him. Immediately when he hits the ground blow your cooldowns and go to work. Make sure and stay behind him cause of the flame breath. Go all out here. After some time on the ground he will fly back up. When hes in the air its the same as before. Avoid the whirlwind adds and stick to interrupting the Watchers.
After razorscale reaches 50% he will drop to the ground for good. This is where rogues really shine. Its good ol' fashion tank and spank here. If your raid blew heroism early then blow your Haste potion here. Some of your cooldowns should be back around by this time. If you have any ability to do more damage this is when you use it. Save sprint for the wing buffet to get back into DPS as fast as possible. Stick to your rotations and you should come out successful.
--Tips--
Although all three specs have potential to do well on this fight, to me Razorscale just screams Combat spec. It has so many elements that benefit combat spec. Killing spree + Blade Flurry on the trash, Adrenaline Rush on the ground phases. The breaks in sustained dps give enough time for your cooldowns to come around more than once so you can go ALL OUT when it counts most. Stick to your rotation and theres no reason that you wont come out on top.
--XT-002 Deconstructor 25--
25 million health o.0
To me this fight seems like a mix between Void Reaver and High Astromancer. This is THE ROGUE FIGHT. I say again if you are a rogue and you arent in at least the top 3 damage at the end of this fight, then you need to read back to page 1 of the guide.
Spec Advantage
HaT > Mutilate = Combat
A. Two phase fight
1. Phase one is just tank and spank the boss, watch
threat and trade tricks with another rogue if you can
2. Phase two is also tank in spank but you will target
the bosses Heart as he squats down. Pop cooldowns or
speed potions here.
B. As a rogue abilities to watch out for
1. Gravity Bomb - This is the part thats is like
Astromancer, RUN OUT! Stop what your doing and book
it to a safe area then drop the bomb and go back in.
2. Light Bomb - When this is cast on you RUN! Get as far
away as you can and then resume dps with the debuff
drops away.
This is the big tank and spank fight of ulduar with a twist. Phase one is simple, your tank will tank him at the bottom of the stairs. Open up and save your cooldowns for phase 2. Every once in awhile he will do a ground pound that does AoE damage. Stay in and the healers will take care of you for this. Every 25% of health the boss will enter phase 2.
During phase 2 he will expose his heart. DPS should go all out during this part unless the raid leader doesnt want to engage hardmode and tells you to slow down dps. Otherwise, blow cooldowns and go to work on the heart.
--Tips--
You can use Cloak of shadows on the two debuffs. When cloak of shadows is on cooldown then your going to want to use sprint to get aways as fast as possible. Make sure not to go out of range of your healers. I think HaT spec is the highest dps on this fight. Although a good HaT rogue can throw up some massive numbers, both of the other specs can do just fine. As a rogue there is no reason that you wont be top 3 DPS here with any spec.
Stay tuned for more guides and ill try to get some video if i get the chance to stick around for the downing of a boss for once.
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»www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/8/8/ |
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Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25
2 edits | --Flame Leviathan 25--
70 million health! @.@
This is the first fight in Ulduar and this boss has to be completed in order to gain access to any of the other bosses. Make sure and throw on your highest level items if you are a vehicle driver. Dont worry about how good the gear is. A few rogues in our guild have some epic cloth peices just for this fight. If you are going to be launched on top of the Leviathan then still keep your normal raid gear on. As a rogue you will most likely driving a chopper, if not then you will be one of the players launched onto the back of the Flame Leviathan to DPS down the Turrets.
Spec Advantages
Spec deep into imp vehicles
A. One phase fight
1. If your are in a vehicle you will most likely be inside of a Salvaged Chopper. Watch your HP drop oil
2. Most likely the rogues will be one of the players launched onto Flame Leviathan.
B. As a rogue abilities to watch out for
1. As a chopper you want to stay out of the flame vents that light the oil.
2. Save your Speed boost for after you drop Tar between Leviathan and one of the tanks.
This is the easiest fight in Ulduar. Once the fight begins you will either be driving a vehicle or a passenger in a vehicle waiting to be launched onto Flame Leviathan. Once you launch you will have to DPS down a Turret and then press the button to stall the Flame Leviathan. Make sure and wait till hes on a patch of Oil/Fire to increase the damage done to him.
