dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| reply to Thaler
Re: Still no reason for DRM stuff.
said by Thaler  :said by Insder :Releasing a patch to make it visible still keeps it there, and doesn't make a hidden DRM rootkit right. I got a better fix for Sony. How about I buy your CD, open it, and when it doesn't function on a limited-user rights account, I return it as a defective product? No offense, but if I can't rip your CD to un-DRMed MP3s compatible with my MP3 player, then the entire CD line is useless to me as a consumer. Let the retail chains take the massive amount of defective product returns back to Sony and deal with them. Unfortunately stores usually have a pretty strong policy on open music and software cd's. I had a similar incidence at fry's. I bought a DVD ripping package (321studios.com) which needed to be activated online but their site said 'due to pressure from the MPAA we are no longer activating any more copies of 'that software'. there was nothing about the online activation on the package and because the software was opened, the store manager refused to refund my money and he was firm on the fact. didnt even offer me store credit.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth |
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radarman
join:2005-06-01
Odenton, MD
| I believe you may have a legit right to "hack" that program. It wouldn't be the first time, either.
I have actually had to download "cracks" to run software that I have a legitimate (as in paid-for) license to use. X-win32, for example, restricts you to 3 reinstalls, even on the same hardware. Not knowing that, I blew through my 3 installs in less than 6 months. So, even though I still have a valid maintenance license, I had to go and download the crack. (In all fairness, the company did offer me two "freebie" activations - but I decided to go with the crack anyway - since I reinstall frequently)
Now, when I buy a product that requires "product activation" I immediately go and download the crack for it. It generally saves a lot of hassle down the road.
Yes, I do buy the software I use (or use a GPL'ed version) - I just don't feel the need to jump through hoops to prove it to the software developer. |
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Topmounter
Sent By Grocery Clerks
join:2001-02-20
Evergreen, CO
 ·Cox HSI
| reply to dvd536
I would have escalated that one immediately, starting with calling my credit card company and refusing the charge, followed by the normal other things, BBB, talk to his manager, etc.
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"If PCs are hard, then Macs are flaccid" -bb |
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Sweet Witch
Be the flame, not the moth.
Premium,MVM
join:2003-07-15
Gallifrey | And to add to this, I would have printed off the webpage and shown the manager that the software was useless to ANYONE.
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Never argue with an idiot. They’ll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. |
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| reply to radarman
said by radarman :I believe you may have a legit right to "hack" that program. It wouldn't be the first time, either. I have actually had to download "cracks" to run software that I have a legitimate (as in paid-for) license to use. X-win32, for example, restricts you to 3 reinstalls, even on the same hardware. Not knowing that, I blew through my 3 installs in less than 6 months. So, even though I still have a valid maintenance license, I had to go and download the crack. (In all fairness, the company did offer me two "freebie" activations - but I decided to go with the crack anyway - since I reinstall frequently) Now, when I buy a product that requires "product activation" I immediately go and download the crack for it. It generally saves a lot of hassle down the road. Yes, I do buy the software I use (or use a GPL'ed version) - I just don't feel the need to jump through hoops to prove it to the software developer. Copyright Law grants you the right to make copies for personal use, so yes you can hack the DRM if you want to make a copy for personal use only. such as MP3s/AACs for your Ipod, etc. the law gives you a rightfull access to these copies and the music industry cannot legally fully deny them.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to dvd536
said by dvd536 :there was nothing about the online activation on the package and because the software was opened, the store manager refused to refund my money and he was firm on the fact. didnt even offer me store credit. Heh, I wouldn't settle for anything less than a full refund on a DRM purchase. Especially in your case, if a store owner refused to take the product back, noting that the product itself is defective, I would leave the product in their care, and stop payment on the credit card for that charge. Let the store argue with your credit card company about "forcing" a sale of a defective product. |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to Kearnstd
said by Kearnstd :Copyright Law grants you the right to make copies for personal use, so yes you can hack the DRM if you want to make a copy for personal use only. Ah, but now you're violating DMCA by bypassing copy protection services! True, you have the right to make a backup copy for personal uses...but if that involves breaking copy protection, you're now skating on the illegal side of the law here. This would be the big issue behind why people are upset with the existance of DMCA today.  |
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cluth
join:2004-01-06
Anchorage, AK
| reply to Thaler
Ah...but what if he didn't pay by credit card? Out of luck. This is why I *ALWAYS* buy things with my credit card.
Note: if a credit card company denies your dispute on a matter like this, go back to the booklet of Visa/MC/AmEx/Discover benefits that came with your card. Oftentimes there will be many extras, one of which may be a return guarantee. If the store refuses to take your return, this service may pay for the return. It's often handled by a separate entity than your credit card's issuing bank, though, so you'll have to look up and call a separate phone number. |
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Fatal Vector
@sfldmi.ameritech
| reply to Thaler
Of course, you COULD just hook up a plain old CD player to your sound card and record in .WAV to your hard drive and then convert to MP 3. This is, of course, the fatal flaw in DRM, since there are oodles of recorder programs and the CD would have to work with regular CD players.
It is, perhaps, a harder way to do it, but, in the end, if one wants it bad enough...And, the added bonus is the DRM crap is stripped off the recording. |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| said by Fatal Vector :
Of course, you COULD just hook up a plain old CD player to your sound card and record in .WAV to your hard drive and then convert to MP 3. This is, of course, the fatal flaw in DRM, since there are oodles of recorder programs and the CD would have to work with regular CD players. True, I know there are ways to defeat DRM, but that doesn't mean I have to accept it as a consumer product. If I have to arrange that kind of conversion, just to get to use the product in the way I want, I'd call that defective, and issue an expedient return back to the retail chain. |
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koolman2
Premium
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK
2 edits | reply to Thaler
Nope. The DMCA cannot hinder or modify any other law set forth before.
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"I wonder if other dogs think poodles are members of a weird religious cult." -Rita Rudner |
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hpguru
Curb Your Dogma
Premium
join:2002-04-12
| reply to dvd536
Perhaps you should have uttered the magical words "State Attorneys General". I have never had a problem returning opened software or hardware when it was defective or incompatible in some way.
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iamsomeone
@stmarytx.edu | reply to Fatal Vector
isnt hooking up a CD player to your sound card also circumventing copyright protection? (albeit in another manner) Wouldnt this also technically be illegal due to the DMCA? |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to koolman2
said by koolman2 :Nope. The DMCA cannot hinder or modify any other law set forth before. They're not...they just interfere with the way backup technologies work today. (ie. you try and back up a DVD sans decrypting) Look at DVD Decrypter and DVD Shrink, which have essentially caved into industry pressure, thanks to the DMCA. Hell, the no-autorun "hack" inventor was to be charged w/ DMCA violations, for bypassing copy protection for MP3 ripping/home backup purposes.
The DMCA is alive and well, thanks in part that it doesn't explicitly modify our "fair use" rights. However, it's implementation very much so throws a kink in the procedure for home-backup purposes. |
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koolman2
Premium
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK
·GCI.net
| It does, though. We are legally allowed to make a single copy for our own use. The DMCA states that you can't get past encryption, but that interferes with the original law, so it's null and void.
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"I wonder if other dogs think poodles are members of a weird religious cult." -Rita Rudner |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| said by koolman2 :The DMCA states that you can't get past encryption, but that interferes with the original law, so it's null and void. Well, that's something one of the DVD-Backup software companies needs to ride out to court. However, if I recall, many so far have either settled, or weren't successful alltogether. |
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