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cacruden

join:2008-03-18
Toronto, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..

Hands off our network, Bell tells CRTC

»www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008···ell.html

"BY PETER NOWAK — Bell Canada Inc. is calling on the courts to scrap mandated access by competitors to its network, a move that could jeopardize some smaller companies that sell phone and internet services.

The Montreal-based company on Wednesday filed a leave to appeal with the Federal Court of Canada to overturn a decision made by the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission in early March on what the regulator considers essential services.

The CRTC on March 3 reiterated that third-party companies should continue to be able to rent telephone companies' networks in order to provide their own customers with phone and internet services. The regulator considered this network access as essential for smaller companies to offer their services, and for some of them to survive.

In its appeal, Bell said such regulation is no longer necessary now that there is enough competition in phone and internet markets. In home phones, Bell is competing with a number of major cable companies, not to mention Voice over Internet Protocol providers and cellphone carriers. On the internet side, Bell faces competition from cable companies."

....continued on web site....

mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON

1 edit

Re: Hands off our network, Bell tells CRTC

I can't say I'm surprised, they've really been greedy recently. Let's hope the CRTC is smart enough to force them to keep wholesaling.
Radar73

join:2008-01-20
Ajax, ON

Re: Hands off our network, Bell tells CRTC

said by mlerner See Profile :

I can't say I'm surprised, they've really been greedy recently. Let's hope the CRTC is smart enough to force them to keep wholesaling.
... and force them to not interfere with network traffic that doesn't belong to them.
Radar73

join:2008-01-20
Ajax, ON

"Geist and others have criticized Minister of Industry Jim Prentice for his silence on the issue. Prentice was "disinterested" in the issue when it arose in question period in the House of Commons on Wednesday, he said."

This is pretty poor representation for consumers considering the barrage of complaints his office has received as of late.

upchuck

@videotron.ca

Re: Hands off our network, Bell tells CRTC

This just proves Bell was, and is, out to harm the competition like teksavvy.

matradley
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Ontario

1 edit

Re: Hands off our network, Bell tells CRTC

I thought, as according to Lazlo, there is no consumer backlash! XD

Malovech

join:2007-05-30
Toronto, ON

Re: Hands off our network, Bell tells CRTC

Goddamn conservative governments!
Shark_615

join:2006-01-17
Pickering, ON

Re: Hands off our network, Bell tells CRTC

said by Malovech See Profile :

Goddamn conservative governments!
I'm sorry but what the hell does the conservative government have to do with this? The last time I checked the CRTC worked separate of whatever government is in power.
yabos

join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON

said by upchuck :

This just proves Bell was, and is, out to harm the competition like teksavvy.
I agree. 3rd party ISPs are eating Bell's lunch and Rogers is in cohorts with them because everything Bell does Rogers does and everything Rogers does Bell does.

mattp2182

join:2007-11-07
London, ON
I agree, Minister pretince doesnt even seem to care. Is there anyone left in the government of this country (besides Mr.Angus) who actually care about the general public?
jkajfes

join:2007-10-01
Pickering, ON

1 edit

Re: Hands off our network, Bell tells CRTC

he's probably using a couple soup cans and string with one long and two short rings... why the heck would Princess I mean Prentice be worried about the net?

ShadPTR

join:2008-01-23
Markham, ON
This doesn't give me any hope.

mattp2182

join:2007-11-07
London, ON

Re: Hands off our network, Bell tells CRTC

Im waiting for the next election, i dont understand how any politician can possible think this isnt a big deal.

My vote will definatly not be conservative.
harleyb

join:2007-12-03
Kingston, ON
I see this as a good thing... Bell's outright saying that there's an issue, and they're bringing it straight to the CRTC. I think it would be much worse if Bell just tried to sweep the whole throttling thing under the carpet.
TFArchive
Premium
join:2003-02-03
Gloucester, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..

Sweet, so Bell thinks there is enough ISP competition so they want to stop selling access. Knock Knock McFly, if you stop selling access the competition will be gone, which would defeat the purpose of the original rules. (Yes I know that is their entire intent of this appeal)

BTW Bell your only competition is from 3rd party DSL companies and Cable, which last time I checked, didn't have any serious 3rd party resellers. (yes I know 3web and others technically provides cable but 1-2 people reselling the same service doesn't equal competition)

If bell does do this, I could see one of the biggest lawsuits in history coming and guess what, the CRTC would likely get sued for allowing it to happen.

shikotee

join:2007-01-11
Toronto, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico

Wow..... I feel like I have been taking crazy pills!

