nycityny
Premium
join:2005-08-09
New York, NY
 ·PHONE POWER
·VoicePulse
 ·RCN CABLE
·ViaTalk
| reply to NY Tel
Re: [ATT CV] Suspended because of no E-911
said by NY Tel  :AT&T is not going out of the VoIP business. The CallVantage Product is going to be re-released and changed under the aegis of the Project Lightspeed Product line. This "customer shedding" has been known to insiders for the past 18 months. I would think the "new" AT&T under Eddie Whiteacre has no plans to discontinue the service but merely morph it into something else. Semantics. From the standpoint of the consumer, they chose a VOIP company that appeared to be stronger and more stable than most. In the end, their service will be discontinued. |
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NY Tel
Premium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
·VOIPo
| reply to nycityny
said by nycityny :Another thing odd/funny about this - so many folks are worried about signing up with the "smaller" VOIP companies for fear they won't be around very long. Meantime, the "big" guy, AT&T, is the one VOIP company to actually throw in the towel and go out of business. Perhaps folks should not over think their decision in picking a VOIP company. They should just go with the one that has the services that best fits their needs and hope for the best. AT&T is not going out of the VoIP business. The CallVantage Product is going to be re-released and changed under the aegis of the Project Lightspeed Product line. This "customer shedding" has been known to insiders for the past 18 months.
I would think the "new" AT&T under Eddie Whiteacre has no plans to discontinue the service but merely morph it into something else. |
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nycityny
Premium
join:2005-08-09
New York, NY
·PHONE POWER
·VoicePulse
·RCN CABLE
·ViaTalk
| reply to djousma
Another thing odd/funny about this - so many folks are worried about signing up with the "smaller" VOIP companies for fear they won't be around very long. Meantime, the "big" guy, AT&T, is the one VOIP company to actually throw in the towel and go out of business. Perhaps folks should not over think their decision in picking a VOIP company. They should just go with the one that has the services that best fits their needs and hope for the best. |
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RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Longmont, CO
| reply to Lenagainster
said by Lenagainster :It is still hard for me to comprehend the amount of corporate greed that went in to the decision to screw all these CV customers because of the fear of a lawsuit from an unanswered 911 call when the TOS specifically releases ATT from any liability. It is a stupid decision that will backfire in the PR arena. I'm so surprised. Your comments are usually well thought out. Though perhaps I've been fooled all along.
It has nothing to do with corporate greed. It has much more to do with corporate responsibility -- to ensure that customers get what they expect to get, and to ensure that stockholders (including pension plans, as well as widows and orphans) don't find their assets declining in value due to irresponsible decisions by marketers trying to ring up a couple thousand $25/month deals ..... there's so much more at stake in AT&T Corp that the little VOIP unit should not put all of that in jeopardy. |
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NY Tel
Premium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
·VOIPo
| reply to Lenagainster
®
You may need to provide your address to the 911 dispatcher.
Your 911 call may be answered by a regional 911 center (used for wireless 911 calls) or other emergency response centers.
In order to use AT&T CallVantage at a different location other than your registered primary service address, you must provide AT&T with the new address. AT&T will confirm and validate that Alternative E-911 Service is available from the newly requested address. If Alternative E-911 is not available at the requested new location, you will not be able to use AT&T CallVantage at that address.
If you live in an area that does not have E-911 for traditional wireline phone service, you will continue to receive Basic 911 Service.
*If you have a traditional phone that does not plug into power. For example, cordless home phones require power to work. In some cases, large neighborhood power outages could cause phone line outage.
**The chart is provided for your convenience. AT&T does not make specific representations or warranties based on the statements in the chart, as AT&T cannot foresee every possible such combination of events.
How will I know what kind of 911 Service I have with AT&T CallVantage?
The type of 911 Service you receive with AT&T CallVantage is based on the combination of your phone number, your service address, and AT&T's network. See "911 Service Type Information" on Account Management & Settings page for your 911 service type.
Below you will find further explanations and details for the items in the above comparison chart.
There are some important differences with the way 911 service works compared to traditional phone service. These include:
Service Outages or Interruptions Prevent Alternative 911 and Alternative E-911 Calls Placed From Your AT&T CallVantage Phone
* Just as your regular cordless phone will not work today without power, your Telephone Adapter (TA) does not operate without power. As a result, you will be unable to make any type of 911 call from your AT&T CallVantage phone during an electrical power outage.
* Similarly, you will not be able to make any 911 calls from your AT&T CallVantage phone if your broadband service provider has a service outage, or if any other service disruptions keep you from being able to make an outbound call.
* If for any reason your AT&T CallVantage is temporarily interrupted, you may not be able to make any 911 calls.
