Cleric4
join:2002-03-31
00000
| reply to djrobx
Re: never pay full price for high speed again!!!
Everyone gets some sort of promo from the start, or at least they should. The promo lasts for "X" amount of time and it ends.
What could be more fair than that?
This is silly but I'm reminded of the movie "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory" when Mr. Wonka is giving out Everlasting Gobstoppers (sp?). Everyone got one and only one. |
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CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12
| reply to fonzbear2000
said by fonzbear2000  :said by CableTool :I said the isp bouncing is the reason for contracts and binding promos and discounts for bundled products as opposed to lower rates for stand alone products. here, i have comcast and qwest to bounce back and forth between, NEITHER of which require a contract I never said all companies have contracts either? geesh. I stated people grabbing promos and leaving are one of the reasons companies DO have contracts.
I think its great Comcast has never had contracts. If they ever do institute them though everyone can send Fonzbear a thank you card. 
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dr_shmass
join:2004-10-15
Joliet, IL | reply to fonzbear2000
So it's ok for Comcast to try to make the most profit they can...but not for a comsumer to try to get the best price they can for a service? |
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CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12
| I never said anything for or against it. I stated the obvious workarounds companies have put in place that everyone bitches about to try and curb the habit.
Contracts.
Floating promos.
Bundled discounts.
Whatever works for whomever. Who cares. But all consumer actions and habits affect all other consumers. Lets not be naive.
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magusat999
join:2005-07-08
Oakland, CA
| reply to CableTool
said by CableTool :said by djrobx : quote:
SO HERES TO YOU FONZBEAR!!!
Working the system and causing it to work eveyone else! HATS OFF!
Fonzbear wasn't the one who came up with the ridiculous idea of actively encouraging churn by giving good deals to "new customers" only. There are so many ways providers can fix the "churn" and "re-churn" problem if they actually felt it was a problem. 1) DO NOT allow "new cusotmer" promotions for customers that have already had them. We have database technology, it shouldn't be that hard to identify people "gaming the system" so to speak. 2) How about a better approach. How about ENCOURAGING LOYAL CUSTOMERS TO STAY by offering the same fair pricing to both new and old customers alike! Why are "new customers" so much more important than the existing ones, anyway? Your right. They should offer existing customers promos for 26.00 a month for 16 months. That is a BRILLIANT business model!! Way to stay competitive and grow the business. They do not allow new customers promos if they have already had them UNLESS a certain amount of time has gone by. So you dont want customers to get a promo more then once but you also want all customers to be able to get promos and discounts, existing or new? Thats a neat trick. They encourage customers to stay by offering a good product at a good price. I could say a Lexus is way overpriced but I still want one. Its worth what the public will pay. And if I want one thats the price it is. Read my post again, they try to fix churn by implementing contracts and stretch out the promos. That is how they "fix" churn. But I like your world where there are no promos. There are no introductory rates to try out products or lower your risk. Or the complete opposite suggestion that everyone gets promos. New and old. Nah.. that shouldnt kill the bottom line. NEW customer are more important because if there wasnt NEW customers or ways to get new customers then you wouldnt have a business anymore. ( are you serious?) What a ridiculous counter-arguement. The problem with these pricing "schemes" is that these products and services are way over-priced, everyone knows it - but people don't want to say it because psycho-hypocrites start calling them "poor" or cheap. So-called promotional pricing is conceived as some sort of "deal", but we all know that that's a crock. These companies have to be making money - otherwise the majority of thier customers wouldn't be paying low prices. Let's not pretend that once people become subscribers, money just "flows" out of thier bank account and into the ISP's coffers. I know it isn't that way for me. I spent 14 years with AOL / AOL Broadband and they never saw an extra cent beyond my subscription fee the whole time. That's because as an EXISTING CUSTOMER I felt like a second class citizen. If AOL had some enticing offers AFTER I SUBSCRIBED they might have made more money from me. Existing customers are more important than new customers when a business is trying to exist - when they are just putting on makeup to whore out to the highest bidder (American corporate common practice) then the "most important customer" is the new customer, because it's quantity, not quality that counts.
