bcbuie
join:2005-07-20
| PoE over 330 ft?
We are going to have a PoE run about 350 ft.
Has anyone had any experience running them this far. I know it is slightly over spec (330ft), but I was wondering if anyone had real-world experience running PoE at or slightly over spec.
I imagine it will be a voltage issue more than a data issue, since we are only using such a minimal portion of Ethernet's total bandwidth (using 7Mbps out of 100Mbps).
What are my other options, short of putting an outdoor enclosure at the base of our tower (with two PoE boxes and a small 5-port switch) and running power wire to it? I would rather not have to deal with an outdoor enclosure if I didn't have to. I'm not crazy about the idea of having indoor equipment outdoors, even in an enclosure.
Thanks,
Ben |
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herr_cain
join:2003-08-29
Rolla, MO
| You should have no trouble powering a little over spec. I remember doing one at 320ft for one of my setups a couple years past. The only thing I had to get was a more powerful AC/DC supply, that could supply more voltage (~16 for my device).
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http://www.dutchelitedivision.nl |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
 ·CenturyLink
| reply to bcbuie
said by bcbuie  :I would rather not have to deal with an outdoor enclosure if I didn't have to. I'm not crazy about the idea of having indoor equipment outdoors, even in an enclosure. This isn't really much of a problem. I have built and installed "indoor" equipment in rated enclosures in some of the most hostile environments possible...waterwater treatment plants (Hydrogen Sulfide and Chlorine) and log mills (pitch, sawdust, oil and water).
As long as the enclosure is rated for the environment and the door latches are made up properly, everything will be "clean and shiny" when you get back in there.
I would suggest doing what you don't want to do. Low voltage sags can lead to problems of the worst kind...intermittent ones. I would even put a small UPS in the enclosure to help combat this problem.
Enclosure examples:
»www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/it···&ccitem=
»www.hyperlinktech.com/web/nema_t···sure.php
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kewlkeed
Grouch
Premium
join:2005-02-05
Knowlton, QC
| reply to bcbuie
Hey John on that topic have you ever seen any large metal cases from Hammond?
We managed to get a surplus of about 8 large metal boxes from them that was for a discontinued sat project that never took off. Thoes boxes were AMAZING but they don't have them anymore. We haven't checked back with Hammond to see if they can make more or have anything similar. Just wanted to throw another name in the mix here because the cases we got from them are great. Box weighs a ton but you can litterally beat on it with a hammer and it won't dent. Also has a very rugged key locking system on it. |
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bcbuie
join:2005-07-20
| reply to bcbuie
What about running AC power (underground) to the enclosure where the PoE junction boxes and switch will be.
Then using a nice sine-wave UPS indoors.
We have a nice UPS we are planning to use, I could put that indoors, run AC power from the UPS to the enclosure (about 180 ft.), and then only run the PoE up the tower (170 ft.).
I would assume the battery on the UPS will hold charge much better indoors.
Do you think we will need a fan or anything? This is in Alabama, it gets very hot during the summer, the winters are mild. Of course, there will be tree-cover so it probably won't be exposed to direct sunlight except at high noon. Only thing in the enclosure would be 2 PoE j-boxes, 2 power bricks (for the PoE j-boxes), and a small Netgear FS-105 5-port switch.
Any particular enclosure you would recommend for specifically that setup?
Ben |
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cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA
| reply to bcbuie
I would echo John's comments about doing it with an enclosure.
Some equipment is tolerant of long runs and other's aren't.
Then even with just 20 feet over the ethernet spec you can have problems with data. It isn't a matter of how much data you want to move, it's that things like autonegotiation can fail etc once again depending on the mfg.
With all of those uncertainties why would you not go with an enclosure. I like the idea of running the power from the indoor ups out to the box if possible.
I would look into a peltier cooling plate because I wouldn't want to use a fan in your humidity. Here in CA they make little add on vents and fans with good filters but we don't have the moisture in the air like you do. |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| said by cmaenginsb :I would look into a peltier cooling plate because I wouldn't want to use a fan in your humidity. »www.coleman.com/coleman/colemanc···yid=8570
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lutful
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to bcbuie
The problem is not how far 48V can travel over twisted pair rather how far 100Mbps Ethernet signal travels over CAT5 - that depends on the Ethernet PHY ASIC specification and the intermediate connectors.
I was part of the design team of several 10/100 and DSL chipsets at ST Micro, so I can tell you that newer 3.3V PHYs from Realtek, ADMtek, Broadcom, Davicom, etc cut corners in the analog TX drivers.
So, the 100Mbps MLT3 signal envelop degrades a lot even before 100m (300ft). Manchester waveform would fare better even at 500ft, but you may want more than 10Mbps half-duplex!
We have engineered long range PoE using a very simple trick to make links upto 600ft with a midspan "Radialink PoE Wizardry" box.
It is really sad the kewlkeed/snowpro2000 has done such damage to our tiny reputation in this forum - otherwise I would have had the motivation to bring out so many useful WISP products!
You may see the kind of home-brew PoE work we do in a recent post on a 5Ghz custom heated outdoor PoE package designed to meet the low-ball price target set by the snowpro2000/kewlkeed network. It was an excellent effort at making a $1K backbone radio that could compete against Proxim/Redline. |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| said by lutful :...our tiny reputation... That's facinating...it continues to get smaller with every post.
