shapiro44
join:2004-03-01
Highland, NY | Is Broadband a Utility?
Yes absolutely!!
All Americans should have affordable broadband available.
It is economic necessity. |
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Jamuka
join:2005-06-06 | Seems that a car would be more of a "economic necessity", so does that mean everyone should have a subsidized car too?
Get real! |
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boojumbunn
Premium
join:2004-10-08
San Jose, CA | Transportation is a necessity, and yes we have subsidized public transportation. A car is NOT a necessity, however. We have subsidized bussing, train, and air travel. |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| reply to Jamuka
What the hell does a car have to do with broadband?
The comparison would be electricity, or water, or an school system, or roads, or a common defense, or a police department, or a fire department. Those are all necessities in a civilized society.
Our country today requires broadband everywhere in order for us to compete with the rest of the world. |
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tommytomtom
join:2002-08-15
Springfield, VA | reply to boojumbunn
Grow up. |
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Maarvin
Premium
join:2005-04-11
Denver, CO | reply to shapiro44
Re: Is Broadband a Utility?
Then it should be regulated and taxed, as well? |
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boojumbunn
Premium
join:2004-10-08
San Jose, CA | reply to tommytomtom
Ah, a witty well thought out response that is a contribution to the discussion. |
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maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to shapiro44
said by shapiro44  :Yes absolutely!! The thing with a "Utility" is however.... that you are charged for it per the amount you use of it.
Up until the 40ties or so, there were still watercompanies and gascompanies who charged "flat fee" for water and gas, and in the 20ties (before the crash) it wasn't uncommon for electricity to be a flat rate as well.
The very first long distance services for phonelines were flat fee. Not everyone had their own phone, so you went to the local post office or hotel, paid the phone operator a fixed fee, and then called whomever you needed to call.
Of course that all changed rapidly when everyone was connected.....
Will broadband be next?
There are already plans to offer "pay as you go" broadband, although I don't know if it ever materialized. This means that you pay them a low amount a month for a connection, lets say $15 a month, and on top of that you pay for the amount of data you transfer with it, lets say $1 per gigabyte. To offset spam, unwanted traffic, trojan traffic activity on the internet (not your infection but just general probing) and whatnot, an ISP could decide to include 1 Gb of free traffic.
All utilities went to a model where you pay for what you use.... should broadband really be next? I think its great for those who don't use the internet all that much (bill will go down) but those with a family or big download habits won't be too happy with such a setup.
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"I'm honored to shake the hand of a brave Iraqi citizen who had his hand cut off by Saddam Hussein." - Bush, May 2004. |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| I disagree..
Broadband being billed as a utility is ABSOLUTELY WRONG. Period.
Reason: There is no incremental or unit cost for broadband, unlike electricity or water.
Well, I pay for 1.5mb downstream T-1 for my internet. If I USE all 1.5mb/sec, the cost to the local loop provider (verizon) is NO DIFFERENT than if I use 0mb/sec. The cost to UUnet is NO DIFFERENT than if I use 0mb/sec. So using 1.5mb/sec vs. 0mb/sec is the same cost. In water, if I use 100 gallons per second, then they need to pump 100 gallons more of water, which means there's a unit cost.
The internet is a capital intensive, but unit free utility. You have capital costs, but that's what we are paying for every month. As long as there is REAL COMPETITION, the concept of 'charging for the byte' will never succeed, since I the consumer, will base my decision on what's a better value for me. We don't exist to serve the corporation. Just repeat that and you'll understand.
*final note: Do you REALLY think that you'll get a discount if you only use your high speed for 'web browsing'?
*double final note: Mr. Burns blocking out the sun, in order to increase the revenue of the power plant is probably the closest analogy to what the telco's what for the internet. And we all saw what happened to Mr. Burns. (in the real world, even going to a better hospital won't upgrade your condition from 'dead' to 'alive' though. |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs: | reply to tommytomtom
said by tommytomtom :Grow up. It's the truth unfortunately. |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
| reply to Maarvin
said by Maarvin :Then it should be regulated and taxed, as well? Isn't it already? |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| reply to Jamuka
Re: Is Broadband a Utility?