It would be nice if companies would stop ripping off thier customer base by giving them less for more, overpricing, gouging people who have no alternatives, pricing based on desire instead of value... but why do that when there is always a fresh new customer base, ready to get clipped... willingly. |
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CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12
| Broadband mb for mb is the same if not CHEAPER then DSL. Nobody is getting GOUGED. Each year there has been a speed increase with no extra cost and there is no sign of that stopping. If you are paying the same NOW at 8mb/768 as you were at 6/384 how is that being GOUGED.
Its a good product for a fair price.
If you want to download movies and porn and game 24/7 and counterstrike your life away and download music faster then you did 5 years ago... hell, one year ago, there is a good chance it will cost you a few bucks.
As far as value, Id like to see HSI for 10.00 a month but that isnt realistic is it? Its market priced.
You and djrobx go start your own company. Focus on giving price cuts and breaks to your existing customers and do nothing to make an attractive offer to new customers.
Meanwhile while you and your 100 customers are happy and your business slowly ( or quickly) goes bankrupt while prices for everything else around you rise and your prices remain the same or LOWERED Ill be over here growing my business, gaining new customers, satisfying and delivering what my existing customers paid for and taking my profits to grow my business, my field and the technology in their homes.
See ya on the other side.
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Daddio1949
join:2000-12-13
Rockville, MD
| I do think your cost model holds for the cable industry. I doubt that Comcast or any other cable company has little, if any, extra cost for each additional internet subscriber. How many extra people do they hire for an additional internet subscriber, for additional 100 internet subscriber? They hire no additional people. Do they change there equipment for the additional internet subscribers? I doubt it. I bet what they charge each subscriber is almost entirely all profit.
The only reason they are giving faster speeds is because they do not want to complete on price. The faster speeds do not increase their costs. By the way the competition on speed is avowed policy by Comcast. Several times in the last year the CEO of Comcast has proclaimed that they will compete on speed, not price. |
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CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12
| said by Daddio1949 :I do think your cost model holds for the cable industry. I doubt that Comcast or any other cable company has little, if any, extra cost for each additional internet subscriber. How many extra people do they hire for an additional internet subscriber, for additional 100 internet subscriber? They hire no additional people. Do they change there equipment for the additional internet subscribers? I doubt it. I bet what they charge each subscriber is almost entirely all profit. The equipment, the install, the billing, everything costs something at some level. I dont think I, or anyone in this thread, ever argued that new customers cost the company money.
But really, do you think a company with a plant that can handle 1000 customers but only has 200 customers has the same expense as a plant that can handle 1000 customers but has 890 customers?
said by Daddio1949 :The only reason they are giving faster speeds is because they do not want to complete on price. The faster speeds do not increase their costs. By the way the competition on speed is avowed policy by Comcast. Several times in the last year the CEO of Comcast has proclaimed that they will compete on speed, not price. Ive never said otherwise. Actually, that was MY point. They will NOT lower the price because it is the market value. They WILL increase the speed. Youve made my point for me. ( or restated it to me as I stated it in this thread) So again, competition will not bring Comcast to lower their prices. They will increase value.
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
 ·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to Daddio1949
said by Daddio1949 :The only reason they are giving faster speeds is because they do not want to complete on price. As with cars, HSI splits between people who will pay a premium for speed, and people who would rather take economy over "speed at any price".
Cable and DSL prices are being established by what the market will bear. This only becomes detrimental in places where one has no choice between cable and DSL. Where there is only cable, people who would rather pay $15 per month for adequate surfing and email speeds are stuck choosing between dial-up and premium priced cable. Where there is only DSL, people who would willingly pay $55, and up, for the fastest speeds are stuck with upper speeds substantially lower than they want, and are willing to pay for.
So much for cable prices being the result of "monopoly".
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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jagged
join:2003-07-01
Boynton Beach, FL
| reply to Alphaotoko9
said by Alphaotoko9 :said by fonzbear2000 :said by b1gdr3 :scams like this are the reason Comcast won't lower rates it doesn't surprise me to see you complaining about things like this b1gdr3-this is not a scam-it's completely legitimate Dude thats not legitimate at all im almost certin that there has to be a law agenst it. Its playing the system, maby legaly is ok, but moraly i dont think so. Has to be or there is a law?
