KoolMoe
Aw Man
Premium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD
clubs:
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Speakeasy
| reply to bogey780
Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business
It seems that often folks who criticize government-run services, whether state or federal, include the gross inefficiencies that seem to accompany such services.
Would you agree that private enterprise is generally more efficient?
If so, would there be room for private corporations to compete with government, right? They could offer services for a better price?
Do you think local government would undercut the private enterprise and just show more loss? Think the citizens would stand for that?
I dunno...
KM
--
Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential |
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AtlGuy
join:2000-10-17
Marietta, GA
| reply to bogey780
Who's to say those cities/towns have competition now? If the Bells won't roll their broadband services to communities, what are those communities supposed to do? Wait and hope and pray that the Bells service them?
If those communities want to service themself, then to hell with the companies that said they won't get enough of an ROI to serve them.
It seems as though you're fine with companies like you work for cherry picking, but at the same time not wanting the local gov'ts to serve themselves. |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | reply to bogey780
We all know that UTOPIA has destroyed any semblance of competative service/pricing within its bounds.
Right?
....right? |
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wtansill
Ncc1701
join:2000-10-10
Falls Church, VA
| reply to bogey780
said by bogey780  :Corporate accounting is a neat field. If you think corporations making more money are a bad thing then well....no way to win with you. The fact that corporations make money is not, de facto, a bad thing. What's bad is the focus on privatizing profits whilw socializing expenses. MallWart is a classic example of that mentality -- the are phenominally profitable (well, ok, not this quarter) but at the expense of many other social goods. Things like paying a living wage (many MallWart workers still require government subsidies because they can't live on what they are paid, working full time: »www.dsausa.org/lowwage/walmart/2···udy.html), destroying the ecosystem around them (not only are the small mom & pop stores driven out, read up on the number of suppliers that MallWart has chewed up and spit out. For example -- they nearly destroyed Vlassic, maker of pickles, as well as Huffy, manufacturers of bicycles:
»www.fastcompany.com/online/77/walmart.html)
MallWart, of course is a covenient target due to its sheet size, but the telecomm industry is by no mean innocent. For example -- Veizon chief Seidenberg had a base salary of 1.5 million and a boinus of 2.75 million in 2003. That's jumped to a base of 2.1 million and bonus of 4.1 million in 2005. An increase of 80% and 49%, respectively (source: »www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/···14a.htm_. I don't know the actual increase, but I'm willing to bet that VZ rank and file did not enjoy such an increase, and, while the stock has come back a bit this year, it's almost flatlined since 2003. So for mediocre performance at best, this guy nearly doubles his take? Please explain to me the logic or justice in this.
--
That which does not kill me merely prolongs the agony. |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | reply to AtlGuy
Let them get a private company to run it. If they're ding it with taxpayer funds to offset the loss of ROI then it's patently unfair. |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | reply to Maxo
All workmen and investors deserve to make a profit on the work and investing they do. Framing the debate as people or profit is in error. |
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dnabdaorb
@sbc.com | reply to DaBavarian
so what |
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ross
join:2000-08-16
1 edit | Re: This trolls stupid post...
said by dnabdaorb :
so what
Consider the source:
dnabdaorb(anon)
@sbc.com
another f**king teletroll, don't we have enough Telco cheerleaders already registered here..? |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | reply to bogey780
Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business
And whilst no private/public company wants to run it..? |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| reply to bogey780
said by bogey780 :All workmen and investors deserve to make a profit on the work and investing they do. I agree with your first statement. We all have a right to exchange goods and services in an effort to sustain ourselves and our families. This is nothing new. People have been working for a living since the dawn of man (sans slavery.)
said by bogey780 :Framing the debate as people or profit is in error. No it's not. If there is error in my statement that you should not profit at the expense of people then please explain to me what the problem is. Telling me it's in error doesn't mean more than me telling you a video game is bad. The statement alone is not an argument and has no logic.
