Gabriel 22
join:2005-11-04
Canada
| Is there a way to not see a vulnerable router ? I see a wireless router that has no security, nothing. It bothers my family to use wireless now because of this.
Is there a way to not see this vulnerable broadcasting wireless router without disabling our wireless internet ?
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Happy Dell PC Owner. | |
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cacroll
Eventually, Prozac becomes normal
Premium
join:2002-07-25
Martinez, CA
| Re: Is there a way to not see a vulnerable router said by Gabriel 22  :I see a wireless router that has no security, nothing. It bothers my family to use wireless now because of this. Is there a way to not see this vulnerable broadcasting wireless router without disabling our wireless internet ?
As stated elsewhere in this forum, not seeing another router / WAP is easily done.
•Make sure that your WAP is set to broadcast the SSID.
•Change the SSID to be unique (but not something that can easily identify you).
•In your wireless client, set that SSID as preferred.
•In your wireless client, set to connect only to preferred access points.
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Cheers,
Chuck
MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
PChuck's Network | |
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Gabriel 22
join:2005-11-04
Canada
| Re: Is there a way to not see a vulnerable router said by cacroll :said by Gabriel 22 :I see a wireless router that has no security, nothing. It bothers my family to use wireless now because of this. Is there a way to not see this vulnerable broadcasting wireless router without disabling our wireless internet ? As stated elsewhere in this forum, not seeing another router / WAP is easily done. •Make sure that your WAP is set to broadcast the SSID. •Change the SSID to be unique (but not something that can easily identify you). •In your wireless client, set that SSID as preferred. •In your wireless client, set to connect only to preferred access points. That's great. Thanks ! 
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Happy Dell PC Owner. | |
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cacroll
Eventually, Prozac becomes normal
Premium
join:2002-07-25
Martinez, CA
| Re: Is there a way to not see a vulnerable router said by Gabriel 22 :said by cacroll :said by Gabriel 22 :I see a wireless router that has no security, nothing. It bothers my family to use wireless now because of this. Is there a way to not see this vulnerable broadcasting wireless router without disabling our wireless internet ? As stated elsewhere in this forum, not seeing another router / WAP is easily done. •Make sure that your WAP is set to broadcast the SSID. •Change the SSID to be unique (but not something that can easily identify you). •In your wireless client, set that SSID as preferred. •In your wireless client, set to connect only to preferred access points. That's great. Thanks !
My pleasure. Stop by any time! 
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Cheers,
Chuck
MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
PChuck's Network | |
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| Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA | Sorry but that will not STOP the unsecured wireless signals from showing up when you "View Wireless Networks". They will still be there and can be connected to very simply.
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Gabriel 22
join:2005-11-04
Canada | Re: Is there a way to not see a vulnerable router I can't test it for a few days to see for myself.
Is there any way to hide my ssid so nobody see's it ?
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Happy Dell PC Owner. | |
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Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| Re: Is there a way to not see a vulnerable router said by Gabriel 22 :Is there any way to hide my ssid so nobody see's it ? No, there really isn't.
Even if you turn SSID broadcasts off, passive detection tools can still pull the SSID from the air. Doing so doesn't provide any extra security, whatsoever, and obfuscates the process of connecting to your AP in WCZ.
Using WPA really is the best solution.
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Gabriel 22
join:2005-11-04
Canada
1 edit | Re: Is there a way to not see a vulnerable router said by Nerdtalker :said by Gabriel 22 :Is there any way to hide my ssid so nobody see's it ? No, there really isn't. Even if you turn SSID broadcasts off, passive detection tools can still pull the SSID from the air. Doing so doesn't provide any extra security, whatsoever, and obfuscates the process of connecting to your AP in WCZ. Using WPA really is the best solution. Do they have to use special software to see my ssid if I disable broadcasting it, or would it show up on their available router list ?
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Happy Dell PC Owner. | |
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| | | | | Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA
| Re: Is there a way to not see a vulnerable router IF you disable the SSID "YOU" will have a hard time connecting to your own wireless. Turning off the broadcasting of the SSID does nothing for security. Just name it something like 221B Baker St.
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Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| said by Gabriel 22 :Do they have to use special software to see my ssid if I disable broadcasting it, or would it show up on their available router list ? It isn't that special, really, but yes, they'd need software to "see" your SSID.