So then if "maby" legaly is ok doesn't mean it's not just because you think "moraly" it's not
You don't shop at Walmart to get rock bottom, unrealistic prices on products you'd have to otherwise spend normal retail prices on!?! No difference here
Besides Comcast's service is pretty bad in some areas and definitely not deserving of whatever normal market price there is for HSI |
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jagged
join:2003-07-01
Boynton Beach, FL
| reply to CableTool
said by CableTool :High prices are a result of a good product. really!?! sleep much in business class? |
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CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12
| said by jagged :said by CableTool :High prices are a result of a good product. really!?! sleep much in business class? Premium Product = Premium price.
Did you even take business class?
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jagged
join:2003-07-01
Boynton Beach, FL
| said by CableTool :said by jagged :said by CableTool :High prices are a result of a good product. really!?! sleep much in business class? Premium Product = Premium price. Did you even take business class? Yep, passed it with an A without a book. Supply and demand is what drives prices, and competition something which Comcast doesn't have a lot of.
But seeing your name I'm no surprised they hired you as BBR Comcast head cheerleader
Many people will argue HSI is hardly good product, me included - on speed, quality, and customer support. |
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CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12
| Thats a great opinion. 
In areas where Comcast has competition their prices are the same as every other area. They will raise speeds, not lower price.
It has been stated time and again by Comcast that they will not compete on price because they believe they are charging what their product is worth. And mb for mb they are dead on when comparing to DSL speeds and prices. Its a market value.
They provide a superior product, and its cost reflects that. Just as a caddy cant be picked up for 20K. Id rather drive a caddy then a honda anyday. They arent the same car. It isnt supply and demand. One is better.
Many people would argue HSI isnt a good product? Would any of those be in the 8 million Cocmast customers that use it everyday?
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Daddio1949
join:2000-12-13
Rockville, MD
| reply to CableTool
The equipment, the install, the billing, everything costs something at some level. I dont think I, or anyone in this thread, ever argued that new customers cost the company money.
But really, do you think a company with a plant that can handle 1000 customers but only has 200 customers has the same expense as a plant that can handle 1000 customers but has 890 customers? What equipment do they install? I installed my modem and router. As far as I'm concerned the cable companies covered their costs with cable TV; the internet is all profit. Let's face it the Cable companies were profitable before high speed internet and high speed internet just adds to the bottom line. High speed internet is the biggest cash-cow there is.
Cable and DSL prices are being established by what the market will bear. This only becomes detrimental in places where one has no choice between cable and DSL. Where there is only cable, people who would rather pay $15 per month for adequate surfing and email speeds are stuck choosing between dial-up and premium priced cable. Where there is only DSL, people who would willingly pay $55, and up, for the fastest speeds are stuck with upper speeds substantially lower than they want, and are willing to pay for. So as long as you have two providers, the competition becomes fierce. If there was real competition, then they would compete on price, not this competing of speed. As I said before I doubt that the extra cost of doubling the speed to little to nil. |
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to jagged
said by jagged :Supply and demand is what drives prices, and competition something which Comcast doesn't have a lot of. Absolutely. In areas where cable and DSL coexist, people who want economy prices go with DSL. People willing to pay premium prices for speed go with cable. Supply and demand. Just as you say.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
Murfreesboro, TN
·AT&T Southeast
 ·Vonage
 ·Cingular Wireless
·AT&T CallVantage
| said by NormanS :In areas where cable and DSL coexist, people who want economy prices go with DSL. People willing to pay premium prices for speed go with cable. Supply and demand. Just as you say. Another factor driving market forces can be reliability. I pay more for my 1536/384 kbps Covad DSL service than I do for my 6600/384 kbps Comcast service, but the 99.999999% uptime and the ability to legally operate a mail server on it is what I am paying for. Price is not always the driving force.
The primary reason I still have Comcast service is just in case BellSouth decides it needs to use my leased wire pair for a BellSouth Customer and arbitrarily disconnects me (again). In that case, having an unreliable connection beats having no connection until Covad can arrange for a new leased BellSouth wire pair.
Not having to deal with BellSouth is the primary reason I first tried Comcast, and that in itself can be a major market force factor.
