tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | reply to pnh102
Re: Bad Idea in So Many Ways
Allow me to paraphrase:
"There are just so many examples of [companies] at all levels screwing things up so badly. Do you really want those same [companies] running these networks?"
It's bad, either way. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| said by tsu9  :"There are just so many examples of [companies] at all levels screwing things up so badly. Do you really want those same [companies] running these networks?" It's bad, either way. No, it isn't. When a government screws up, the citizens, whether they like it or not, are required to clean up the mess, which usually requires higher taxes for that purpose, and even that operation is just as inefficient and wasteful as the original screwup was to begin with.
At least when a private company screws up, the only people affected are investors who willingly chose to accept the risk. Other people are not affected.
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Tancredo 2008! |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL
| Given that most areas have few choices for this sort of thing, when the privately held companies screw up, the citizens feel it as well. It doesn't come as taxes, but it definately is handed down.
Incidentally, I was more referring to the state of the network, rather than the state of one's wallet. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
1 edit | said by tsu9 :Given that most areas have few choices for this sort of thing, when the privately held companies screw up, the citizens feel it as well. People who choose to live in areas where broadband is sparse and the complain about the lack of broadband have other issues. If its that important to someone, then they should move to where the broadband is.
said by tsu9 :Incidentally, I was more referring to the state of the network, rather than the state of one's wallet. Well, let's take a look at how well most governments run the following:
•Public Schools - Why is it that we spend more and more and more on K12 education, more than any other civilization on earth and many rural and urban school systems still don't make the grade?
•Amtrak - Why does Congress think that maintaining a railroad which runs out to places where few people live will run at a profit?
•Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid - These programs are rife with so much waste and fraud already... Do you really think with the way the government spends money that you will ever see these benefits when you retire?
•Border Security - Yeah, right!
•Roads - We have a major highway network that is in need of upgrades and the bill we get out of Congress builds a bridge to nowhere in Alaska? WTF?
•Disaster Relief - FEMA, anyone?
With this in mind, I wouldn't even trust these guys with a wire crimper and a CAT-5e cable, much less running the Internet.
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Tancredo 2008! |
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jimbo2150
join:2004-05-10
Youngstown, OH
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :At least when a private company screws up, the only people affected are investors who willingly chose to accept the risk. Other people are not affected. Which would you rather have: a little bit higher risk of a SLIGHT increase in taxes, or have decent service & competetative business guaranteed?
When the investors end up having to pay for a screw-up, think what usually happens. The investors pay for the very LEAST that can be done then very little innovation is completed as the businesses are controlled by profit-loving investors.
When competition is not had, investors rule the day (unfortunately). At this point with internet it is getting to a point where the government will be required to step in a bit or face little innovation (and neighborhood 'cherry-picking') by the big companies.
I would also like to know... why are ATT/Verizon/Bell not competing on a consumer internet level???
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- "Techie" Jim |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by jimbo2150 :Which would you rather have: a little bit higher risk of a SLIGHT increase in taxes, or have decent service & competetative business guaranteed? The assumption that government control of the Internet would result in decent service & competitive business is wrong.
And no, I don't want the risk of even a SLIGHT increase in taxes, because every tax increase I've seen has never been slight.
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Tancredo 2008! |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | reply to pnh102
Like I said, neither choice is particularly savory. The current state is vastly preferrable to either getting their grubby little mitts on it. |
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BloodRoses
Gods lend wings to tainted hearts
Premium
join:2003-03-17
clubs:
·Cox HSI
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :If its that important to someone, then they should move to where the broadband is. Exactly! Charter sucks, so I moved! Hi neighbor. 
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Cheers,
Stephanie - www.GlitterFaerie.com |
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quetwo
That VoIP Guy
Premium
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI
| reply to pnh102
As it stands for me, I don't live out in the boon-docs. In face, I live in a fairly large city, this state's capitol if you will. When I moved in, I was told broadband was an option -- but what they didn't say was that broadband over 1MB was not available (nor does it seem that it ever will be). Comcast isn't out on my block (a big surprise too), so I must rely on the aging lead and copper wires in the air for my broadband.