FOR THESE REASONS, AT&T STRONGLY RECOMMENDS THAT YOU ALWAYS HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE MEANS OF ACCESSING TRADITIONAL WIRELINE 911 SERVICES FROM YOUR HOME.
We Need to Know the Physical Location of your AT&T CallVantage Phone for 911 to Function
* When you dial Alternative 911 using AT&T CallVantage, your call may be routed to a different dispatcher than that used for traditional wireline 911 calls. Calls dialed to Alternative 911 will be routed to a Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP) center or other PSAP or local or regional center designated for wireless services associated with the service address you provided when you signed up, or other backup emergency answering services. In some geographic areas, Alternative 911 calls may not be answered outside standard business hours.
* In order for Alternative 911 and Alternative E-911 to work properly, the registered 911 service address we have on file for you MUST correspond to the physical location of your AT&T CallVantage phone. This will enable us to accurately identify your emergency Public Safety Answering Point and correctly route your call.
* If you relocate your AT&T CallVantage phone on a temporary basis, such as taking your Telephone Adapter (TA) with you when you go to a vacation home, you MUST provide AT&T with the new address and we must be able to confirm 911 service availability for that address. When AT&T detects that you may have moved yourTA, we will ask you to confirm your address. Click here for more information on this procedure.
* You can update your physical Service Address online or by calling Customer Service at 1 (866) 596-8464, 8:00 AM ET - 9:00 PM ET Monday - Friday.
If you have Alternative 911…
When You Call 911 the First Information You Should Provide is your Location
* If you do need to dial 911 from your AT&T CallVantage phone, the first information you should provide the emergency operator is your location, name, and telephone number, as the Emergency Services PSAP personnel may NOT have this information available automatically. This occurs because your call may go to a general access line at the PSAP which is different from how traditional wireline 911 calls are handled by the PSAP.
* From time to time, due to network congestion, you may have a greater possibility of receiving a busy signal or experiencing unexpected and/or longer answering wait times when you dial 911 with AT&T CallVantage Service than with traditional wireline 911 calls.
If you have Alternative E-911…
* When you dial 911 with Alternative E-911 service, your call may be routed to the dispatcher used for traditional wireline E-911 calls and the dispatcher may automatically have access to your location, name, and telephone number.
Additional Important Differences When Dialing 911 from Your AT&T CallVantage Phone
* If you purchase your TA from a retailer, you may be able to make outbound calls immediately after installing your TA. However, provisioning of your Alternative 911 or Alternative E-911 service may take additional time to complete in which case any 911 calls dialed between installation of your TA and completion of 911 provisioning may not complete or may be forwarded to a non-public, backup emergency answering service.
* If you have Call Forwarding, Locate Me, Do Not Disturb, or other features programmed and in use at the time you dial a 911 call, if your call is interrupted the emergency dispatcher may not be able to call you back at the phone from which you dialed the call.
Important Note
* Please refer to the 911 Service section in the AT&T CallVantage Subscriber Agreement for important information on possible service limitations of the 911 Service, including the differences between the AT&T CallVantage 911 Service and traditional wireline 911 dialing. |
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Lenagainster
join:2005-01-07
Silver Spring, MD
·VoicePulse
 ·DIRECTV
·magicjack.com
| reply to djousma
I was wondering if anything was mentioned on the CallVantage website about terminating A911 customers. I found a statement that read "If you are an existing customer it is possible you may have Alternative 911 instead of E-911. To read information about your 911 Service as an existing customer, click here". When I clicked that link, it required me to sign in. Since I am no longer an ATTCV customer, couldn't do it. I wonder what it says. Could a CV customer go there and tell us what it says?
It is still hard for me to comprehend the amount of corporate greed that went in to the decision to screw all these CV customers because of the fear of a lawsuit from an unanswered 911 call when the TOS specifically releases ATT from any liability. It is a stupid decision that will backfire in the PR arena. |
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NY Tel
Premium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
·VOIPo
| reply to egcarter
said by egcarter :I supposed one could "move" to an E911 area and keep the service...  Yup. |
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egcarter
join:2004-10-10
Keaau, HI
| reply to djousma
Same here in Hawaii. All AT&T Callvantage customers will be suspended on 5/21 (incoming and 911, 800 or 411 outgoing calls), then totally dumped a month later.
I've been with Callvantage since soon after they introduced the service, and am P.O.'ed, but understand their position.
They are dismantling their "A911" infrastructure (probably to save money) and I'm sure their legal department doesn't want to get into a Vonage-type 911 situation.
