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critofur
join:2003-01-15
Columbus, OH
1 edit | reply to fiberguy
Re: Im Broke
Please stop incorrectly refering to copyright infringment as theft  , it is not theft, it is copyright infrignment, plain and simple. You don't have to twist any logic, rationalize, or anything to get that straight. It is what it is and is not what it is not.
To be theft, after something is stolen it has to no longer be in posession of whoever previously posessed it, otherwise, it's not theft.
Get a dictionary?  | |
SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| reply to fiberguy
Re: Im Broke
said by fiberguy  :Look, I can stomach people sharing and downloading the movies when the thing has been released to video.. and even then I have a moral issue with that - I dont' take which doesn't belong to me especially when I know someone is selling and asking a price for it. Yeah. That's out and out bootlegging, which is what I consider true piracy. No way to justify making money off of somebody's work without just compensation.
said by fiberguy :This movie isn't even released or intended to be in the hands of the public yet. To take it at this time has NO excuse and YOU KNOW IT! That would depend on how it got out. If we're talking about some cheap camcorder recording then I don't see what the fuss is about. That's worse quality than taping songs off the radio.
Now if we are talking digital copies then it would depend on how it got out. Somebody steal a pressing from the studio? Copied a theater reel? Maybe it was "leaked" by the company (These things do happen, and while we're on that subject I would like to know what the studio's reaction is to what's happening). If we're talking about somebody actually taking a reel then yeah that's not right.
said by fiberguy :I don't buy into the try it before you buy it ESPECIALLY right now becuase it's NOT AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE! It's available to buy as a service... a viewing ONLY! But you do pay money for that viewing. We are still talking about a pre-recorded product that is being released to the public. Not a true performance. Sure the format is at a theater where a mess of people watch at once, but in the end you are still paying to view a pre-recorded product. In theory you do that when you buy a DVD. Only difference is you bought (for a higher price) a license to view the film multiple times at multiple locations. In that light try before you buy still holds water.
If you are "okay" with people sharing music and movies that can be bought at the store how much of a difference are we seeing here? You are still buying something, even if it's a ticket for a single viewing.
said by fiberguy :You look at the movie producers as doing well despite the amount of p2p.. I look at the producers loosing money because of the p2p a*sholes. I want to know what movies have tanked because of P2P. I am talking about movies that were well received, but box office sales were much lower while downloading was extremely high.
said by fiberguy :I've liked a movie so much in the past that I would pay to see it a few times. So, I guess in today's world it should only need to be paid to view once? Hell, in some people's thinking it shouldn't even be paid to be viewd at all! I'll pay twice for a good movie too. I am all for supporting the movies you love. I am not the person you hear online that complains about going to the movies so much they boycott them. I will, however, be selective on where I put my money. Tickets are a lot higher than they used to be, and that puts a damper on my desire to go the movies more than I would like.
said by fiberguy :So, I guess that people that have stolen this particular movie, and it has been stolen at this point, will go rush to the theater to see it on the big screen? No way! Don't presume the actions of people you don't know. I can say with confidence that all those download-and-never-pay people you read in posts like these are in the major minority. This isn't the first example of a highly shared/bootlegged product ending up a top seller.
said by fiberguy :""The fact that the movie is the most downloaded AND is breaking box office records tells me that P2P either has little bearing on actual sales or can actually help box office sales."" SPIN... pure spin! You have NO scientific study to justify your thinking here... It's ALL speculation driven by your personal view. The results speak for themselves. Pirates II (I won't type the entire movie title) made over $300 million in two weeks (over $400 million internationally). It broke the all-time record for the highest opening weekend and opening day gross, and highest grossing sales in 2006 (that the highest grossing of all movies in 2006... in just two weeks). It is also the fastest to make $300 million of any movie ever.
It's hard not to look at these numbers and say P2P doesn't affect sales. Not so much spin as it is empirical data.
said by fiberguy :...the key here is that the movie is still in theaters and thieves made it available the to public.. it's not even under the home viewing protection clause at this point. How can you justify this? Can't argue too much here on the grounds you address. However in looking at fair use (or rather what is deemed copyright infringement) I don't see much on grounds that go against that.
said by fiberguy :Further, the legal owners of this intellectual property does not want a try it before you buy it scene... what they do want you to see is a preview... that's it! And there have been scores of disappointments when you trust the "spin" of the preview, and the movie turns out to be much less than the sum of the minutes put into that preview. I see P2P to be the potential as the great equalizer in these events. Are people downloading and not going to the theater, EVEN if they liked the movie and would have seen it in the theater? Yeah, no doubt. However in the end Buena Vista is raking in on some obscene money right now, and that's in spite of the rampant trading.
BTW I don't download movies. I can't justify the time spent just to look at a 19" computer screen rendition of a movie I am curious about. Do I get burned at the box office for forking over hard earned cash for a crap movie? Yeah I do. This is why I somewhat endorse file trading of movies. I don't completely agree with it, as you make some good points. Just in the end if I have to make an ultimate judgement call over the whole issue (regardless of individual situations) I would defer to sharing. | |
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to SRFireside
Hmmm. Can't say I agree with your thinking there.
No.. first run movie theft? this is out and out theft! It's not even being released for this purpose.
No, it doesn't mean a damn thing other than people will continue to be thieves and thugs. Who are you? Robin hood?
Look, I can stomach people sharing and downloading the movies when the thing has been released to video.. and even then I have a moral issue with that - I dont' take which doesn't belong to me especially when I know someone is selling and asking a price for it.
This movie isn't even released or intended to be in the hands of the public yet. To take it at this time has NO excuse and YOU KNOW IT!
I don't buy into the try it before you buy it ESPECIALLY right now becuase it's NOT AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE! It's available to buy as a service... a viewing ONLY! You want to try it? Watch the previews or in this case, see the first one... If the previews don't sell you then wait for it to come out as a cheaper buy option.
You look at the movie producers as doing well despite the amount of p2p.. I look at the producers loosing money because of the p2p a*sholes.
I've liked a movie so much in the past that I would pay to see it a few times. So, I guess in today's world it should only need to be paid to view once? Hell, in some people's thinking it shouldn't even be paid to be viewd at all!
So, I guess that people that have stolen this particular movie, and it has been stolen at this point, will go rush to the theater to see it on the big screen? No way! These are thives.. I hope people like this get caught.. I hope the RIAA cleans their clocks in court, and I hope these people's lives are miserable for years because of it.
This, no matter how you spin it, is theft... through and through.
""The fact that the movie is the most downloaded AND is breaking box office records tells me that P2P either has little bearing on actual sales or can actually help box office sales.""
SPIN... pure spin! You have NO scientific study to justify your thinking here... It's ALL speculation driven by your personal view.
Sorry to come off so strong to you, but the key here is that the movie is still in theaters and thieves made it available the to public.. it's not even under the home viewing protection clause at this point. How can you justify this? Further, the legal owners of this intellectual property does not want a try it before you buy it scene... what they do want you to see is a preview... that's it!
You're wrong! wrong! wrong! And not even Karl can spin this any way to make it right! | |
SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy :By the way to the others... justifying piracy is one thing when the movie is out in the hands of the public.. but this movie is still only in theaters. NO justification to pirate. We're back to the try before you buy model here, FG. People would rather know if they are going to like the movie before plunking out $8 to see it (or buy it on DVD later on). The fact that the movie is the most downloaded AND is breaking box office records tells me that P2P either has little bearing on actual sales or can actually help box office sales. | |
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