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| reply to lutful
said by lutful :It is really sad the kewlkeed/snowpro2000 has done such damage to our tiny reputation in this forum - otherwise I would have had the motivation to bring out so many useful WISP products! WHOA!. Before You started to mention all of these issues, I don't think Anyone here even knew about them?. In defense of both kewlkeed/snowpro2000, I can't remember one time that a "Radialink' was mentioned in any of their post's?. While they may have mentioned their experiences with Wi-Fi plus units, I would have NEVER known that they were distributed by You until You told us, and until You started mentioning all of these things, I assumed it was all the fault of Wi-Fi plus, so thank You for enlightening me on this, Now I have 2 people/CO's to place the blame  (Just kidding!:D ). Please correct me if I am wrong?, as I have been in the past!
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»www.wavecrazy.net Join WISPA today! »www.wispa.org/ |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| reply to bcbuie
said by bcbuie :What about running AC power (underground) to the enclosure where the PoE junction boxes and switch will be? Then using a nice sine-wave UPS indoors. We have a nice UPS we are planning to use, I could put that indoors, run AC power from the UPS to the enclosure (about 180 ft.), and then only run the PoE up the tower (170 ft.). Make sure that you use #10 wire for the run to the enclosure. General rule-of-thumb is #12 to 100 feet, #10 to 200 feet...
The voltage drop will depend on the connected load...but you should have a minimum load there. If you decide that you want to add something in the future you will be covered.
As cmaenginsb noted, putting the switch out there will mitigate the CAT5 issues.
Any particular enclosure you would recommend for specifically that setup? I like the Hyperlink box, especially if it is in a protected area. The price is right, it's NEMA 4/IP65, with stainless hardware and a backplate for mounting.
If it isn't protected (vandalism), then a metal box would be better.
As to the temp issues...a sun shield will reduce the temp significantly. I'll post a picture...
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bcbuie
join:2005-07-20 | reply to bcbuie
I went with the ABS plastic one from Hyperlink because it included a 110v outlet and I'm a cheap bastard. That will be ok, right?
Good idea on the sunshield.
Ben |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| said by bcbuie :I went with the ABS plastic one from Hyperlink because it included a 110v outlet and I'm a cheap bastard. That will be ok, right? That's fine...they are actually quite robust.
Be careful when you drill holes for the conduit...a normal hole saw is usually too big. You can get a "conduit-sized" on for the same price...you just need to ask for that kind.
Or drill one a size smaller and file it out (it's easy).
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lutful
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to superdog
kewlkeed and snowpro2000 did a lot of posts re Radialink and even mentioned me by name in earlier posts.
But the most damage is being done by PM to potential customers, some of whom figure out their (lack of) knowledge and contact me anyway.
They actually tried to get a new employee of my friend to return perfectly working equipment! I have those PMs.
»Intrest on an in-depth comparision on WISP hardwer
»Please help me "access" this 5Ghz radio! |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| reply to bcbuie
said by bcbuie :Good idea on the sunshield. This is one node of a city-wide WiFi system in Hermiston, Oregon.
Note the gap between the box and the shields. This is sufficient to keep the temperature at a tolerable level within the box.
It gets pretty toasty in Hermiston during the summer and these are in direct sunlight...no shade at all.
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lutful
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to John Galt
Dear John,
My obscure one-man company Radialink's "tiny" reputation was built on just one thread early 2004 - got us so many leads including the fateful one from Knowlton,QC.
»Re: [General] Farewell! Move to WISP, obligatory b
I regret that I personally believed wifi-plus hype at that time. Should have urged the customer to live with the Securawave 17dBi. |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp | If you have issues with people, perhaps you could discuss it with them off the forum...
Eh?
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lutful
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| My sincere apologies to everyone for any irrelevant material I may have posted.:)
Really, I tried to be so civilized and professional in all my posts until last night. I had just found out about the PM solicitation of one of my best customers.
I am over it now.
I realize it is very tough to defend against rumours and innuendos. I will get back to my business of helping WISPs. |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| reply to lutful
said by lutful :kewlkeed and snowpro2000 did a lot of posts re Radialink and even mentioned me by name in earlier posts. OK, after re-reading those posts, I can confirm that You were mentioned here:
said by snowpro2000 :Justin.... you forgot to add all that fine Radialink gear to your suggestions. Paul C I read thru the help me access thread, and not once did anyone mention Your name, so by telling us that You were "The consultant" they were speaking of, You Yourself let the ole' Cat out of the bag as it were.
In the last link You posted, some users in the Satellite forum appeared to be happy with what You did, so hats off to You. Since I was not around when all of these events transpired, I can only sit back and listen to both sides and draw my own conclusions, as all of us do in one way or another. The comment from snowpro awhile back would have gone unnoticed if You had not mentioned it today. Lets just all smile and get along, and DROP this subject from now on, and life WILL be good.:D
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»www.wavecrazy.net Join WISPA today! »www.wispa.org/ |
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bcbuie
join:2005-07-20 | reply to bcbuie
Is the sunshield made out of some kind of special reflective material, or is it just a metal plate with a gap between it and from the enclosure?
Ben |
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