I supposed one could "move" to an E911 area and keep the service... |
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NY Tel
Premium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
·VOIPo
| reply to epickles
said by epickles :You sound a little smarter than the average bear... Not sure why I didn't think about that  Ed. It's the New York Mentality, coupled with a few years working in product development for Verizon. Gives you a fresh perspective on how to do anything and get paid for it. |
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epickles
join:2005-02-18
Morrow, OH | reply to djousma
You sound a little smarter than the average bear... Not sure why I didn't think about that
Ed. |
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NY Tel
Premium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
·VOIPo
1 edit | reply to epickles
Ok this is little out of the ordinary but if you really don't care about 911 service, just select an address where your phone rate center is located. I have a friend in the Middle of Massachusetts who could not get it so we listed his address as his work cubicle right smack in the middle of downtown Boston. He got to keep his CV service because he selected a rate center where they DO provide e911 service.
It is a workaround but it can be done.
Libraries and gas stations are good targets in the middle of a big city.
Just remember that when you DO dial 911 for help, you will be out of luck because the police will show up at Arby's where the TA is registered....lol |
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RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Longmont, CO
| reply to epickles
one thing about AT&T that cannot be disputed is they have a very aggressive internal legal department. with all the assets of that company at risk with every transaction, they will ensure that they will not be on the losing end of a lawsuit charging negligence. smaller companies, and privately owned companies, and companies that don't have government contracts can play fast and loose if they wish. but AT&T will not do that, at least not for very long. they will provide service and lose money on a customer, but they won't provide service in conflict with some regulation somewhere. My guess is that the legacy TCG found a limited market for business services in that area, and is closing down their operations in that rate center because residential CLEC services (especially when all the revenue is internal) don't have the same margins. |
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epickles
join:2005-02-18
Morrow, OH
| reply to djousma
I'm a little late to jump into this conversation, but I may be able to add a little insight to this... Unfortunately I may be getting my pink slip also soon.
About 2 months ago I referred my neighbor to ATTCV... They called, went through the sign-up process, and was rejected by ATT. They told them that the E911 wasn't available. They then countered and said that "our next-door neighbor has it!". The ATT rep stated that "your neighbor wouldn't have it much longer."
I called ATT because it sounded rediculous, but they did tell me that they "fired" a bunch of customers because of this. However, the rep said that I may have slipped through the cracks. They stated that they fired a bunch of them back in December.
Evidently there is another wave coming... hopefully I won't be part of this wave because of all the VOIP providers I've tried (and used), I've been with ATTCV for around 3 years... it's the only one that is wife approved (and liked!) and I cringe at the thought of having to switch.
What happened to the first 75 years of phone service where you had to call the police/fire/ems using their FULL phone number??? What's it take to dial an extra 4 digits.. certainly not life or death. Clearly post the emergency phone number on or near the telephone... But then again there are a lot of idiots in the world today who like to sue.
Ed. |
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djousma
join:2000-04-18
Hudsonville, MI
clubs: 
| reply to Fisamo
I guess the handwriting is on the wall. If you go to their website as a new customer, you can no longer get a new number through ATTCV in my area, you can only transfer an existing number. Secondly, going through the new customer front-end, and put in my home address, the do not disqualify me for E911. Not sure why, but they must not want my business. At this point, I will leave anyway. I've already signed up for SunRocket after talking with a co-worker that has it. And it ends up(if the quality is good) much cheaper than ATTCV anyway. I was on the unlimited local/long distance plan for $24.95(was paying #29.95, until I accidentally found they had lowered the price, thanks for not telling me, btw), and the same plan on SR is $199 for 15 months(or about $13.25 a month).
We'll see how things work I guess.
Dave |
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Fisamo
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC
·VOIPo
·AT&T CallVantage
| reply to LakeMIGoldCoast
I hate to burst the conspiracy theory, but CallVantage and the POTS AT&T world are two completely different animals. Same company, yes (now that SBC and AT&T have merged), but they operate under different infrastructure. For example, CallVantage DID numbers are assigned from (or to, in the case of ported #'s) Teleport Communications Group (TCG), a subsidiary of pre-SBC AT&T (and post, of course). I don't know for certain what their E911 setup is like, but I would assume that it is somehow through TCG and not AT&T (e.g. ILEC) facilities.
I don't know what plans, if any, AT&T has to integrate operations between their residential VoIP business (CallVantage) and residential POTS service. One would think it would be a win-win for them to offer service at a lower price point to consumers that also has less overhead for them. With all of the junk fees they collect for POTS lines, the profit margin may still be better for POTS, but the maintenance of that network has to be pretty costly.