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History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Test your firewall.
Smell the flowers. |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by NetFixer :The primary reason I still have Comcast service is just in case BellSouth decides it needs to use my leased wire pair for a BellSouth Customer and arbitrarily disconnects me (again). I know exactly what happened. A technician in the field was assigned a cable pair that was no good. He looked for another one and lo and behold he found one with no dial tone, bingo a spare pair. |
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Morty
Premium
join:2004-09-18
| reply to Daddio1949
said by Daddio1949 :I signed up for their promotions, ordered high speed internet, and submitted for the rebates. I don't think taking advantage of these promotions is fraud. Those who took advantage of the promotion do subscribe to high speed internet, and the individual promotions do not prohibit the multiple rebate-dipping. There is no deception or trickery involved. Consequently, no fraud is involved. Is it fraud when a company misprices a product and you purchase it? You did not trick the company in this case when the seller does not monitor its price. If an ISP fails to monitor its rebate promotions, then it is not my fault. fraud (frôd)
n.
1. A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
2. A piece of trickery; a trick.
3.
1. One that defrauds; a cheat.
2. One who assumes a false pose; an impostor.
The idea behind the promotion is for New Subscribers only. It is understandable if you are switching service providers perhaps once, due to a problem with a previous service from another company (right, it's a free market). However, if you are obtaining a promotion that is designed for New Customers only (people who have not have Comcast within at least the past 24 months) or you are purposely switching back and forth between companies for the sole purpose to obtain promotions -- is fraud, or in the very least, by accepting a promotion that is listed for new comcast subscribers only is conspiracy to commit fraud.
Is it jail time or legal actions? No.
Is it wrong, yes.
Does it affect the price of service offered to existing customers? Yes.
This all falls under the first definition "A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.". By canceling your service with the intention of restarting your service 6 months later is deception, as you are posing to Comcast as a New Subscriber when restarting your service. Clearly (given the intent of this thread -- "Never pay full price for High Speed again!!!") the deception is used to unfairly gain a discounted rate... a rate that would not be offered to you if you stayed with Comcast as an existing customer those 6 months. |
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Daddio1949
join:2000-12-13
Rockville, MD
| The idea behind the promotion is for New Subscribers only. It is understandable if you are switching service providers perhaps once, due to a problem with a previous service from another company (right, it's a free market). However, if you are obtaining a promotion that is designed for New Customers only (people who have not have Comcast within at least the past 24 months) or you are purposely switching back and forth between companies for the sole purpose to obtain promotions -- is fraud, or in the very least, by accepting a promotion that is listed for new comcast subscribers only is conspiracy to commit fraud.
Is it jail time or legal actions? No.
Is it wrong, yes.
Does it affect the price of service offered to existing customers? Yes.
This all falls under the first definition "A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.". By canceling your service with the intention of restarting your service 6 months later is deception, as you are posing to Comcast as a New Subscriber when restarting your service. Clearly (given the intent of this thread -- "Never pay full price for High Speed again!!!") the deception is used to unfairly gain a discounted rate... a rate that would not be offered to you if you stayed with Comcast as an existing customer those 6 months.
There is no deception going on here when you switch internet providers. If the internet provider's rules, for example, declares you a new subscriber after 60 or 90 days, and you return to the internet provider after their time limit, there is no deception going. We are playing the game according to the rules of the internet provider.
Please explain
where the deception is?
Where do you get the 24 months criterion from?
Are you making up the rules as you go along?
Do you own stock in Comcast?
Is this wrong? No and hell no. I believe that Comcast declares you a new customer after a couple on months. After those few months are up if Comcast considers me a new customer, then so be it.
Does it affect the price of service offered to existing customers? No. I already answered this question; high speed internet is a cash-cow for Comcast.. They make a profit off new customers and make an even larger profit off existing customers. They are virtually in monopoly position for high speed internet for many. Don't tell me that Comcast and Verizon are fierce competitor's when they only compete on the speed of the internet and not price.
I have browsed the forums here and most people do not switch between dsl and cable for various reasons, e.g. problems in installation and the hassle. Consequently, it is not even worth Comcast's effort to monitor such behavior. |
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