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Ravage_D
join:2003-03-28
Kingston, ON
 ·Primus Telecommuni..
 ·Cogeco Voip
| [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. I'm honestly having a very hard time understanding something. Perhaps somebody here could enlighten me.....
We all know torrents are throttled on almost every major ISP in Canada. My big question, is why do people even bother with them anymore?
Usenet is faster and more reliable. I use Cogeco and while their free Usenet service only has a weeks worth of retention...but it's still fairly decent.
What's even better is you're only using downstream.
I know people out there will argue that you have to pay for access to a Usenet service with decent retention -- but it's honestly not that expensive. You can go with Astraweb for just over $13 a month unlimited access.
That's less than the price of a meal at a restaurant or several beer at the bar.
Considering the heartache around torrents, how plagued they are with fake files/viruses and adware/banners associated with their indexing websites -- forget it.
Once you go Usenet, you never go back.
-RD | |
|  
Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
1 edit | Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. Usenet costs money, torrents are free.
Usenet has poor selection, torrents have far more available content, including much that is not and will never be on usenet.
There's no comparison. Free and greater selection versus expensive and limited selection.
I also generally do not have problems with fake or spam torrents. | |
| | Ravage_D
join:2003-03-28
Kingston, ON
·Primus Telecommuni..
·Cogeco Voip
1 edit | Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. said by Guspaz  :Usenet has poor selection, torrents have far more available content, including much that is not and will never be on usenet. I can't agree with this! I've found it to be the opposite! For what I'm looking for (and I'm pretty mainstream) there's the same or better selection on Usenet rather than on Torrents. Plus you don't have to deal with having poorly seeded files.
Perhaps we're looking for different things or in different places. | |
| | | 
nanook
Premium,MVM
join:2007-12-02
·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. said by Ravage_D :I know people out there will argue that you have to pay for access to a Usenet service with decent retention -- but it's honestly not that expensive. You can go with Astraweb for just over $13 a month unlimited access. Those who make only casual use of torrents do not want to pay extra for Usenet however modest the cost. Those who are heavy torrent users can spend as much for Usenet bandwidth as they pay their ISP for Internet access each month.
Considering the heartache around torrents, how plagued they are with fake files/viruses and adware/banners associated with their indexing websites -- forget it. I am a fairly heavy user of BT yet I have never gotten a fake file or virus nor do I have problems with ads on indexing websites, public and private. (Maybe they have ads and I simply do not see them because of AdBlockPlus.)
Perhaps we're looking for different things or in different places. Apparently. | |
| | Ikarasu
join:2004-01-09
Port Coquitlam, BC
·ITalkBB
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| said by Guspaz :Usenet costs money, torrents are free. Usenet has poor selection, torrents have far more available content, including much that is not and will never be on usenet. I also dont agree with this >_ While Torrents sometimes last longer... with newsgroup retention now at 200 days... and reposts frequently, pretty much everything on Torrent ends up on usenet.
Most the scene releases of TV shows and movies also appear on usenet before Torrent...albeit a whole few mins fast in most cases, but still.
That being said... why bother with them? Well, why not? If everyone gave up on torrents, and just went to Usenet... what do you think the ISPS next throttle would be?
Also... get into a private tracker, and you wont experience fake files. Even the very-non-exclusive ones like Torrentleech have good moderation, and a great selection.
I run both Usenet and torrents... I can say theyre pretty much both equal, sometimes Usenet has stuff torrent doesn't, sometimes Torrent has stuff usenet doesn't... People just pick their poison and stick with it.
One advantage I'd have to say with Usenet though... You can watch your TV shows/movies as you download them, so it's like streaming... almost watch anything instantly, it's good when you get the sudden urge to want to watch something, and not want to wait 40-60 mins for a movie to d/l. | |
| | | 
Zaaaaper
@rogers.com
| Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. Torrentleech needs an invitation to sign up could you invite me some how? As I'm unsure how to go about getting an Invite any other way.
My email Address is
Bob_is_here@rogers .com
Thank you for your time and hopefully that Invite
Bob | |
| | Black Moon
join:2005-02-01
Scarborough, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| said by Guspaz :Usenet costs money, torrents are free. Usenet has poor selection, torrents have far more available content, including much that is not and will never be on usenet. There's no comparison. Free and greater selection versus expensive and limited selection. I also generally do not have problems with fake or spam torrents. I second this, minus Guspaz's love for private trackers (which basically go against the filesharing principle even though they claim they don't).