The bottom line is that disabling SSID broadcasts provides no additional security, whatsoever. It just doesn't.
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Gabriel 22
join:2005-11-04
Canada
| Re: Is there a way to not see a vulnerable router I think I'll still use it. The people who don't secure their router aren't likely to use hacker software just so they can see my hidden ssid. I understand the local wardriver would see it though if they were determined.
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Happy Dell PC Owner. | |
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| | | | | | | Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA
| Re: Is there a way to not see a vulnerable router Really you are NOT getting the POINT.
Hiding the SSID means absolutely nothing for security and only makes it harder for YOU to connect to your own wireless signal.
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Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| Re: Is there a way to not see a vulnerable router said by Shootist :Hiding the SSID means absolutely nothing for security and only makes it harder for YOU to connect to your own wireless signal. Exactly.
It's truly worthless, and it provides a false sense of security.
You don't need magical "toolz" to see the AP, a bunch of it doesn't require any special technical knowledge to use.
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Gabriel 22
join:2005-11-04
Canada
| Re: Is there a way to not see a vulnerable router said by Nerdtalker :You don't need magical "toolz" to see the (ssid) I didn't understand this point.
Thank you very much for clarifying that.
Netgear tech support says nobody can see it without special "Toolz" though.
So now I'm a bit confused. 
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Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| Re: Is there a way to not see a vulnerable router said by Gabriel 22 :Thank you very much for clarifying that. Netgear tech support says nobody can see it without special "Toolz" though. Well, they really aren't that special at all.
In all honesty, it can make associating with your AP considerably more difficult, and I've seen some AP-Wireless NIC combinations that have major issues associating when using WPA when the AP doesn't have SSID broadcasts turned on.
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"Some people never see the light till it shines thru bullet holes." -Bruce Cockburn
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| | | | | | | | | Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA
| Simple fact is if you're running Windows XP you will need to broadcast the SSID to make a connection.
So the real question is IF you can NAME it anything you want, Not Open/Go Away/I'll find you if you try to connect/ WHATEVER, and it adds nothing as far as security and only inhibits you from connecting to your own wireless signal why would you want to hide it???????
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Gabriel 22
join:2005-11-04
Canada
1 edit | Re: Is there a way to not see a vulnerable router Why would I want to hide it.
I guess so the unsecured Wifi router owner doesn't see us.
I mean. They don't even know how to secure their equipment.
Couldn't I just slip by unnoticed by hiding the ssid ?
It doesn't matter. I use xp, so I'll have to broadcast the ssid.
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| | | | | | | | | jza80
join:2005-10-29
Sacramento, CA
| Re: Is there a way to not see a vulnerable router Hiding the SSID does absolutely nothing security wise. Only real way to turn it off is unplug your wireless router/AP or turn off wireless.
If your worried about someone using your connection, use WEP or WPA. WPA is preferred over WEP.
As for special "toolz", try NetStumbler. It picks up wireless APs, whether SSID broadcast is on or off.
I can pick up 2 other APs besides my own.
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On-OffOK
@comcast.net
| It is your system. Try connecting without broadcasting the ssid, if it works without any connection issues, leave it off. It will not provide added protection from someone intent on hacking your system. But, if it makes you feel better that is all that matters. Make your decision from the advice given. | |
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UthinkURright
@comcast.net
| Re: Is there a way to not see a vulnerable router This is the most positive reply out of the whole bunch of negative responses. Ie; You are not getting the point, it does not provide any security. The op did not ask if it provides protection, the question was if it removes his ssid from the non-tech, non security conscious average user in his neighborhood. Answer, yes it will, geez was this so difficult to answer?
As this poster has said, try it both ways and determine which you prefer. If it works great with ssid off, great; if not turn it on. Problem solved. I turn mine off because there are way too many wireless users in my area. I do not turn it off for security reasons, only to prevent others system from looking at my system for access. BTW, I do not have any connection problems with my ssid turned off.
Give advice and allow people make a decision. Just because they do not take your advice, shootist does not make them less informed or less secure than you. | |
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Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
 ·Shaw
| Turning off your SSID does NOT improve your security status, in fact it could increase your risk. Any war driver who doesn't know how to use at least NetStumbler needs to pack up his computer and ship it back to wherever he got it from and likely should do the same with their driving license.
