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Qwest High Speed Subscriber Service Agreement

You gotta use an approved modem?
- Nope, but they do not promise it will work or not fry your house and data, you are on your own as far as service.

You can't run any servers?
- sounds like it, but can you run a private server that is not for public information? And does it matter if you have a real ISP and not qwest as an ISP?

You could pay to $5 per spam?
- Ought to be more, but what happens if you get hacked? Even the pros have been buggered by the bad guys.

No sharing service outside your home?
- Ummm....they do say one residence. But if you are with a real ISP, then does it matter? Or is it the line? I get the impression it is only if you use qwest as the ISP.

Someone misuses your wireless, your responsible?
- makes sense to me, but at least they could HELP prosecute the abuser.

Also, they can change the rules on you and you have no recourse, but you have to follow the rules or else lose your first born. Over half the PDF seems to be saying "we own you".
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I am not lost, I find myself every time.

Seems like they are attempting to tighten the acceptable uses: Here are some quotes:

"If you do not purchase or rent a modem from Qwest you must provide a modem from the list at:" »www.qwest.com/internethelp/modems/index.html
- BTW, that means you can't even use a Cisco 678 since it's not listed.

"Service may only be used in the U.S. and you may not use Service to host any type of server, personal or commercial."
- What exactly is a server??? Is it anything that accepts an inbound connection and responds? Look out, that covers a lot of applications and devices!

"If actual damages cannot be calculated reasonably, you agree to pay Qwest liquidated damages of five U.S. dollars ($5.00) for each piece of spam transmitted from or otherwise connected to your account."
- I hope your XMas email is welcomed by all or they may report you as a spammer. Also, make sure your email server doesn't have an open relay that some spammer uses to bounce email. Wait, I forgot, no servers so that shouldn't happen!

"You may connect multiple computers/devices within a single home or office location to your modem and/or router to access the Service, but the Service may only be used at the single home or office location for which the Service was provisioned by Qwest"
- Pretty clear that wireless broadcast to your neighbor is a no-no!

"You are responsible for all use of your Service regardless of the source of the transmission, whether by you, or an authorized or unauthorized third party, over your Service."
- Don't let anybody crack your wireless encryption and go on a porn fest!

This applies to all Qwest DSL users regardless of which ISP you use. Only a limited number of rules in Sections 2(b) ii-v apply specifically to qwest.net type users.
--
My other passion is mountain biking. Info on the Colorado based Front Range Mountain Bike Patrol - FRMBP can be found at:»www.frmbp.org

reply to adsldude
I couldn't find the text for servers that was quoted, but add me to those who will tell Qwest to stick it where the sun don't shine if they come after me about it. Hint people, everything from web browsers to instant messaging clients to P2P programs are servers. A server is anything that accepts an inbound connection. P.S. I run a personal mail server on my line and I'm NOT giving that up. I'll take the responsibility for making sure it can't spam, thank you. (And no, it's impossible.)

The one thing that got me about the new agreement is that you specifically give up all rights you have under state law and agree to arbitration. I'm not a lawyer, but there's been a LOT of controversy over whether that's even legal. I doubt anything will be an issue, but you can be assured that if push comes to shove and they ever try anything, I WILL be making a stink. Qwest needs the goodwill of the state overseers. They can't screw things up too badly.

Unfortunately, DSL and the internet don't always fall under the same rules as telephone. Also, many lawmakers see dsl and the internet as a service and commodity. (WHICH IT SHOULD BE). If a company want to put limits on the services they provide, they have every right to. We also have every right not to use them for that service. We don't need regulators involved. That's already half the problem, the government.

I had a few servers running for quite a while locally. One reason I went to Qwest DSL was because the cable company wouldn't allow servers. The wireless ISP's in our area also don't allow servers, and now it looks like Qwest is stopping it. With a trend like this, the only problem really is that you may find it difficult to find someone who will allow servers on their system.

A year ago, I stopped my web, email, and ftp servers from being on Qwest and moved them to a commerical hosting company. //mister.net . Not that I'm promoting them, I get nothing out of it, but I get my DOMAIN NAME registered through them, Static IP, 500mb of storage space (You can get as much as you want), unlimitted email server accounts with your domain or any sub domains, and 5gb transfer rate (You can get more). I get this all for $35 a YEAR. YES A YEAR. I am bringing this up because that is less than $3 a month. My STATIC IP with Qwest cost more than that!!! Plus I saved $3 a month going from Qwest with MSN to Qwest.net, so for the same price I also got good email, web, and ftp servers running on OC48 and OC96 fiber circuits.

There are definately times when people would like local servers like game servers and such. I hope this can still be possible. Even if Qwest keeps it available on their business type dsl accounts that would be something. The point is I don't like Qwest for doing this, but everyone else is doing too. Doesn't make it right, but it is their business. They have the right to limit it anyway they feel. And at least up in my part of the world, giving up qwest out of principle wouldn't help me because there is NO OTHER PROVIDER locally that would allow servers.