I don't have much experience with usenet. Tried it some years ago, found it difficult to set up and find content (someone know a good guide on setting this up in Ubuntu?) and I don't like paying a monthly $10/mo for some 10 GB or so of content. | |
| | | Ikarasu
join:2004-01-09
Port Coquitlam, BC
·ITalkBB
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. You use ubuntu and have trouble with newsgroups? :P If your willing to take the plunge and go linux, I'd say newsgroups will be a breeze for you.
I only toy around in linux, dont use it on any of my main comps, so not sure which are good newsgroup programs. Find one that does nzbs, then goto some free nzb site. Then it works like torrents... you search for what you want, dl the nzb, hit open, and it should work.
Better yet... find one that has a built in supersearch function, and it dumbs down newsgroups so theyre easier then P2P like Kazaa/Limewire/Naspter.
Theres also a pretty good $12 a month provider, ngroups.net, unlimited downloads and really cheap. Maxes out my Internet connection too. | |
| | | | Black Moon
join:2005-02-01
Scarborough, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. said by Ikarasu :You use ubuntu and have trouble with newsgroups? :P If your willing to take the plunge and go linux, I'd say newsgroups will be a breeze for you. Well, I have been using Linux since 99 at work, but always had Windows at home because of games. Now that I can run most games in Linux as well as the latter constantly improving, I made the switch to Linux last year. I'm as happy as a pig in shit. I could never go back to Windows. My wife feels the same way (and she's not very computer savvy).
As for newsgroups, as I said, I just have not given it a try for many years. If anyone knows good, free newsgroups that don't impose too small caps, I'm sure I could be tempted.
quote:
I only toy around in linux, dont use it on any of my main comps, so not sure which are good newsgroup programs. Find one that does nzbs, then goto some free nzb site. Then it works like torrents... you search for what you want, dl the nzb, hit open, and it should work.
NZBs?
quote:
Better yet... find one that has a built in supersearch function, and it dumbs down newsgroups so theyre easier then P2P like Kazaa/Limewire/Naspter.
Will have a look soon.
quote:
Theres also a pretty good $12 a month provider, ngroups.net, unlimited downloads and really cheap. Maxes out my Internet connection too.
America only, or also from Europe? I'll be moving to France in two weeks. | |
| | | | | 
Stewy
Premium
join:2007-12-12
Kitchener, ON
| Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. said by Black Moon :If anyone knows good, free newsgroups A "good" and "free" binary newsgroup doesn't exist, if you want something decent you'll need a provider.
--
It's all... part of the plan. | |
| | | | | | Black Moon
join:2005-02-01
Scarborough, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. said by Stewy :A "good" and "free" binary newsgroup doesn't exist, if you want something decent you'll need a provider. Alright, how about one that is free? Speed is less important to me than money, though I am open to suggestions for paid newsgroups with good content.
Then again, almost all my needs are either satisfied by torrents or eMule. Unless someone can find Quincy Jones' 'Basie & Beyond' as FLAC or APE on newsgroups - and a few other rarities - I don't think I'd need to bother. | |
| | | | | | | Ikarasu
join:2004-01-09
Port Coquitlam, BC
·ITalkBB
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. Teksavvy (Presuming your still on them) Provides free binary newsgroups if you pay $4 a month for a static IP. It's limited at 1.5M though I believe.
Flacs are one thing I miss about torrents tbh. They don't have flacs... but nowheres near as much as Oink did. I hear waffles has a lot... but sadly it's private, and since I got out of the BT scene... not very easy to find someone with invites. You might have better luck though...and I imagine they'd have it in flac :P | |
| | | | | | | | Black Moon
join:2005-02-01
Scarborough, ON | Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. I really despise private bittorrent trackers for a host of reasons, so I won't be searching around for invites to any of them.