Here we all are, complaining to the CRTC about how uncompetitive things are, and they are arguing the exact opposite.

"Bell said such regulation is no longer necessary now that there is enough competition in phone and internet markets".

I honestly felt sick to my stomach after reading that.

Are we honestly living in the Bizarro world?
koreyb

join:2005-01-08
Etobicoke, ON
·Primus Talkbroadband
·TekSavvy Solutions..

I would hope Teksavvy and the other smaller ISPs, have a backup plan...

I have a feeling ISP's using Bell lines may be paying much more... MUCH MUCH MORE should they win at appealing this.

I think if the CRTC required the copper network to be owned and managed by a neutral party, that was contracted to provide service for Bell, and other ISPs/Phone CO's, this would end this crap.

I just don't see each co running their own copper/fiber down the road.

eots

join:2003-02-04

Re: Hands off our network, Bell tells CRTC

All the 3rd party ISP's need to band together and file a lawsuit against Bell ASAP before Bell has a chance to appeal the CRTC decision.

Bell's attitude toward competition is outrageous.

jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
·ELECTRONICBOX

>I would hope Teksavvy and the other smaller ISPs, have a >backup plan...

The Gaudraults probably already have a large mansion in the Bahamas (or Wawa, whichever they prefer)

They'll leave a dozen bananas in their barn to keep the employees fed for a week or two and perhaps a couple of timbits coupons.

How many "Teksavvy"s are there that are based in smaller towns?

And even in Chatham, despite our jokes about barns and cows, Teksavvy may not be considered a very large employer. Wouldn't be surprised if Bell had more employees in Chatham, perhaps even local offices filled with paper pushing civil servants.

So from the pont of view of MPs, mayor and chamber of commerce, they might not have that much support in a fight against a government willing to give Bell all the freedom it wants.
jkajfes

join:2007-10-01
Pickering, ON
gheeze let's try that with cable... I'll supply the pills to calm Ted down?
ftp1020

join:2007-01-30
Canada
Wow, Marx was right about capitalists seeking to become monopolists, and willfully concentrating ownership of the means of production ("the economy") into ever fewer hands.

Vote Tory!

jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
·ELECTRONICBOX

Re: Hands off our network, Bell tells CRTC

One must ask the question: What is **REALLY** going on at Bell ?

Perhaps their strategy is to fire in a gazillion directions at the same time to overwhelm the CRTC, hoping the George W Harper will intervene to free Bell from the CRTC completely before a vote of non confidence forces an election.
Name96

join:2008-03-28

Re: Hands off our network, Bell tells CRTC

It smells to me like Bell is worried about losing the wholesale service degradation issue at the CRTC and has opted to attack the CRTC's jurisdiction instead. This is a bit like playing chess and electing to club your opponent about the head with a baseball bat because he is getting close to putting you in checkmate.

I'd say the chances of Bell getting away with this are actually greater than the chances of them getting away with merely degrading wholesale service.
ftp1020

join:2007-01-30
Canada
·TekSavvy Solutions..

JF, the answer is easy enough. Just like everyone would like to be able to set their own salary, corporations would like to be able to merely announce their own profitability. With competition out of the way, that ability becomes that much easier.

Under friendly governments, oligopolies can morph into duopolies, and then into a single monopoly. The only thing preventing a cable-telco merger is government regulation. The best (but failed) example I can think of was Time-Warner-Netscape-AOL. That ugly monster managed to combine content production with content delivery, and threw in the browser and WWW portal for good measure. And the closest thing to a Canadian version was CTV-Thomson-Sympatico...

Stewy
Premium
join:2007-12-12
Kitchener, ON

said by jfmezei See Profile :

One must ask the question: What is **REALLY** going on at Bell ?
I've been trying to ask that myself.

If anyone believes that this is to help manage the network, they have to get their heads examined.

You don't need to see the virus to know that you have a cold. The same applies here, this is simply punishment for those doing it better than bell.

On top of that I'm willing to bet the house that in the very near future sympatico users are going to see a P2P improvement in their service.
liamoforange

join:2005-11-01
Hamilton, ON

So we are already living under what basically is a duopoly and now Bell wants to entrench its and the cable companies position into a true duopoly again. What we need instead is for the CRTC to force access to the cable companies networks for resale by third parties, and funding and subsidies so that 3rd parties can build networks and access points, so that Bell loses this position of power and domination.

Not like that will ever happen...
HeadSpinning

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

The problem here is that they didn't file with the CRTC - they filed a leave to appeal with the Federal Court to overturn the CRTC's decision.

