saillaw
Premium
join:2007-05-08
Dubai
| reply to Omega
Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves!
said by Omega  :I've pretty much gotten over all issues with PVP gear vs PVE gear, ect. However one thing remains a problem: resilience. I play on a PVP server. Since I am a raider (and don't PVP) I have only my PVE gear to wear. This is great when it comes to doing dailys or farming mobs. However, I am at a huge disadvantage when I am being attacked by an enemy player (one in PVP gear). In my opinion, I feel I am being punished because I choose to go the PVE route in the game to get my gear. I worked just as hard, if not harder than PVPers, yet they have the clear advantage when it comes to world PVP. So, I have two solutions: 1. Resilience only works in arena and battleground. PVP players will still have a slight advantage because their gear has more +stam than mine. or 2. Give PVE gear +resilience without affecting its ilevel. By this I mean that all the stats on the piece of gear create the ilevel and resilience adds zero. Not anything game breaking, but enough to keep us viable when it comes to world pvp combat. Both of those are pretty fair to PVEers and PVPers. I totally agree with this. I think not having resil work outside of BG's and Arenas would be the way to go.
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Hanging with my Gnomies |
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AB_Lazy
@dslextreme.com
| reply to saillaw
And yeah, I'll take it to the other thread as well. I really should just log in to have the editing function, lol. But, as the name says, I've just been too lazy to grab my USB drive to retrieve my passwords each time.
As per on topic:
If you see a warlock hellfiring themselves to death in a wipe, heal them. They will be your bestest friend ever. (or arch nemesis, either one's fine) |
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AB_Lazy
@dslextreme.com
| reply to Omega
said by Omega :In my opinion, I feel I am being punished because I choose to go the PVE route in the game to get my gear. I worked just as hard, if not harder than PVPers, yet they have the clear advantage when it comes to world PVP. Olympic runners put forth a crazy amount of effort of exertion, training, and time vested. Yet, they they get their asses handed to them by professional video game players who do nothing more than play games and eat Cheetos. I say that's not fair. 
You worked your way for PvE, and they worked their way for PvP. It's only fair that each becomes "good" at an area they are actually training for.
said by Omega :Both of those are pretty fair to PVEers and PVPers. Your proposition is only beneficial to PvErs and gives the shaft to PvPers. If this were a "fair" proposition, then PvP gear would similarly recieve PvE benefits as well, and then we'd have an even bigger problem of gear intermingling than we do today.
If anything, Blizzard needs to keep PvE and PvP gears even more seperate in WotLK so that seasonal QQs can finally pitter off and die. |
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MaybeTrouble
join:2008-05-09
Anchorage, AK
| reply to saillaw
The one huge problem with things like S2 from BGs is exactly what one poster said, no one sees the value in running normal instances.
It's more or less the same issue as allowing someone with only honored rep into a heroic.
I think the reason for demanding T4+ for any instance is more a demand for players who know what they're doing. It's not always the case, but mostly people who have a 3 or 4 T4 or better know how to act in an instance. They don't blow away CC in an attempt to top damage meters, they allow tanks to keep aggro on mobs and bosses and they don't try to run through the middle of 5 mobs to be first to get to a chest.
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If people taste like bacon, doesn't it follow that bacon tastes like people? |
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Omega
Displaced Ohioan
Premium
join:2002-07-30
Cheyenne, WY
clubs: 
 ·Bresnan Online
 ·Verizon Wireless B..
·Comcast
 ·AT&T Midwest
| reply to DownLow
said by DownLow :No offense implied, but shouldn't you have rolled on a PVE server then? see my reply in the other thread. |
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ErikVKing
Erik the Viking
Premium
join:2008-06-19
Davenport, IA | reply to saillaw
Go to: PvE vs. PvP gear!
Stop the madness, get back on topic, and post gear responses here! »PvE vs. PvP gear!
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"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise." |
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DownLow
Nope...I Got Nothing
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Long Island
| reply to SkellBasher
Re: Locks steal gold from healers.... little thieves!
Well...at the sake of being obvious, one simple fact remains in regards to PVP...it is (or is supposed to be) about skill.
While gear is certainly a major contributor to success, ultimately, it is supposed to come down to skill. Not that the best gear should be given away, but think about that concept. If we are all on "roughly" even footing gear-wise, the better player should win. That said, the people who work the hardest should be rewarded for their effort so I agree with the ratings fixes, awards, etc.
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Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult! |
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Zyncotl
Zed X
Premium
join:2002-09-13
Wayne, MI
2 edits | reply to Omega
said by Omega :In my opinion, I feel I am being punished because I choose to go the PVE route in the game to get my gear. I worked just as hard, if not harder than PVPers, yet they have the clear advantage when it comes to world PVP. They have an advantage in world PvP, you have an advantage in ALL forms of PvE including raids, instances, and world bosses.
