GOLFnSUN
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join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
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Re: Members of "Handsoff.org"
I will. I think they are doing a great job.
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
| Yeah I seen how the no regulation business is. I am currently in Argentina where there is almost no regulation what so ever. There is Fibre Telecom who offer for 35 dollars per month (Dollars not pesos) 512K speeds.
Regulations exist for a reason but at the same time too much regulation is bad.
When it comes to regulation people only think what will benefit them, consider it like a one way business decision where you only have our way or the highway.
Companies should follow laws, there is a limit to how much profit they can actually take from consumers. Without it we would be paying 150 dollars for a spoon. Not saying that every business will do that but in a world where money talks that's what most likely will happen.
From what I have seen here, I simply will have to disagree with deregulation of the internet. |
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footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| said by Michieru2  :Companies should follow laws, there is a limit to how much profit they can actually take from consumers. Without it we would be paying 150 dollars for a spoon. Not saying that every business will do that but in a world where money talks that's what most likely will happen. When you hear people talk about 'free markets', this is what they're talking about. If spoons were 150 dollars, I would open a spoon making business and sell mine for 75 dollars. I'd kill the other businesses off. If they have deep enough pockets they'll weather the storm and lower their prices as well. I'll respond by lowering mine. Rinse and repeat until the price of spoons becomes whatever the market will bear. Three things can stop this from happening:
1) government interference
2) skullduggery from existing spoon manufacturers keeping others out of the business
3) price of entry into the spoon business prohibitive
Government can stop problems #2 and #3 but if they go too far they become problem #1. Unless your market is in near anarchy, calling for more government regulation is usually a really bad idea.
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What's certain about Darwinism is that it would take less time for (1) a single-celled organism to evolve into a human being through mutation and natural selection than for (2) Darwinists to admit they have no proof of (1) - Ann Coulter |
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bamabrad
join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL | You forgot conspiracy of incumbents. |
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footballdude
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join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| said by bamabrad :You forgot conspiracy of incumbents. That would fall under problem number 2. |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
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join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
| reply to footballdude
Yes but isn't there a hole in your free markets theory? You don't have to compete with the other business simply to gain profit, you introduce your set of spoons at the same price and sign a deal with the business partner and actually raise prices depending on each other to gain profits & market share.
So in general free market can go both way's good or bad. Even when the three problems you put that simply locks anyone else from entering the market. But that does not generally mean that prices will go lower simply because there is more competitors. That's basically taking a risk saying that the next competitor will offer lower rates than other's that when in real world experiences I have seen new competitors come and offer almost exactly the same rates and are only a few cents or exact duplicates as others.
The business makes it another option but it does not bring down prices of the actual product. There is once in a few year's you see things change. For example MetroPCS that's a highly competitive business and it's rapidly expanding because they allow users to talk as much as they want. Unlike other providers who go with minute plans.
Free market to me just means everyone is allowed to do as they wish, but at the same time things could skyrocket or could sink. There is no system of check and balances in that system. If there was then it would make a lot more sense to me. |
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footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| said by Michieru2 :Yes but isn't there a hole in your free markets theory? You don't have to compete with the other business simply to gain profit, you introduce your set of spoons at the same price and sign a deal with the business partner and actually raise prices depending on each other to gain profits & market share. Eventually, someone will be greedy enough to try to expand their market share (or get into the business in the first place and undercut the competition). As long as the price of entry into the industry isn't too high, there will always be someone trying to steal your customers.
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What's certain about Darwinism is that it would take less time for (1) a single-celled organism to evolve into a human being through mutation and natural selection than for (2) Darwinists to admit they have no proof of (1) - Ann Coulter |
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EGeezer
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| reply to footballdude
said by footballdude :I would open a spoon making business and sell mine for 75 dollars. I'd kill the other businesses off.
I respectfully disagree - a startup will not have the resources of the companies who have been retaining profits from the $150 spoon. Historically, market incumbents use the money to thwart entry through legal actions, delays, access to politicians through their lobbyists, or engage in temporary price cutting to drain the resources of the startup. We've seen lots of that from the telecom and cable industries as they delay implementation of local services by small companies or communities through lawsuits and legal appeals, lobby for protective legislation, then lobby for selective deregulation.
If they have deep enough pockets they'll weather the storm and lower their prices as well. I'll respond by lowering mine.
Conversely, you will need deeper pockets than the big guys to weather the storm. Again, startups don't have the resources of established companies.
Three things can stop this from happening:
1) government interference
2) skullduggery from existing spoon manufacturers keeping others out of the business
3) price of entry into the spoon business prohibitive
Government can stop problems #2 and #3 but if they go too far they become problem #1. Unless your market is in near anarchy, calling for more government regulation is usually a really bad idea.
The lobbyists who cry for less "government interference" also cry for regulations and subsidies that favor their companies and industries.
The consolidation strategy has become clear in this and other industries. The goal of the telecoms is not to foster a monopoly, but rather an oligopoly. An oligopoly provides the ability to limit competition and maximise profits by implicit cooperation while staying under the radar screen of regulators who look for monopolies. (also see The Wikipedia version.
At this point, the telecom industry is very near oligopoly, and is working to clean out, hog tie or buy up the remaining smaller companies who would threaten the planned oligopolistic structure and pricing model.
Whether it's big government, big business or big labor, domination by any of these diminishes the freedom of entry and competition in markets to favor whichever of these entities is in control.
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