As far as Amtrak -- Amtrak wouldn't serve anybody except for the biggest cities, if they weren't forced to. How would those without a car get from point a to point b? Greyhound would be a similar scenario.
Roads -- Thank the politicians for the way bills get voted on. |
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Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| reply to jimbo2150
said by jimbo2150 :I would also like to know... why are ATT/Verizon/Bell not competing on a consumer internet level??? They do not have a presense in each other's respective territories on the consumer level. |
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Tsume
join:2004-02-23
Johnson City, TN
·Embarq
 ·ViaTalk
·Comcast
| reply to pnh102
To me, it really can't get much worse for most of the bells. Exceptions are Verizon and many cable companies (although a bit over priced on the cable companies part) are actually upgrading speeds decently, and expanding their network.
Here it's COX or AT&T. Hmm... 9mbps... or 3mbps?
It's an obvious choice for me. Hell, COX just upgraded their standard tier here to what AT&T's highest tier is anywhere (6mbps).
Anyway, Bellsouth, Qwest, and AT&T judging from the comments made by their executives do not plan on upgrading. These are the companies I can see helped by the "threat" of a government takeover- note I say "threat" and not actually taking the company over. It might scare them into innovating. Worst comes to worse, the government will take over AT&T.
Now, let's think about it. The government will probably add some huge amount to your monthly bill, say 10 or 20 dollars. To me, that would be worth it if they would deploy some upgrades. To others, maybe not.
As to your logic of "if you don't have good broadband here, then move" - well, if you don't like the government run AT&T, then move somewhere where you can use a different ISP
See what I mean?
Not all companies should be threatened by government takeovers. My current ISP, COX, has actually been upgrading many of their markets; selling off others so they can focus on upgrading their current markets. I think they are doing fine the way they are. I really only see huge problems with the telcos (excluding Verizon because they are deploying FIOS).
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"True warriors do not follow paths, they make them. It is not just their desire, it is their nature." (Battletech) |
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scrummie02
Bentley
Premium
join:2004-04-16
Arlington, VA
| reply to pnh102
what is ironic is the same people tat are screaming for the government to get involved in regulating the internet or take control of it are the same folks that scream when the very same government wants to wire-tap to catch terrorist thugs. If they seize control or create regulations they will have even more power to do as they wish and breach our "1st and 4th amendment rights".
I'd prefer the government stay out of this all together. |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | There is a difference between ham-fisting and making sure the boys in the sandlot play nice. |
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scrummie02
Bentley
Premium
join:2004-04-16
Arlington, VA
| not really. If they mandate how the internet will be run or seize control...it wouldn't just stop there.
I don't trust the politicians more than I trust a used car salesman.
I don't trust the telco's motives either...but at least they can be punished. |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| said by scrummie02 :not really. If they mandate how the internet will be run or seize control...it wouldn't just stop there. I don't trust the politicians more than I trust a used car salesman. I don't trust the telco's motives either...but at least they can be punished. I think that many of the other DSLR readers should review what you posted, then review it again for clarity. Everyday people on this site (no need to name names  ) whine and complain about "big brother", our "oppressive police state", and how the government is invading all aspects of our lives. Shockingly (or maybe not), these SAME people are the ones who all are in support of that same government, taking control of the nations telecommunications network! So lets see if I got this right, you hate the government so much that you want them to seize private assets and take control of the countries communications infrastructure? Hmmmmmm, sounds like some people are a bit schizophrenic and delusional. You can have it both ways, take a side and stick with it for everyone else's sake.
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сумасшедшая обезьяна! |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL
1 edit | reply to scrummie02
I agree that the Government is not to be trusted fully. However, the best way I see this proceeding is them simply stating "hands off!" to the ISPs, regarding their desire to control the 'net.
In fact, that's probably the only way that will be stopped. After all, companies punished are done so via the government, and that's precisely the sort of slap on the wrist that is required here. |
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Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to wifi4milez
Nationalizing a public asset that can't be duplicated and is being abused for guaranteed (monopoly) profits, is far far far, different from violating the constitutional rights of all citizens using "teh terror". Take a look at some old Sen. McCarthy footage if you want to understand. Service providers and pipeline owners SHOULD be separate, it's the only way to have a free-market. All service providers would pay the same maintenance fee some of which would provide for upgrades.