I fail to see the problem that a person who plays a ton of PvP should have better gear than you when it comes to PvP. You have every advantage in PvE for dedicating your time to PvE. It's called making choices.
If you are a PvE player ONLY why do you care about the PvP zones? When I stopped raiding and went PvP I didn't care about any of the PvE world bosses that I didn't have accesst to. You choose your path in the game. If you want PvP gear and it's SO EASY to get then spend a little time and get some.
Hell you can even buy resilience gems and load up some PvE based gear to brindge some of the gap if you are so inclined. Use your badges to get the cloak yada yada yada. |
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SkellBasher
Yes Sorto, I'll take my Prozac
join:2000-10-22
North Tonawanda, NY
| reply to Omega
said by Omega :1. Resilience only works in arena and battleground. PVP players will still have a slight advantage because their gear has more +stam than mine. I LOVE this idea. I have long thought resilience was a horrible idea personally.
To DownLow, even PvE servers have world PvP content that players want to experience. In WotLK, there's an entire outdoor, non-instanced zone for PvP, even on PvE servers.
As things are now, these zones are almost useless for raiding PvE players. |
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DownLow
Nope...I Got Nothing
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Long Island | reply to Omega
No offense implied, but shouldn't you have rolled on a PVE server then?
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Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult! |
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Omega
Displaced Ohioan
Premium
join:2002-07-30
Cheyenne, WY
clubs:
·Bresnan Online
·Verizon Wireless B..
·Comcast
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to saillaw
I've pretty much gotten over all issues with PVP gear vs PVE gear, ect.
However one thing remains a problem: resilience.
I play on a PVP server. Since I am a raider (and don't PVP) I have only my PVE gear to wear. This is great when it comes to doing dailys or farming mobs. However, I am at a huge disadvantage when I am being attacked by an enemy player (one in PVP gear).
In my opinion, I feel I am being punished because I choose to go the PVE route in the game to get my gear. I worked just as hard, if not harder than PVPers, yet they have the clear advantage when it comes to world PVP.
So, I have two solutions:
1. Resilience only works in arena and battleground. PVP players will still have a slight advantage because their gear has more +stam than mine.
or
2. Give PVE gear +resilience without affecting its ilevel. By this I mean that all the stats on the piece of gear create the ilevel and resilience adds zero. Not anything game breaking, but enough to keep us viable when it comes to world pvp combat.
Both of those are pretty fair to PVEers and PVPers.
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Whats smells like blue? |
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drew
Reformation
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
clubs:
·wavebroadband
| reply to AB_Lazy
said by AB_Lazy :
I have a question for you then. If PvE and PvP gear were kept seperate (ie. PvE gear barred from BG/Arenas and PvP gear barred from raid instances), would that float your boat? I'm just curious with your opinion on this one. Hell yes. |
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Gork
Ou812ic
join:2001-10-06
Juneau, AK
 ·magicjack.com
| reply to saillaw
heh
In kara and 5mans (all I've done post expansion) I don't EXPECT heals when I lifetap but by damn if I don't APPRECIATE them! And I'll be the first to commend the healer on my DPS... The only way I have to replenish my life is drain life and it does meh damage and meh heal amount. Heck, sometimes those HoTs slow my dps down 'cuz I spend MORE time lifetapping than I need to to keep up with the HoTs so I don't make the healer feel like they're wasting their heals on me.  jk of course. I feel the need to make that clear. |
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Dissembled
join:2008-01-23
Indianapolis, IN | reply to saillaw
How did this thread get hijacked into the tired old arguement of PVE vs PVP gear?
I was having fun pissing people off and bashing locks. |
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AB_Lazy
@dslextreme.com
| reply to ErikVKing
said by ErikVKing :The text in bold: How can you say that without smacking yourself...? How can "new to raiding..." and "days of yore" be used together when "days of yore" = far from NEW?! Interesting way to derail a statement. In your previous thread, you comment about things being better in pre-TBC, and that you're taking a more active raiding position now in TBC. It seems that one of your main complaints is that the game/system is not like it was pre-TBC - when PvE gear was the end-all-be-all of gear acquisition. While you may find that better, many of the new subscribers (and developer focus) would disagree.
said by ErikVKing :HOW CAN YOU SAY BEING ABLE TO SOLO YOUR WAY TO END-GAME EQUIVALENT GEAR IS FINE, WHEN YOU CANNOT SOLO "QUEUE" YOURSELF INTO A RAID? Why so serious?
Show me a Sunwell raid running members decked with S1/2 weapons/armor/etc. and I'll agree. Until then, both raiders and PvPers are parking their ass plunking down "effort time". I really don't see anything wrong with both parties getting rewards.
