Jamuka
join:2005-06-06 | reply to shapiro44
Re: Is Broadband a Utility?
Seems that a car would be more of a "economic necessity", so does that mean everyone should have a subsidized car too?
Get real! |
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boojumbunn
Premium
join:2004-10-08
San Jose, CA | Transportation is a necessity, and yes we have subsidized public transportation. A car is NOT a necessity, however. We have subsidized bussing, train, and air travel. |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| reply to Jamuka
What the hell does a car have to do with broadband?
The comparison would be electricity, or water, or an school system, or roads, or a common defense, or a police department, or a fire department. Those are all necessities in a civilized society.
Our country today requires broadband everywhere in order for us to compete with the rest of the world. |
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tommytomtom
join:2002-08-15
Springfield, VA | reply to boojumbunn
Grow up. |
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boojumbunn
Premium
join:2004-10-08
San Jose, CA | reply to tommytomtom
Re: Is Broadband a Utility?
Ah, a witty well thought out response that is a contribution to the discussion. |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs: | reply to tommytomtom
said by tommytomtom  :Grow up. It's the truth unfortunately. |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| reply to Jamuka
Re: Is Broadband a Utility?
said by Jamuka :Seems that a car would be more of a "economic necessity", so does that mean everyone should have a subsidized car too? Get real! Huh, cars are already MASSIVELY subsidized. Almost all the roads in this country are maintained for passenger car travel by taxpayer dollars. Not to mention the hundreds of billions of military dollars spent to ensure a stable supply of fuel. |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| reply to boojumbunn
I don't know if it involves "growing up", but it does involve knowing what you're talking about.
said by boojumbunn :Transportation is a necessity, and yes we have subsidized public transportation. A car is NOT a necessity, however. We have subsidized bussing, train, and air travel. We sure don't have subsidized public transportation in most rural areas, which is where they are talking about using the USF slush fund to back broadband deployment. Pick most any little (under 7,500 population) farming town in the Midwest or Great Plains and you'll see what I mean--no buses, no trains, and no scheduled air service. Many of them do, however, have some sort of broadband--either a cable driven solution or some wireless approach.
Find a better analogy.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! |
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boojumbunn
Premium
join:2004-10-08
San Jose, CA
| In a lot of rural area's we do.. because Greyhound Bus, Trailways Bus, AmTrack Trains, and most airlines have been subsidized by the american government. There are VERY few places that don't have a bus passing within a reasonable distance. Mobility within the country is considered to be a right held by every citizen (unless that right has been lost due to a felony conviction) and to promote the exchange of goods and mobility of the population the government subsidize a wide array of transportation options. Individual vehicles are generaly not one of thos subsidies, however.
In addition, the infrastructure that makes such transport possible (such as right of ways, roads, etc.) is paid for by the government. That is a bit of a different issue, however.
BTW, thank you for responding with some actual information that I can respond to. The problem with responses like "grow up" is that it's hard to tell exactly what it is in your statement that they are disagreeing with. |
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boojumbunn
Premium
join:2004-10-08
San Jose, CA
| For more on Federal subsidy of rural transportation you can go to »www.fta.dot.gov/17861_17864_ENG_HTML.htm This is the Federal Transportation Agency. There are seperate programs for tribal lands, of course.
If your a rural community you can apply for grants and low interest loans from the federal government to help support public transportation in your area. |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| reply to boojumbunn
I spend a fair amount of time in rural America, and I grew up there. If you look at the towns Amtrak, Greyhound, and that loose affiliation of independents that calls itself "Trailways" serve, you'll find that very few of them fall into the "under 7,500" population I mentioned--and many of the towns I'm talking about aren't close to the towns served, either. (I said "farming communities", not "suburbs".)
There are, for instance, only 4 east-west Amtrak routes between the Mississippi and the west coast, and only two north-south routes there--one in the Mississippi valley and one in California.
I still think there are better analogies.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! |
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boojumbunn
Premium
join:2004-10-08
San Jose, CA
| And any of those communities can request funding from the federal government for rural transportation, provided they have fewer than 10,000 people. This transportation can tie into existing lines to provide further transportation throughout the nation.
If you have a better analogy, your welcome to provide it.. mine wasn't an analogy, mine was a response to a person saying that Cars were a necessity and should be subsidized. My response was that it's not cars, its transportation that is a necessity and transportation IS subsidized. I certainly wasn't comparing the various rural transportation funding programs to broadband. |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Ahaa!
Sorry. I read your note as trying to say that broadband deserves subsidies because it's like transportation.
To the extent we disagree on whether broadband is a "necessity", that argument is raging elsewhere in this note tree.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! |
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Geminimind
Premium
join:2003-12-20
Sacramento, CA | reply to boojumbunn
Broadband is not a utility but everyone should be entitled to the service |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| reply to PDXPLT
said by PDXPLT :Huh, cars are already MASSIVELY subsidized. Almost all the roads in this country are maintained for passenger car travel by taxpayer dollars. Yes... gas taxes, registration fees, and other car taxes all pay for roads in most states. Heck, these taxes subsidize other forms of transport as well. Gas prices could be lower if it wasn't taxed to pay for mass transit.
The bottom line is if a person chooses not to drive, he/she won't be paying for a transportation system that he/she doesn't use.
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Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! |
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