I'll see about newsgroups once I'm in France, because signing up now is useless. Thanks for your help. | |
| | | elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
join:2006-08-30
Toronto, ON
|
said by Black Moon :I don't have much experience with usenet. Tried it some years ago, found it difficult to set up and find content (someone know a good guide on setting this up in Ubuntu?) and I don't like paying a monthly $10/mo for some 10 GB or so of content. Huh? I pay Usenetserver 13/month unlimited??? | |
| | | | cbp
join:2005-11-24
Montreal, QC
| Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. said by elwoodblues :said by Black Moon :I don't have much experience with usenet. Tried it some years ago, found it difficult to set up and find content (someone know a good guide on setting this up in Ubuntu?) and I don't like paying a monthly $10/mo for some 10 GB or so of content. Huh? I pay Usenetserver 13/month unlimited??? I pay Astraweb 11/month unlimited. | |
| | | | | elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
join:2006-08-30
Toronto, ON
1 edit | Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. said by cbp :said by elwoodblues :said by Black Moon :I don't have much experience with usenet. Tried it some years ago, found it difficult to set up and find content (someone know a good guide on setting this up in Ubuntu?) and I don't like paying a monthly $10/mo for some 10 GB or so of content. Huh? I pay Usenetserver 13/month unlimited??? I pay Astraweb 11/month unlimited. While I can't speak for Astraweb today, I did use them sometime ago.
In my experience no evening/weekend support.
poor retention
Just a bad experience overall.
Oh and your 11/month is at 1mbit speed, a total waste of time. | |
| | | | | | cbp
join:2005-11-24
Montreal, QC
1 edit | Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. said by elwoodblues :While I can't speak for Astraweb today, I did use them sometime ago. In my experience no evening/weekend support. poor retention Just a bad experience overall. Oh and your 11/month is at 1mbit speed, a total waste of time. Trying support right now. Let us hope that it works ok.
Retention wise I got a 90+ day old file. Didn't need anything older.
It is Unlimited DSL which has no speed limit (a special). It maxes out my 7Mbps connection. | |
| | | | | | Phorkster
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Windsor, ON
 ·Cogeco Cable
·Cogeco Voip
| said by elwoodblues :While I can't speak for Astraweb today, I did use them sometime ago. In my experience no evening/weekend support. poor retention Just a bad experience overall. Oh and your 11/month is at 1mbit speed, a total waste of time. I get 1MB/s +. I max my connection. | |
|
Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC | Other than scene releases, many things that I download are simply not available on Usenet. Anime and videos encoded by private sites like HDBits are either less or not available on Usenet. Why should I pay more to get less? | |
|
Lukee
@videotron.ca
| 00:19 &Tracers • [ ScT ] [ #1 ] [ Code.Monkeys.S02E12.DSR.XViD-SYS ] [ PRE: 29 Sec ]
00:19 &Tracers • [ SCC ] [ #2 ] [ Code.Monkeys.S02E12.DSR.XViD-SYS ] [ PRE: 36 Sec ]
00:20 &Tracers • [ CT ] [ #3 ] [ Code.Monkeys.S02E12.DSR.XViD-SYS ] [ PRE: 55 Sec ]
00:20 &Tracers • [ BN ] [ #4 ] [ Code.Monkeys.S02E12.DSR.XViD-SYS ] [ PRE: 56 Sec ]
00:20 &Tracers • [ GFT ] [ #5 ] [ Code.Monkeys.S02E12.DSR.XViD-SYS ] [ PRE: 1 Min 2 Sec ]
00:20 &Tracers • [ RB ] [ #6 ] [ Code.Monkeys.S02E12.DSR.XViD-SYS ] [ PRE: 1 Min 7 Sec ]
(pre: the time it took to hit torrents sites since it was uploaded to topsites (FTP servers) (top of the piracy foodchain)
Dont tell me that Usenet gets stuff before torrents because that's absolutely false. i always max out my connection on ScT and SCC (2 of the best private torrent trackers). I dont pay for piracy. | |
| cbp
join:2005-11-24
Montreal, QC
| I'd say that they complement each other.
For 720p/1080p vids, usenet is much better since it makes the download faster. For other things, torrents are better.
When something is not on usenet use torrents, and vice versa.
It is not the time to bash these protocols but make use of them while we still can. | |
| |
Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
| Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. I disagree. HDBits has a far better collection of 720p and 1080p content than Usenet does. Usenet might have most of that content as the 1080i or 1080p raws, but the HDBits community themselves are the ones that re-encode them down to DVD5 and DVD9 sizes at 720p and 1080p. They're fanatical about quality, and scoff at the scene encodes as being shoddy. And their content is only available on the site, since it's private. | |
| | | cbp
join:2005-11-24
Montreal, QC
| Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. said by Guspaz :I disagree. HDBits has a far better collection of 720p and 1080p content than Usenet does. Usenet might have most of that content as the 1080i or 1080p raws, but the HDBits community themselves are the ones that re-encode them down to DVD5 and DVD9 sizes at 720p and 1080p. They're fanatical about quality, and scoff at the scene encodes as being shoddy. And their content is only available on the site, since it's private. Keyword: Private.