I have a question for you then. If PvE and PvP gear were kept seperate (ie. PvE gear barred from BG/Arenas and PvP gear barred from raid instances), would that float your boat? I'm just curious with your opinion on this one. |
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SkellBasher
Yes Sorto, I'll take my Prozac
join:2000-10-22
North Tonawanda, NY
| reply to MaybeTrouble
said by MaybeTrouble :Haven't seen or noticed any diminishing returns on fear that makes a difference. They changed the mechanic WAY back in 1.4.
Fear 1: Normal duration
Fear 2: 50% duration
Fear 3: 75% duration
Fear 4: Immune
These diminishing returns count if the next fear lands inside of 15 seconds of the last fear ending. If you're outside 15s, it resets to the top.
Anyone who does that much whining about being feared is either being tag teamed, or should lrn2trinket. |
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ErikVKing
Erik the Viking
Premium
join:2008-06-19
Davenport, IA
·Mediacom
| reply to AB_Lazy
said by AB_Lazy :said by ErikVKing :The gear should = effort/coordination. Plain, simple, and to the point. I really don't understand how: X hours of PvE effort != X hours of PvP effort I know you like to polarize the discussion by factoring in AFKers (something Blizzard has to address), but how is time spent in one area not equal to time spent in another? So long as Blizzard has your butt in the seat playing, there has to be some kind of reward/goal. A carrot on a stick, sans carrot, isn't exactly a moving proposition. I understand you're relatively new to the raiding atmosphere and you long for the "days of yore" where PvE content ruled all, but that's dead and gone (mostly). Asking Blizzard to now close down their own gold mine in the casual market won't go anywhere. Other MMORPGs have tried addressing these markets individually, but they've all fallen on their face in terms of subscriber numbers. Stopping a "good thing" isn't in the Blizzard's own best interests. The text in bold: How can you say that without smacking yourself...? How can "new to raiding..." and "days of yore" be used together when "days of yore" = far from NEW?!
Also, how can you not see what I type, or understand it? As I did with the other idiots on the otehr thread, I will close my remarks by pointing out, again, in bold: HOW CAN YOU SAY BEING ABLE TO SOLO YOUR WAY TO END-GAME EQUIVALENT GEAR IS FINE, WHEN YOU CANNOT SOLO "QUEUE" YOURSELF INTO A RAID? 'nuf said, buh-bye.
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"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise." |
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AB_Lazy
@dslextreme.com
| reply to ErikVKing
said by ErikVKing :The gear should = effort/coordination. Plain, simple, and to the point. I really don't understand how:
X hours of PvE effort != X hours of PvP effort
I know you like to polarize the discussion by factoring in AFKers (something Blizzard has to address), but how is time spent in one area not equal to time spent in another? So long as Blizzard has your butt in the seat playing, there has to be some kind of reward/goal. A carrot on a stick, sans carrot, isn't exactly a moving proposition.
I understand you're relatively new to the raiding atmosphere and you long for the "days of yore" where PvE content ruled all, but that's dead and gone (mostly). Asking Blizzard to now close down their own gold mine in the casual market won't go anywhere. Other MMORPGs have tried addressing these markets individually, but they've all fallen on their face in terms of subscriber numbers. Stopping a "good thing" isn't in the Blizzard's own best interests. |
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ErikVKing
Erik the Viking
Premium
join:2008-06-19
Davenport, IA | reply to AB_Lazy
The gear should = effort/coordination. Plain, simple, and to the point.
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"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise." |
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AB_Lazy
@dslextreme.com
| reply to MaybeTrouble
said by MaybeTrouble :You're expected to roll/dkp on PvE gear as it drops to replace PvP gear, but having PvE gear just because it's PvE gear doesn't make sense. Not if the S2 or whatever item has better PvE stats, which in same cases it does. Funny how that went. Hopefully Blizzard changes the stats around in WotLK so that the polarization between PvP and PvE gear is broader. As iLevels went up, eventually, the PvP gears replaced obtainable PvE gears for usefulness.
It's just an even bigger problem late in game as gear saturation hits ludicrous levels. To the new player, nobody is running their beginning 5-man content - there's just no reason to. If you do manage to find a group, the stat/gear expectations are so high that you won't get let in. (I remember seeing a LFG normal slabs, T4+ required, lol) New players are forced into the PvP field since they lack any other options, and the problem just grows.
I dunno. Maybe if Blizzard upgraded the introductary group content when they added in tiers/seasons, there'd be more demand. Maybe it can't be solved, I dunno. All I know, is it's gonna be ludicrous seeing LFGs Naxx, T7+ required (the instance is a 72-73 introductary "for fun" instance). Players entering late in the game need options as well. |
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