--Tips--
When you come off of the flame leviathan make sure to hit the ground moving. You want to get as far away from the action as possible. When your riding shotgun in a Salvaged Demolisher make sure to use your abilities to the fullest. Above all, for a vehicle fight, this is one of the funnest fights there is. There is no pressure, any decent group can down this boss so just turn off your meters and have a good time.
--Emalon the Storm Watcher 25--
11.2 Million hp
This is the new boss in the Vault. The original boss in vault, Archavon, was a huge push over. This boss though is turning out to be a little more difficult. You might want to bring the guild on this one because the average pug is gonna fail. For a rogue though this fight is very simple. With some well timed Cloak Of shadows and proper usage of cooldowns you will come out on top.
Spec Advantage
Combat>Mutilate>HaT
A. One phase fight
1. 1 boss 4 adds, this fight sort of reminds me of grand widow in the sense that is all about timing.
B. As a rogue abilities to watch out for
1. Chain lightning, the only way to avoid this is to stay farther away from other melee dps.
2. Lightning nova - This about a 5 second cast and does damage depending on the range away from the boss.
This fight takes a simple concept and adds a pretty shard DPS timer on it. When you start this pull off the tanks will seperate the adds from emalon. Wherever you are DPSing Emalon you need to turn your camera toward the adds and just click both mouse buttons so that you can get a jump on everyone when the adds are about to enrage. By all means do as much damage possible on Emalon but save you cooldowns for the adds. When emalon cast Lightning Nova use your Cloak Of Shadows and you can resist one. When he cast it again you can sprint to get out faster and get back into combat faster. When i said timing is important i mean it. When he enrages one of the adds you have to be paramount to run over and start popping cooldowns to down that add as fast as possible. If you are HaT spec you can get in some extra DPS by getting shadow step. It is completely optional to get, but in mobile fights it can make a difference and the damage increase is not bad either. After he enrages the adds and you kill one, you will go back to normal dps on Emalon until he is dead. I cannot stress how simple of a concept this is and how easy of a fight this is for a rogue. The difference between this fight and the old Vault boss, is huge because you need most everyone alive or your DPS is going to have to be geared to the teeth to survive.
--Tips--
Heres a tip for this fight, CLOAK OF SHADOWS OR RUN OUT OF LIGHTNING NOVA! No but i gave combat spec a significant advantage over both other specs for this fight because of the situational DPS requirement when killing the adds. You want to have Adrenaline Rush + Blade Flurry (to pad the meters on a non-enraged add) to put out some extreme dps during that time. Mutilate however can do well also and HaT here has a chance to do ok. |
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B547C
@mchsi.com | reply to Critsmcgee
Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1
At the moment the only weapons I have is Sinister revenge and 2 LPCS. I am using Mut raid spec which weapons should I be using and where. Not sure im understanding you on the subject in Assassination Spec 3.1
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Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25
1 edit | You should be using Sinister revenge in your MH with instant poison on it and then LPC in your OH with deadly. If you can get a slower dagger though or at least one with better stats. LPC got a huge nerf with the PPM changes to poisons although the procs from focused attacks will be nice. The Sons of Hodir sells alot better dagger than LPC.
EDIT: Also alot better dagger drops in H HoS called The Flesh shaper. Aim for webbed death from Anub Rekan in 25 man naxx also. The best setup minus ulduar daggers is Sinister Revenge for MH and Webbed Death OR a Second sinister revenge for OH. |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA | You all are so freaking boring at nights. pff. |
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crytz
join:2009-03-17 | reply to Critsmcgee
Nice write up there Critsmcgee! I use combat/Hat for my spec's, so far I'm loving combat spec, HaT is a little harder to get used to because of the fluctuation of CP's.