Most of the people can't get in since it is private and it is hard to get invites.
You also have to keep a good ratio of at least 1:1.
With current internet connection of 10:1 download to upload ratio, it becomes almost impossible to maintain a good standing.
Now add throttling to that and it all goes to bell hell.
Both protocols are good if you use them.  | |
| 
MisawaGQ
Divi Filius
Premium
join:2002-12-19
Mississauga
| Most everything is on usenet at some point, but to get older things, you need torrents or luck. Usenet is obviously faster, but you kind of need to stay on top of things to get the most out of it. If you're serious about file sharing, you should probably use both, as they each have their own advantages.
--
"Let them hate, so long as they fear" -- Lucius Accius | |
| Glove
join:2008-04-06 | Torrents have and will change the world | |
| 
IIgs
Premium
join:2002-10-05
Montreal, QC
| I actually much prefer Torrents, and I'm speaking as a veteran user of Usenet (I first started downloading from binary groups in 1992 through a dial-in VMS/VAX shell account, manually saving each segment, downloading it, and then using UUdecoder software on the computer side. Apple II's even had their own format called BinScii). 
Torrents are just so quick and simple. Click on the link, select a download location--DONE.
Usenet you have to download ALL the headers first (how long can that take?), find and hope all the segments are there, and if not try and repair it with PAR files. Searching for something particular is rather a pain too. I'm sure there's better options than NewsBin Pro (what I'm using at the moment) but because of all that's involved, I rarely use my Usenet connection.
I have free Giganews access with my current ISP, but only 4 streams at about 15K/sec. Been extremely happy with Torrents, except that they seem to be getting throttled lately to ~30K/sec at different times of the day (gotta love Bell Canada for messing with third party ISPs). That's the only reason I'd thought of switching back to Usenet recently... | |
| |
Stewy
Premium
join:2007-12-12
Kitchener, ON
| Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. said by IIgs :(I first started downloading from binary groups in 1992 through a dial-in VMS/VAX shell account Usenet you have to download ALL the headers first (how long can that take?) on the first part I posted my first Usenet post in December 1992 I even found it in Google. I also use to work with VMS so I know where your coming from.
on the second part, I don't have to d/l all headers. For example I goto binsearch.net (free) and do a search on what I need and then create a nzb file and then use agent to import and start d/l. I can search/find/start d/l in under a minute.
One of the things working against torrents is that you have to deal with Private trackers which is not the case for usenet. | |
| | |
IIgs
Premium
join:2002-10-05
Montreal, QC
| Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. said by Stewy :said by IIgs :(I first started downloading from binary groups in 1992 through a dial-in VMS/VAX shell account Usenet you have to download ALL the headers first (how long can that take?) on the first part I posted my first Usenet post in December 1992 I even found it in Google. I also use to work with VMS so I know where your coming from. Looked in Google, mine was June 1992. Ironically, I asked a question about Usenet retention in that post. (and two days earlier, going by dates, I inadvertently posted a binary to the same discussion group. A piece of software only a few kilobytes large but it's now preserved forever I guess!). Just brought back a flash back memory, to post a binary back then I would actually open the EDT editor in VAX and do a direct screen dump into the editor, then save it. Yeah, trying watching hundreds of pieces of UUencoded data, scroll onto screen line by line, at 2400 baud! And hope there was no line noise from beginning to end. Fun!).
on the second part, I don't have to d/l all headers. For example I goto binsearch.net (free) and do a search on what I need and then create a nzb file and then use agent to import and start d/l. I can search/find/start d/l in under a minute. Ack! How did I not know this? You know what, I just tried it and can't believe how easy that was! I may just switch back over to Usenet thanks to your tip--seriously! One thing, is there a way to see how large the complete data file will be? (i.e. say I'm looking for a video files exactly 700MB, as opposed to a poorly encoded version that's 500-something). Wow, thanks for this!