The problem is the vertical integration will destroy any innovation that is beneficial for consumers. (unless cost cutting is passed through, no history of that) See the oil industry for a great example. You may also want to notice that the refining margins on a barrel of gasoline in the US is 20X that in Europe (where the cost of gas is high because of taxes). In Asia they actually LOSE money on refined product right now, so it's harder to make a comparison. |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :People who choose to live in areas where broadband is sparse and the complain about the lack of broadband have other issues. If its that important to someone, then they should move to where the broadband is. That's is stupid. "Ok honey I'm quiting my good paying job moving the kids out of this good school district and away from their friends so we can get better internet."
That's ok availabilty of broadband will be as important factor in house vaulues in the coming years. Would a house in area that use well water and septic tanks worth more than those that it would than if it had access to water lines and sewage systems? Would a house that had no access to phone lines be worth as much than if it did? Would a house that didn't have access to cable be worth as much than it it did?
Local governments will not like geting less property taxes because of lower porterty values and seeing busines leave or not come in because the local ISP only wants to offer 3 Mbps servie and the next town over is getting 20 Mbps. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by BF69 :That's is stupid. "Ok honey I'm quiting my good paying job moving the kids out of this good school district and away from their friends so we can get better internet." Well if you are like most people, you have have to decide what priorities are critical and which aren't. If someone thinks broadband is more important than anything else, then they would be stupid if they chose to live in a place where they could not get it. On the other hand, most people are not like that, and the situation for rural broadband isn't as bad as it used to be either.
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Tancredo 2008! |
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Fatal Vector
join:2005-11-26
1 edit | reply to pnh102
"Public Schools - Why is it that we spend more and more and more on K12 education, more than any other civilization on earth and many rural and urban school systems still don't make the grade?"
This is entirely the fault of the parents who seem to think that schools are nannys so they can run around and do what they plaese, while not allowing the nanny to impose discipline and constantly whining about everything.
"Amtrak - Why does Congress think that maintaining a railroad which runs out to places where few people live will run at a profit?"
They dont think it will run at a profit. That's not why they subsidize it. They do so because it is a way of moving freight and troops, etc in an emergency. With the nut terrorists bound to have nukes in the future, chances are the railroads will be put to good use.
"Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid - These programs are rife with so much waste and fraud already... Do you really think with the way the government spends money that you will ever see these benefits when you retire?"
Rife with so much waste? Really... There are allways a few who will take advantage (such as those who use bit torrent for warez and those who want to run servers on their residential connection) if you let them. But the number of people utilizing many of these services, like Medicaid, has been dropping for years. An example is food stamps. They have been advertising for people to sign up for food stamps because not enough (that's right) people have been using them.
And, you'll find that if you are a male, you will be ineligable for medicaid or welfare, unless you are dying or totally disabled and drooling. As far as social security, most people have been paying FICA tax all their lives and are damn well entitled to a return on their lifes investment.
"Border Security - Yeah, right!"
An issue that has boiled over and WILL be addressed, especially considering how the attitude of the mexicans that they have been here paying taxes and we damn well better give them citizenship sticks in the craws of most americans, who ask: WHAT part of the word ILLEGAL dont you understand?
"Roads - We have a major highway network that is in need of upgrades and the bill we get out of Congress builds a bridge to nowhere in Alaska? WTF?"
Well, congress pays for the US highways and Interstate maintenance. The states and localities pay for the rest, from gas taxes, Federal and state (average: about 40 cents on every gallon combined).
Actually, the interstates and US highways I've been on all over the country have been in generally very good shape and that includes the ones here in the metro that they have spent hundreds of millions on over the past 3 years.
"Disaster Relief - FEMA, anyone?"
Of course, what they fail to mention is that FEMA was made part of Homeland Security and, that when that happened, it had it's balls cut off as an agency (it used to be independent and MUCH more effective, as it's previous record attested). It had to go through more layers of management to do anything and so it's response was strangled.
If you want to blame someone, follow the money instead of blaming the patsy. If you follow the money and what happened when homeland security was formed you will find factual truth. Untill then, you really shouldn't babble untill you know what you are talking about instead of regurgitating media/party talking points. |
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