said by Jamuka :Seems that a car would be more of a "economic necessity", so does that mean everyone should have a subsidized car too? Get real! Huh, cars are already MASSIVELY subsidized. Almost all the roads in this country are maintained for passenger car travel by taxpayer dollars. Not to mention the hundreds of billions of military dollars spent to ensure a stable supply of fuel. |
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xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA | reply to shapiro44
it is totally NOT a utility. "they" just want you to believe it is. it is a complete luxury to have any connection above 28.8
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I am not herbert. |
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FTCXtreme
join:2005-03-14
New Braintree, MA | reply to shapiro44
It not but everyone should be able to get atleast 768k DSL. I'd be quite content with that. |
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djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
 ·PHONE POWER
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to G_Poobah
quote:
There is no incremental or unit cost for broadband, unlike electricity or water
Your phone line is a utility and it is no different than internet data transfer. If they want to bill by use they can charge per kilobyte. With VOIP threatening to eliminate pay-by-minute telephone service, I think telcos will be looking more and more towards implementing metered rate internet service.
-- Rob
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\\ROB - a part of the SCB local network |
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
| reply to G_Poobah
said by G_Poobah :I disagree.. Broadband being billed as a utility is ABSOLUTELY WRONG. Period. You opine.
said by G_Poobah :Reason: There is no incremental or unit cost for broadband, unlike electricity or water. Unfortunately this is not true. If I purchase a T-1 from Verizon, AT&T or someone else. It will carry 1.544 Mbits/sec. That is all it will carry. If I run full 24x7 for one 30 day month it will move 1.544*60*60*24*30 bits of data. Since it is a fixed cost pipe. My price per bit is the monthly cost of the pipe over the total number of bits I can move in a month with that pipe. Therefore I pay an incremental price per bit for the gaurantee from Verizon that I can move that much traffic per month if that is my desire. It is in the Service Level Agreement. They gaurantee me a certain performance. I pay the big bucks to get that performance.
said by G_Poobah :Well, I pay for 1.5mb downstream T-1 for my internet. If I USE all 1.5mb/sec, the cost to the local loop provider (verizon) is NO DIFFERENT than if I use 0mb/sec. Yes it is. If your traffic only stayed on the local loop, your statement would be true. Are there lots of web sites on your local loop? Your carrier, Verizon in this case, pays for their connection to the Internet whence your traffic arrives to your local loop.
said by G_Poobah : The cost to UUnet is NO DIFFERENT than if I use 0mb/sec. So using 1.5mb/sec vs. 0mb/sec is the same cost. In water, if I use 100 gallons per second, then they need to pump 100 gallons more of water, which means there's a unit cost. Do they pump that water from your local loop or does that water come from a water tower somewhere (THE INTERNET).
said by G_Poobah :The internet is a capital intensive, but unit free utility. BULLSHIT.
said by G_Poobah : You have capital costs, but that's what we are paying for every month. As long as there is REAL COMPETITION, the concept of 'charging for the byte' will never succeed, since I the consumer, will base my decision on what's a better value for me. We don't exist to serve the corporation. Just repeat that and you'll understand. Mark this down and take it to the bank. You will live to see per byte pricing on data arriving at your computer by ANY medium.
said by G_Poobah :*final note: Do you REALLY think that you'll get a discount if you only use your high speed for 'web browsing'? *double final note: Mr. Burns blocking out the sun, in order to increase the revenue of the power plant is probably the closest analogy to what the telco's what for the internet. And we all saw what happened to Mr. Burns. (in the real world, even going to a better hospital won't upgrade your condition from 'dead' to 'alive' though. What? 
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We dogs are NOT impressed with pussy cats. |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| reply to boojumbunn
I don't know if it involves "growing up", but it does involve knowing what you're talking about.
said by boojumbunn :Transportation is a necessity, and yes we have subsidized public transportation. A car is NOT a necessity, however. We have subsidized bussing, train, and air travel. We sure don't have subsidized public transportation in most rural areas, which is where they are talking about using the USF slush fund to back broadband deployment. Pick most any little (under 7,500 population) farming town in the Midwest or Great Plains and you'll see what I mean--no buses, no trains, and no scheduled air service. Many of them do, however, have some sort of broadband--either a cable driven solution or some wireless approach.
Find a better analogy.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! |
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