One of the things working against torrents is that you have to deal with Private trackers which is not the case for usenet. That has definitely been a big turn off. I'll find something I really want, and then get that dreaded message about it being private... :P | |
| | Phorkster
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Windsor, ON
·Cogeco Cable
·Cogeco Voip
| said by IIgs :Usenet you have to download ALL the headers first (how long can that take?), find and hope all the segments are there, and if not try and repair it with PAR files. Searching for something particular is rather a pain too. I'm sure there's better options than NewsBin Pro (what I'm using at the moment) but because of all that's involved, I rarely use my Usenet connection. Eh? DL all the headers? Time to get out of the 90s bro. Newsleecher w/Supersearch == your friend. Search for what you want, right click and click SmartSelect, it selects all the files of the same name. Click on DL, and watch as Newsleecher, DLs verifies the pars, joins them, unRars them and leaves a fresh ISO or other in a directory you want... Doesn't get much easier than that.
They both have their advantages, but for me its Usenet. | |
|
jerycan2424242
@mitra.com
| The point isn't whether torrents are better or worse Usenet. The point is Bell shouldn't be throttling. We don't have account with bell. If there wasn't such a thing as P2P downloading, Bell would be trying to subvert Usenet access for binary downloading.
KAPISH?!?! | |
| 
quickbeam
Premium
join:2003-06-01
Ottawa | Th..r..o..ttle...what's that?
I'm enjoying fulls speeds up/down.
Cheers. | |
|
bottlenecked
@3menatwork.com | BitTorrent on VPS : best solution ? | |
|
Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
| Fails.
I recently downloaded a 720p copy of the movie WarGames. Interested to see if I could find it on usenet with "binsearch", I told it to search for "wargames 720p" in the last 120 days.
Zero results. Looks like you can't get the movie in HD on usenet.
So, the FIRST movie I try to find on usenet isn't there. I'll stick to torrents, thanks. Not that you can find that on a public torrent site either. But it shows that in my case, I'm better off sticking where I am; using private and public torrent sites. | |
| | Ikarasu
join:2004-01-09
Port Coquitlam, BC
·ITalkBB
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. Wargames 1, or 2? I wouldnt trust binsearch for everything.
I just did a "Supersearch" and found "WarGames 1080i 50Hz-HYPERLOVE"
Not 720, but its there.
I just got a HDTV, so not so sure about HD results. But I'll agree, a HDTV private site probably has way more results/faster relases, simply because of the huge base of people who are there for nothing but HDTV.
Lets just say both of them have their conveniences. I've found quite a few movies on Usenet that I couldn't get on Torrent, and I've also found a few on torrent that I couldn't get on usenet. Theres nothing wrong with either, it all just depends on what the user is looking for.
quote:
Dont tell me that Usenet gets stuff before torrents because that's absolutely false. i always max out my connection on ScT and SCC (2 of the best private torrent trackers). I dont pay for piracy.
You listed 1 release. BT does have some topsite releasers... but not every single release gets released to torrent instantly. Some Topsite groups release to usenet also... with 100M up, they get posted almost instantly to newsgroup sites (As well as torrent sites).
Binsearch lists Eureka as being posted 2 hours ago (Sadly it doesn't do down to the minute info, and my news client doesn't either) And SCT lists it as 2 hours 20 mins ago. I'm willing to be within 1-2 mins of eachother, they were posted to both.
Theyre both about equal in new content... BT has the benefit of having more rare stuff then newsgroups, And Usenet has the benefit of privacy.
I personally use both. And at $12 a month for unlimited downloads, I don't really see it as a waste. If nothing else then for music... Don't get me wrong, music is great on BT, but finding singles is annoying, and having to go through albums and select 1 file is much more work... With newsgroups you type in the song name in your client (If it supports supersearch) Hit download, and take away a few steps. Useless for most, really nice for me, as I said... it's a user preference, and I think it'd be stupid to say 1 is more superior then the other, the end result is usually the same no matter which service you go with. | |
| pstewart
Premium,VIP
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON
1 edit | Personally, I agree ... everyone will have an opinion here based on their requirements. And some ISP's bundle Usenet with their services as a value add which can be very nice.... | |
| elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
join:2006-08-30
Toronto, ON | Download headers? Never hear of NZB's? Or use the search function most NSP offer?