Crytz/smolderthorn Horde side if anyone wants to armory me. |
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Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25
| Yea i have SRx2 so im still rocking mutilate and combat with my KTs reach. If i get better daggers i will stay mut but if i get a new fist then i will go combat HaT. People are talking combat pvp viable too. I seen the spec and it looks promising. 5% parry 5% dodge riposte and alot of survivability with killing spree for burst. Seems like it scould make a comback. |
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pr1mo
Premium
join:2003-11-12
Harwood Heights, IL | reply to Critsmcgee
comeback? lol when was combat ever a viable pvp spec... |
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AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
 ·Comcast
| said by pr1mo  :comeback? lol when was combat ever a viable pvp spec... Are you kidding? Repost used to be able to disarm people!
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I'm not a tax dodger, I'm a potential cabinet appointee! |
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Vmoney86
@cox.net
| reply to Critsmcgee
Really nice information here guys. One question as far as weapons I have Anarchy/WD and Silent Crusader/WD all of which have mongoose except anarchy. To push Max dps would it be better to stay as mutilate which I have been since expansion or switch to combat?
Thanks |
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B547C
@mchsi.com | reply to Critsmcgee
Thanks! I'll check out Sons of Hodir. |
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Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25 | reply to Vmoney86
Stay mutilate and get mongoose on anarchy. You cant do Sword dagger or hybrid specs with combat any more. |
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Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25
1 edit | reply to pr1mo
said by pr1mo :comeback? lol when was combat ever a viable pvp spec... Maces + Adrenaline Rush = Win
This was the setup that rogues used to run with mainly at the beggining of BC. It was op when maces would stun.
EDIT taken straight for wow wiki level 70 builds:
AR/Prep - 0/31/30 - PvP
This was "THE" build of 2.3. Post-2.3.2 this build is less attractive because AR was removed from Prep. Maces are the key to this build with the added mace stun effect. This was also a solid build before the hemo buff of Patch 2.3, and many used it with SS. If you do choose to move some points and use SS as your primary attack instead of hemo, picking up Blade Twisting for the daze effect would be wise. Improved Kick for the silence is also a nice bonus. |
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crytz
join:2009-03-17 | Yes, those were the days, if only blizz wouldn't have made mace's useless! |
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crytz
join:2009-03-17
·Comcast
| reply to Critsmcgee
I just realized they were going to change mace spec to be much better then it is now, I wonder why they reverted back to the way it is now? Maybe it was OP?
* Hunger for Blood – instead of a self-buff, this ability can only be used when there is a bleed effect on the target. However, it has no stacks and grants a 15% damage bonus.
* Adrenaline Rush – the cooldown on this ability has been lowered.
* Lightning Reflexes – reduced to 3 ranks. In addition to 2/4/6% dodge, this talent now also grants 4/7/10% passive melee haste.
* Killing Spree – while this ability is active, the rogue does 20% additional damage.
* Savage Combat – now causes 2/4% physical damage done.
* Mace Specialization – this talent now grants haste in addition to armor penetration. |
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Benty
join:2008-01-30
Durham, NC | reply to Critsmcgee
yeap, made me sad. Haste+AP would probably have put combat too far ahead of Mut spec. Or maybe the just stuck the haste part in to LR instead. If the haste was in LR and mace spec that would be pretty crazy with posions on PPM procs |
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Dropper
join:2008-09-18
Anchorage, AK
| reply to Critsmcgee
All I know is my dps went up between 500-1000 after the patch, depending on whether the fight was tank and spank (patchwerk) or you had to move around a bit (dance revolution).
The changes to combat were all good and finally put the spec somewhere close to mutilate. 10% extra damage just using up the talents points you needed to waste in something like improved sprint or kick in order to get to the next stage in the talent tree? Yes please.
As for poisons, elitist jerks had it mapped out a long time back, and I guess they'll do the same (or maybe have already) for the changes. They do it by spec and by weapon speed usually and I think most people know they're anal enough in their research to guarantee good results. |
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Sithra
join:2008-02-07 | Rogue are definitely back on top now. 6k dps on boss encounters, 7k on XT and 7.5k on Hodir, yes please. |
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