One final thought!!!! How DOES this really apply to Qwest.NET customers as opposed to Qwest with MSN. The reason I ask is because as a Qwest.net customer, they offer me space and ASSISTANCE on running a web site. Static IP addresses, etc... Just wondering if the terms of agreement is different for the Qwest/MSN.COM customers and the Qwest.net customers. Later.... Mike....

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reply to adsldude
A few months back, the FCC made a move to reclassify ADSL as an "Information Service" rather than a "Communication Service". This puts DSL in the same category as the Cable Intenet. So after a transition period of one year, DSL will be less regulated. This means that the telcos won't need to share their lines for DSL with CLECs like Earthlink and they won't have to pay the USF fees on DSL revenue.

It also seems that the telcos are free to attach whatever terms and conditions they wish on their service agreements. Some of the information on the Qwest web pages talks about the company electing to transition to a commercial service agreement starting 01/28/06. Interestingly, this date corresponds to the current end date for the promo pricing.

It does appear to me that Qwest has done their new agreement on the cheap, trying to do a one-size-fits-all agreement for both residential and business. Obviously, many business accounts are used to host web servers. And many MSN accounts are used to host personal web servers and test application servers (since many of us are IT pros that work from home part of the time).

But as someone else mentioned, it may be the Qwest is merely reserving the option of enforcing the letter of the agreement against the bad apples. The spirit of the agreement may be to conform to the profile of the typical american family - web surfing for a 2-4 hours per day, a few hundred MB of download per week, etc. But if you are hosting your own SMTP server to send out SPAM, or hosting a web server offering up the Paris Hilton Video for free download, you could and should get termed by Qwest.

We won't know for certain whether Qwest is serious about enforcing the new agreement until next November, when the old agreement for current subscribers expires. If they then start blocking ports, we will know they intend to do so. But if they don't, then it is probably just something to get rid of service abusers.

Lastly, it is interesting that Qwest states that certain clauses within section 2 don't apply to third party ISP's, but they didn't also exempt section 7. But if you have a third party ISP, I can't see how they can enforce section 7 (port blocking is something done to TCP/IP traffic, not ATM cells).

My 2 cents. John

reply to adsldude
Note that this doesn't go into effect until 11/26/06, so don't panic just yet. If you want a server that maintains high traffic, you're better off having it hosted, anyways.

I suspect this is mostly "CYA" legaleze, designed so they have the ability to crack down on someone constantly hogging bandwidth because they're running a high volume server or sharing their connection with neighbors. I don't expect that this will have any impact on all but very small minority. Also gives them the ability to recover damages if they get sued because a customer is spamming.

I did find this amusing though, since obscene, defamatory, abusive, hateful, and exessively violent content pretty much describes 75% of the Internet

"Users shall not use the Qwest Network and Services to transmit, distribute or store material that is inappropriate, as reasonably determined by Qwest, or material that is obscene (including child pornography), defamatory, libelous, threatening, abusive, hateful, or excessively violent."

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reply to adsldude
Got this in email today. Guess they decided they should notify us. Doesn't kick in fer me till next Nov...

December 22, 2005

Changes to your Qwest® High-Speed Internet Service Agreement

Dear Customer,

Your business is important to us. Accordingly, we make every effort to
provide you the latest information regarding your Qwest service(s).

The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) recently issued an order that
affects high-speed Internet service providers, such as Qwest High-Speed
Internet (or Qwest DSL®). Companies providing high-speed Internet access
now have the option of providing terms and conditions that govern the
service under a subscriber agreement with its customers in lieu of a
tariff.

Qwest will provide high-speed Internet services to all new subscribers
under a subscriber agreement beginning January 28, 2006. As an existing
customer, if you do not make changes to your current Qwest High-Speed
Internet service, the change will not affect you. Your service will
continue under the same terms and conditions to which you originally
subscribed until November 16, 2006.

On November 16, 2006 (or at an earlier date that you make any changes to
your service) -- Qwest will transfer the governance of your service to the
new subscriber agreement. Qwest will assume you have accepted these terms
unless you contact Qwest within 30 days of your transfer date.

We appreciate that you have chosen Qwest. For more information, please
visit us on the Web at »www.qwest.com/legal for more information on
Qwest High-Speed Internet service terms and conditions.

Sincerely,

Scott Russell
Product Director
Qwest Communications
1801 California Street
Denver, Colorado 80202

The smiley was not added by me... lol

reply to adsldude

Re: Qwest High Speed Subscriber Service Agreement

reply to adsldude
Sweet that might be something I need to check out.

reply to adsldude
There are lots of good ISPs out that that are more than happy to let you run any server you need on your DSL connection.

Yes, including XMission (shameless, I know).