I had a GS once, hated it.. went back to my //e | |
| TFArchive
Premium
join:2003-02-03
Gloucester, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| I too prefer newsgroups, I've used them for over 10 years now, before p2p really existed. I think the reason people are hesitant to use newsgroups is because it takes a bit of setup/learning to use them, although with nzbs and programs like grabit it is as easy as torrents.
Public Torrents are great for selection but the problem with them is they tend to die pretty quickly, so if you find a torrent that is over 30 days old you are likely to have problems getting decent speeds or completing it.
Private trackers are different as they have dedicated people seeding long term things to boost their ratio. With private trackers it is really hard to keep the 1:1 ratio with a residential connection as by the time you finish the file so have 100 other people and the power seeders are still giving the most amount of bandwidth, so you'll be seeding for days if you download anything but small stuff.
I rarely use torrents and when I do I use my 100mbit dedicated server as I know I can get to 1:1 ratio with that.
For newsgroups and with the advent of nzb files it is un-necessary to download headers unless you are looking for some un-indexed stuff. Once an episode is posted it doesn't usually take long to be indexed at the major nzb sites so you're downloading right away. Yes torrents are up a bit quicker in most cases but it is a trade off, do you want 0-sec pre's or are you okay with waiting 5-10 minutes for popular stuff (TV shows) to be posted to newsgroups where you don't have to keep a ratio.
Yes, newsgroups cost money, but for the amount of time I spend dealing a with downloads it is far easier for me to tag a bunch of nzbs and let newsbin download for days. It autopars and can even extract stuff for me if I choose. With torrents you have to manage which one gets how much bandwidth and stop seeding 1:1 files so the others can try to get to 1:1. | |
| Ravage_D
join:2003-03-28
Kingston, ON
·Primus Telecommuni..
·Cogeco Voip
| Thanks everybody for your comments! This is actually the type of debate I was looking for.
I honestly think the difficulty in getting started is what prevents people from using newsgroups -- but it's all a matter of what programs/websites you use.
There's a program called Alt.Binz, which is what I've been using, that has a built in search function for several sites that allow you to one-click download or stream as you download.
There are also sites like nzbmatrix.com which host nzb files for you to download and import into Alt.Binz (or other programs) allowing you to again, one click download from the web almost exactly like torrents.
Also I know people on this forum are more likely to be advanced computer users -- but a lot of my thoughts on newsgroups apply for the basic everyday user (like my house mates for instance).
Several people on here admitted straight up that torrents are great with their private trackers/sites. Okay, great. So you have this private tracker that requires 1:1 or similar ratios. I don't think everyday joe-blow could use it simply because they can't get a membership or whatnot. Even if they were willing to pay for it.
Anybody can get complete access to the newsgroups with their subscription to the news server.
So sure, if you're using an advanced set up to get around throttling (MLPPP) or using private/exclusive tracking sites then great. Go for torrents. But I'm saying average people wont bother.
And does it really matter how fast a piece of content gets posted? If it's one hour on Usenet vs. half an hour on torrent site X. Again, for those advanced users who really care -- fine again! But most average people don't.
The other very strong argument is the bandwidth usage. Usenet is only downstream! So for people (like me..and many others) who have bandwidth caps that include both up and down, I can get up to twice as much content.
Sure torrents may have more obscure things. But again -- a lot of average user only wants last nights episode of X or last weeks episode of this or whatever. Guaranteed to be on Usenet. Perhaps half an hour after it appears on torrents but then again, you're maxing out your connection speed instantly on usenet.. you may save some time.
And as for Wargames in HD, I too found it on Usenet (the 1080i version), but I failed to find it on isohunt or mininova or thepiratebay. Looks like you had to turn to one of those exclusive private sites again. But that's fine.
I agree completely with Ikarasu. It's not whether one protocol is better or worse than the other they both have applications. I'm just saying that after using Usenet and seeing how great it is, I didn't understand why others haven't been using it. I have a better idea of it now that we've had this discussion.
But I still feel that people (again, people I consider average -- my friends and whatnot who aren't computer experts or well versed in the internet) should just forget the nightmare that is torrents and throttling and just go with Usenet.
Ikarasu, you'd actually be surprised how much HD is available on Usenet! Check out nzbmatrix and filter movies by HD. I've a PS3 which streams great and all the PS3AVCHD releases are out on Usenet (no need for conversion). | |
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gnumantsc
join:2003-07-23
·ELECTRONICBOX
| But it seems that we are missing the point that it seems you are talking about illegal files here on Usenet.