In any case, IMO, AT&T is making some short-sighted decisions with respect to CallVantage: how they handle E911 verification seems to limit customers to numbers in their rate center (unless they pay extra for a virtual number that would also ring into their 'main' line). Cutting off legacy customers who can't be made E911 compliant does nothing for good will with said customers, as at least two people in this thread have posted.
But in the end, it's their business, and if they keep approaching it with some of these attitudes, it won't last too long. |
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LakeMIGoldCoast
| reply to djousma
Dave, wait a minute, you're in HUDSONVILLE and AT&T says they can't provide E911 service there? That sounds like total BS to me - after all, AT&T is the incumbent phone company in Hudsonville! So if AT&T-CV is claiming they can't get E911 service from AT&T-Michigan, I'd say that something is seriously screwed up at AT&T. Is it possible that AT&T would prefer to see their customers on a higher-priced unlimited plan through their ILEC division as opposed to the lower-price CV division? Is it possible that AT&T is so mired in old-style traditional telco thinking that they can't do VoIP properly?
Anyway, there are several other VoIP companies that would be more than happy to have your business, everyone from your local cable company (Charter Communications) to most of the other companies discussed on this board. ViaTalk has their own forum here, you can go there to get opinions of their service, and VoicePulse also gets excellent reviews, and both of those companies offer excellent service (including E911) throughout Michigan. Personally I'd go with one of them rather than with any service offered by an incumbent cable or phone company. One thing that might be a determining factor for you is whether you make calls to Canada - some companies include Canada in their unlimited plans, while others do not. Another issue might be whether you have an "unlocked" device - some companies let you "bring your own device" while others do not.
Definitely check out VoicePulse and ViaTalk, I know folks who use both in Michigan and are quite happy with them, and I'm 99.99% positive that both would be able to offer you E911 service. I don't know if you're in Kent or Ottawa County but it makes no difference because both E911 centers are easily accessible if a VoIP company wants to get calls into them - which, apparently, AT&T's CV side does not! |
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djousma
join:2000-04-18
Hudsonville, MI
clubs:
| reply to christcorp
You went from ATT to Sunrocket? Please, pray tell, what made you do such a thing. Totally different types of providers. I can see going from ATT to Vonage, Packet8, VoicePulse, Nuvio, and a host of others. But based on other's experiences, that doesn't seem like the normal transition. Unless of course, the price is what was important to you. Switching between SR, with Viatalk, Zingotel, Lingo, BBTelsys, etc... seems common. Not cutting any of these providers down, nor saying that they aren't a good choice, just that those who normally choose ATT and similar providers, don't consider SunRocket as an equal alternative. Later... Mike...
Mike,
I would have gone to Vonage, but with the current state of their litigation, I thought I would avoid them for now. I have some buddies already on Sunrocket, and spoke highly of the service, so I thought I'd give it a try(and no, the did not get the referral fee). The price is right.... $199 for 15 months, 0 activation, and 0 on equipment. Comes out to about $13.25 / month. I was paying $25/month with ATTCV.
I guess time will tell.
Dave |
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RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Longmont, CO
| reply to christcorp
said by christcorp :said by djousma :..... I just switched to sunrocket. We'll see how that goes. Dave You went from ATT to Sunrocket? Hardcore BBR/VOIP players (like you and me) have a different persepective than others. To maintain a customer base as large as SR's, it's really likely that the vast majority of users just plug it in and it works. The problems come into play when personal contact is required -- and only a subset of those transactions is exposed to our reality of SR. Personally, I would not enter a building where only a far corner is on fire, but we all have different evaluation criteria. Hopefully, Dave will let us know how it goes for him. |
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ultravista1
join:2000-08-02
Las Vegas, NV | reply to christcorp
I'm in Las Vegas Nevada and having my service disconnected also. It appears AT&T doesn't have a E911 provider in the state.
Very irritating ...
I've been a custmer for 3 years also. Now off to Vonage. |
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christcorp
Premium
join:2001-05-21
Cheyenne, WY
·Bresnan Online
·VOIPo
| reply to djousma
said by djousma :..... I just switched to sunrocket. We'll see how that goes. Dave You went from ATT to Sunrocket? Please, pray tell, what made you do such a thing. Totally different types of providers. I can see going from ATT to Vonage, Packet8, VoicePulse, Nuvio, and a host of others. But based on other's experiences, that doesn't seem like the normal transition. Unless of course, the price is what was important to you. Switching between SR, with Viatalk, Zingotel, Lingo, BBTelsys, etc... seems common. Not cutting any of these providers down, nor saying that they aren't a good choice, just that those who normally choose ATT and similar providers, don't consider SunRocket as an equal alternative. Later... Mike... |
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