--
"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter
»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad
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»maxolasersquad.com/network/ My DSL Network Guide
»myspace.com/mlsquad |
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dispatcher21
join:2004-01-22
united state
| reply to karlmarx
And who decides what a reasonable price is? The market does!! The corporations can charge whatever price they want to, it is up to the people to decide what they will pay or not. Example:If company A is charging $1,000.00 a month for broadband and 60% of the customers are paying it, guess what? The market has spoken and that is the reasonable price for it. If they charge the same price but only 3% of the customers pay it, then obviously company A has priced themselves out of the market and will adjust accordingly. Muni services are good as long as it is done correctly otherwise, there is no difference between muni services and corporations. |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| said by dispatcher21 :Muni services are good as long as it is done correctly otherwise, there is no difference between muni services and corporations. Everything can be bad. Muni is not within and of itself a night and shining armor. It has the potential to suck, if mismanaged, or be great. It depends on those tasked with running it. |
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dklann
join:2006-11-09
Kennesaw, GA
| reply to tsu9
I'm following the dialog and can see both sides of the issue. The problem with public tax money is you really get no say in how it's spent. What if you don't want the ISP that you're being taxed for? Sort of like schools - if you opt to send your kids to private school then good for you - but you still pay government school tax. The only way to solve this whole mess is to privatize and use competitive market forces and use a national sales tax vs. an income tax. If I want my garbage picked up then I should be able to pick my service provider rather than settle on the one who won the county contract or a have a government worker pick it up. It's a pipedream however - we can't take politicians out of the money we can only replace them with other politicians; we'll never take money out of politicians. If we can degregulate the phone and natural gas industry why can't we do so with others. In my opinion any program of regulation and private industry the government gets in tends to be worse after the fact (aviation, telecommunications, natural gas, etc...) |
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dklann
join:2006-11-09
Kennesaw, GA
| reply to karlmarx
I can't believe what I'm reading - eveyone has a right including a company to make a profit and to maximize that profit, so long as they do it legally. If you privatize services for a profitable product the costs go down not up. If the government restricts how much money a company or person makes is that capitalism or free enterprise? I think not. But what would be good is if we made it such that we made it better for companies to operate in our country vs. outsourcing customer service to India and Pakistan. |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| reply to dklann
said by dklann :The problem with public tax money is you really get no say in how it's spent. What if you don't want the ISP that you're being taxed for? I don't believe that towns should build their own ISP or shouldn't. I do believe the option should be made available to them. Government corruption is a problem within and of itself. |
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KoolMoe
Aw Man
Premium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
·Speakeasy
| reply to dklann
As I understand it, few - if any - muni ISPs are purely setup with tax monies. It's usually a bond issue, though if the ISP can't payoff the bonds in a set amount of time, taxpayers could be liable.
If that's true, it's not the same as public vs private schools and the associated tax situation - which was a good point regardless.
KM
--
Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | reply to DaBavarian
If it's not worth the profits gained in a particular area, broadband deployment will never come from the private sector, so what is your option? |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Maxo
Here's the problem you are overlooking:
I for one agree that the shift from public to private (ergo privatization) is bad in most ways (roads, healthcare, utilities...) but what happens when the municipality decides to privatize the deal years later?
Township and local governing officials move on or are voted out. Eventually, some sleazy-former-realtor will assume power and want to pocket funds to "buddy" that happens to run some tech firm that can "do a better job" than the current, fiscally bloated, red-tape, municipal nightmare (or whatever they will label it).
Your taxes will have been raised significantly higher than now, to compensate for the underpaid, upgrade-needed staff and hardware. (the subscription rates rise for protection, software and contracts...).
Add that to the already over-taxed base with school and property-re-assessments...
Then you will have a problem.
Wait! Am I in the right discussion? |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to DaBavarian
said by DaBavarian :Followed by high taxes. WRONG! I will put money on that 95% of the population will NOT see any tax increase. More like REDUCED taxes. The 5% that may get a tax increase. Well Bill Gates can afford it. I have no pity for them. One less vacation house. Too fricking bad.
Funny how some peole care more about the people that make substantially more than them( and those rich people don't give a rats behind about them ) than those less fortunate.
If you are in the bottom of that top 5% that means you make at least $175K a year which is 5 times what the average American makes. If you are worried about higher taxes make less money. Quit your job and go work for wal-mart. Otherwise STFU. |
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pabster
join:2001-12-09
Waterloo, IA
 ·Mediacom
| You, sir, are an idiot.
High taxes are bad news whether your gross income is $12,000 per year or $1.2 million per year.
The era of San Francisco liberal Democrat kookery is upon us. I just wonder how long it will take the sheeple to realize they've been bamboozled. |
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