If you want to hide your wireless router then disable the wireless capabilities or unplug it. The very idea of a wifi router is not to hide so what you are asking is not really possible. If you wish to connect to a router and not have it broadcast its existence via a wifi signal then you need to switch to a wired only solution (or as I said disable the wifi functionality of your router).
Blake
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Bobcat
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Is there a way to not see a vulnerable router ? said by Link Logger :Turning off your SSID does NOT improve your security status, in fact it could increase your risk. Please explain how not broadcasting the SSID would increase the risk (assuming that WPA was already enabled). I don't see any downside, except that others in the neighborhood looking for a clear channel wouldn't know what channel you're already using.
I have my SSID turned-off, and I can connect with WinXP just fine.
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Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| Re: Is there a way to not see a vulnerable router said by Bobcat :Please explain how not broadcasting the SSID would increase the risk (assuming that WPA was already enabled). I don't see any downside, except that others in the neighborhood looking for a clear channel wouldn't know what channel you're already using. I have my SSID turned-off, and I can connect with WinXP just fine. It doesn't increase the risk (although it can give inexperienced users a false sense of security), but it doesn't offer any additional security at all.
Passive detection tools like kismet can still pull the SSID, channel #, and client mac addresses "from the air", despite the fact that the AP isn't broadcasting the SSID. Your average script-kiddie with a copy of Netstumbler, however, likely won't see it, although some APs still respond.
Also, it obfuscates the process of associating with the AP for some client/AP combinations, especially with WZC. Your specific instance must be just luck, since I usually see that WPA/WPA2+SSID broadcasts turned off usually spells an increased amount of headaches.
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"Some people never see the light till it shines thru bullet holes." -Bruce Cockburn
I'm testing Gmail's spam filters: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com
Spam: 8800+ messages currently using 268 MB (11%) of my 2442 MB | |
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cacroll
Eventually, Prozac becomes normal
Premium
join:2002-07-25
Martinez, CA
| said by Bobcat :said by Link Logger :Turning off your SSID does NOT improve your security status, in fact it could increase your risk. Please explain how not broadcasting the SSID would increase the risk (assuming that WPA was already enabled). I don't see any downside, except that others in the neighborhood looking for a clear channel wouldn't know what channel you're already using.
When you turn your SSID off, your clients have to work harder to associate with the AP, and they're broadcasting the SSID (not as a beacon, but still it's out there) as they do. This increases the amount of traffic too. ICSA Labs has a pretty detailed whitepaper.
»www.icsalabs.com/html/communitie···ding.pdf
If you turn off your SSID, any wardriver detecting you (and any one with any skill will) may think you're more interesting.
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Cheers,
Chuck
MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
PChuck's Network | |
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smokincrack
@comcast.net | Re: Is there a way to not see a vulnerable router Turn off your ssid and become more interesting to wardriving. What a crock of bull, where do you get this crap? Is this your own personal method at hacking your neighbors systems? If you can not make a response with facts don't reply. | |
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Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
·Shaw
| said by Bobcat :(assuming that WPA was already enabled) First running at least WPA fixes a whole pile of security problems surrounding wifi, if you have it, USE IT, if not, GET IT. I can't believe there are still vendors selling wifi without at least WPA.
So we will assume the target is running WEP or less. What access point will a client connect to, all other things being equal(ie spoofed), an access point which is broadcasting the SSID or one that isn't? How hard is it to find and then spoof the SSID? How hard is it to find and spoof the SSID Mac Address? So what happens if I spoof all this information and then send out forged 802.11 disassociation messages, which access point will the clients re-attach to, mine or yours (as far as they can tell we are identical, except I'm broadcasting, your not)?
WEP is bad, get over it and get at least WPA as it fixes a ton of security problems within WEP. WPA and up defend against this type of attack. WPA and WPA2 incorporate a signed message integrity check which will sense the forged frames and drop them.
Blake
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yeti34
RC Onroad racin
join:2001-04-12
Salt Lake City, UT
| The unsecured router is just that, unsecure. They will in no way have any effect on your secured router. All they will see if you have SSID enabled is that you have a secured network and they will not be able to access it. I see this all the time in my neighborhood, there seems to be a few people that have not secured theirs routers and I could access them, but don't. This is just the nature of wireless, if it bothers you just stick with hard wires and turn the WiFi off. | |
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