They're basically saying that they don't agree with the CRTC so they're going above their heads.

If ya don't like the way the game is turning out, ask for a new rulebook I guess.

pegsys

@teksavvy.com

Re: Hands off our network, Bell tells CRTC

They want deregulation?
Let's give'em what they want...
Full deregulation across the whole spectrum of
telecommunications....Broadband internet,satelitte internet
and television,cellphone etc...
Let the big boys come in from the US, Europe and Asia come play with them...And let the games begin.
Bell,Rogers and Videotron have been the big fish in a small
pond for way too long,let's see how fast they will cry uncle
against the big sharks our regulations have protected them
from for so long....

Gokuu

join:2001-08-27

dreaming

With Canada's draconian regulations on foreign ownership combined with rediculous tax regime, nobody is gonna come to Canada - a small and insignificant marketplace.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that Bell and Rogers are both collusionists trying to screw everyone. I prefer living in the real world - too bad it sucks.

said by pegsys :

They want deregulation?
Let's give'em what they want...
Full deregulation across the whole spectrum of
telecommunications....Broadband internet,satelitte internet
and television,cellphone etc...
Let the big boys come in from the US, Europe and Asia come play with them...And let the games begin.
Bell,Rogers and Videotron have been the big fish in a small
pond for way too long,let's see how fast they will cry uncle
against the big sharks our regulations have protected them
from for so long....
cacruden

join:2008-03-18
Toronto, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..

Re: Hands off our network, Bell tells CRTC

said by pegsys :

They want deregulation?
Let's give'em what they want...
Full deregulation across the whole spectrum of
telecommunications....Broadband internet,satelitte internet
and television,cellphone etc...
Let the big boys come in from the US, Europe and Asia come play with them...And let the games begin.
Bell,Rogers and Videotron have been the big fish in a small
pond for way too long,let's see how fast they will cry uncle
against the big sharks our regulations have protected them
from for so long....
Well, I all for deregulating TV and letting Dish/DirectTV in to compete in Canada. Millions of Canadians have been harassed about pointing their dish at the wrong satellite.
justsometech

join:2003-05-08
h3h4h4
·Bell Sympatico

Re: Hands off our network, Bell tells CRTC

Well per WTO agreements, Canada should be a lot more open, not just on telecomm, but Banking and other industries, yet we continue to be so, for some good reason, others not so good.

And hey, if teksavvy is clamming up for legal reasons thats good, but still hiring a PR person to get a better version across to public/media would be nice as well

eots

join:2003-02-04

Re: Hands off our network, Bell tells CRTC

Hiring a PR person to represent the position of the ISP's is an excellent idea. You don't see any of the Bell exec's speaking to the media.

RobP

join:2008-03-30
Brantford, ON
We all saw this coming right?

What irks me the most is that the CRTC and the government haven't slapped bell down a few pegs. I guess this is the price we pay for having a Conservative government :S

Quake110

join:2003-12-20
Ottawa, ON
·Velcom


1 edit
Well, if Bell does succeeds to overturn the CRTC decision, the 3rd party ISPs will seriously need to look into a building some sort of consortium.

Even if it takes a long time to build, at the the end, they'll be free from Bell or Rogers' grip of power.
Riplin

join:2002-05-13
canada
I bet the 3rd party ISP's that thanked bell for the traffic shaping are kicking themselves in the ass now.

eots

join:2003-02-04
Michael Geist is a lawyer who fully understands what's at stake, so why doesn't he start a class action suit against Bell? This latest action by Bell to eliminate competition is the final straw.

RobP

join:2008-03-30
Brantford, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..

Re: Hands off our network, Bell tells CRTC

said by eots See Profile :

Michael Geist is a lawyer who fully understands what's at stake, so why doesn't he start a class action suit against Bell? This latest action by Bell to eliminate competition is the final straw.
Remember what happened to the Deathstar when they started to throw their weight around? Slapped, AND broken down into many little pieces. Time for the Beaver hunt to begin :P

mattp2182

join:2007-11-07
London, ON
I sent Mr. Geist a email asking him what the feasibility of a class action against the telco giants would be. Ill let you guys know if/when i get a response.

An Onymous

@teksavvy.com

This is what's on CRTC's website:

March 3, 2008 CRTC announces new rules for
wholesale telecommunications services...

The Commission will maintain the requirement for telephone companies to provide interconnection services to competitors. Interconnection services allow competitors to access telecommunications networks in order that their customers may call individuals who have a different service provider. The Commission will also continue to mandate the provision of wholesale services used to provide services that are in the public interest, such as 911 and message relay services.