What about downloading linux distros which mainly use p2p? I don't see the latest distro being offered on newsgroups. I would be extremely surprised if they were offered. | |
| Ravage_D
join:2003-03-28
Kingston, ON
·Primus Telecommuni..
·Cogeco Voip
| Just a few more comments! Thanks again for posting guys and I will definitely look into Newsleecher. Thanks Ikarasu!
Guspaz:
Yes, we understand that in your situation you're most likely paying for two DSL lines which I would imagine are running in MLPPP through most likely a router with Tomato firmware. We also understand that you've done all the work required to circumvent the throttling on what I assume are Bell lines and that you're actively maintaining your ratios on the private sites that you're a member of. Of course I could be completely wrong in this assumption but that's just my best guess.
Nobody is holding a gun to your head here and telling you to use Usenet. If I had the same amazing setup as you did.. you're right. I'd never use Usenet either.
Just please recognize that your situation is not that common and there are a lot of people out there who perhaps can't afford a second DSL line (but can afford an extra $13/month) or who don't know how to get in to such a great set up.
I'm on Cable :P There's no switching to DSL for me, even though that temptation is great.....
gnumantsc: Well, this is a good point. Although when I did a search for some iso releases, there are a few. But definitely not nearly as good of a selection as would be found distributed using the torrent protocol.
However, realistically, and I don't want to just pull some ridiculous percentage out of nowhere so I wont. But I'd reckon (haha) that the vast majority of torrent traffic is some form of "illegal" file transfer. Of course once again, I could be completely wrong -- I'm no traffic expert.
For those people unfortunately throttled when trying to get the distros, I guess they'll just have to download off of the mirror sites or universities that host the iso releases.. | |
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Last Parade
One of the Brightest Stars
join:2002-10-07
Port Colborne, ON | The clear answer is not for one or the other, but both. I will try usenet first because I know it will be a fast, reliable download. If I can't find it there, I will look for torrents. | |
| pstewart
Premium,VIP
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON
| Umm... just to clarify - some ISP's provide premium newsgroups at no charge. It's not super popular and I'm not plugging anyone (I work for an ISP) but everyone gets caught up in the $$$ factor here sometimes and wanted to provide a few thoughts.... it's looked as a value add for some ISP's....
--
Nexicom High Speed Internet - »www.nexicom.net/ | |
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Stewy
Premium
join:2007-12-12
Kitchener, ON
| Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. said by pstewart :just to clarify - some ISP's provide premium newsgroups at no charge. I wouldn't call it "premium" they probably buy it from some other provider but host it on their own systems. The quality will never be the same as a real provider.
BTW I just got an email from newsguy yesterday saying that they will move next week. It will only get better.
"This move will provide a highly robust Internet connection and vastly improved peering for your route to NewsGuy. A major increase in bandwidth resources, additional front-end servers and upgraded hardware, together with a 30% increase in Usenet articles retention will accommodate faster throughput and an enriched Usenet experience." | |
| | | Ikarasu
join:2004-01-09
Port Coquitlam, BC
·ITalkBB
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. said by vitesse :if I remember well newsgroup add a much as 25% overhead to file as it's need to encode the files in base64 or yenc, so you download more bite for the same file than in torrent. and torrent is the prefered transfer protocol for open source project like Linux distribution. hmm? YenC which is the standard that most groups/sites post to Newsgroups, have 1-2% overhead. I believe your thinking of the olden days when people used UUencode, back when it was 30-40%. Nowadays... their is less overhead... And without the need to upload, You use far less bandwidth then you would if you used Torrent.
Not sure on the specifics of Torrents... but constantly contacting trackers for peers, updating them, ect, it's probably around more (But not by much). And the more torrents you have, the more overhead... I believe you can get up to 15-20% overhead if your downloading 10 torrents at once (which I doubt most people do... :P) Probably around 2-3%, And their is also bad hashes. I have: 1.16 MB on a 700 mb file, 9 on a 20 GB file.
Bah.. point is, Comparing overhead... it's such a small difference between the two it doesn't matter. | |
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vitesse
join:2002-12-17
Saint-Jean-Sur-Richelieu, QC | Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. Your probably right... 25% would be more for uuencode... I stoped to use newsgroup a the beginning of yenc. | |
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