As part of this proceeding, the Commission revised its definition of an essential service. To be considered essential, a facility, function or service must:

* be required by competitors to provide a retail telecommunications service,
* be controlled by a company that could use its market power to lessen or prevent competition, and
* provide a functionality that would not be practical or feasible for competitors to duplicate.
...

Backgrounder on wholesale telecommunications services
Wholesale services
...
Categories of wholesale services
a) Interconnection
Interconnection services allow competitors to access telecommunications networks in order that their customers may call individuals who have a different service provider. Their provision will continue to be mandated.

These services permit interconnection between:

* local networks,
* local and long-distance networks, and
* wireless and wireline networks.
Note: Underlines are mine.

I think this new CRTC framework still applies to Bell Canada (vs TSI). They'll need someone higher up to stand up to CRTC.
justsometech

join:2003-05-08
h3h4h4

Re: Hands off our network, Bell tells CRTC

The only thing i am suprised about is that i havent heard about teksavvy filing motions to stop bell...
NiGHTS

join:2008-03-23

This government has been such a disappointment. This is not a government to protect Canadian rights.

Think about what they have done:
-Quebec nationhood
-Many Canadian companies were taken over by foreign companies
-MDA soon taken over
-Income Trust scandal
-Bad tax policy. Every economist said income tax cuts work better than GST cut
-Not for Net Neutrality

I am ashamed I voted Conservative. Imagine a majority. Never again.
NiGHTS

join:2008-03-23

Bell really wants the Independents to go out of business quickly. Their moves have been blatantly monopolistic and right in the face of authority. They want that monopoly as quick as possible. Bell must think this is the time to do it while we have a government that doesn't give a damn about Canadians rights.

I am so upset about the Jim Prentice question period. Wake up Jimbo, Bell does not own the Internet! Conservatives have to go.

»www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/···gy/home/

See 17 replies to this post
TobiasFunke
Premium
join:2007-02-27
Toronto, ON

said by cacruden See Profile :

»www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008···ell.html
In its appeal, Bell said such regulation is no longer necessary now that there is enough competition in phone and internet markets. In home phones, Bell is competing with a number of major cable companies, not to mention Voice over Internet Protocol providers and cellphone carriers.
Wait, wait, wait... Sure, you can point to VOIP competition, but when you and your one competitor both have the means, inclination and incentive to degrade service for those VOIP competitors, how can you possibly make this argument with a straight face?

anonnotreally

@qc.ca
It's like Mulroney getting his hands caught in
the cookie jar, someone needs to catch some Telecom ministers with their hands held out too the big 3 in Canada's telecom industry.
Omr

join:2004-01-10
M1S-1B3

That is it, been a lifelong Liberal ... now my allegiance has ultimately shifted towards NDP. That Jim Prentice guy got owned, and what is up with the consumer taking it up with the ISP none-sense. I clearly am not a person Bell will listen to, the Bells and Rogers clearly showed me that they didn't want me as there customer (I know what I pay for, and every time they took away a feature and yet raised prices I knew I was being pushed off a cliff unwillingly). I find a service that is impeccable, that treated me as worthy client "VIP ", told the "TRUTH", compromised and communicated with it's client base, and only asked of me to pay my monthly and bring a couple of people on board. The cartel (Rogers and Bell in cahoots) slap me in the face again with there rhetoric.

Jim Prentice says we have a Robust internet, is he on crack? Bell is saying there hardware is congested, they are peeling back on there ability to deliver, and jacking up the prices. Also come on, when someone was on Sympatico (I'm a former Rogers customer) and was told they use excessive Bandwidth, they weren't told you congest our hardware ... now that they sold us on the idea of caps, they want the idea of throttling to also become entrenched ... piss off is all I have to say. They want to become the sole gatekeepers of the net in Canada ... I think it's time to let the American congolomerates loose in Canada, see what Bell/ Rogers do when they start facing companies with even bigger wallets.

I'm so dissappointed at this governments reaction to this issue. They're waiting to see this play itself out? Are you mad? The only thing that'll happen if this is played out is that Bell with it's lawyers and Laszlow's will squish the little guy. Damn it, who's Harper waiting for ... a call from Bush to tell him to react? I pay taxes for this guy to say we'll just watch it unfold? It's like he doesn't answer to the public but rather he looks like a Corporate lap dog.

Turbinator

join:2007-10-14
Mississauga, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..


1 edit
Seems very appropriate;



As long as they are in power, nothing will happen.
I can never bring myself to understand why people voted in our very own Bush of Canada.
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