Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA
1 edit | "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem Ok NOT solved, same problem but I do think it has something to do with both the DHCP in the Z5 and the 3COM NIC used in the C series Dell notebooks.
Ok I must make emends.
After using a desktop with a 3COM NIC and the most recent driver for the card I successfully got the the Z5 DHCP to update the IP address.
I setup a Linksys SR41 using first 10.10.0.4 as the routers IP and handing out IPs in that range. With my Dell C610 connected to it I got 10.10.0.100. I then unplugged the cable from the SR and connect one coming from the Z5. The IP changed on the notebook to the correct Z5 range and the correct static DHCP IP. I then set the SR to 192.168.0.254, which is what my office DHCP server IP is, and got 192.168.0.100 on the C610. I then unplugged from the SR and plugged in the cable from the Z5. IP stayed the same, 192.168.0.100, and I had to do a repair and then got the correct IP. It was then I started a OLD desktop someone gave me a week ago and that I have just installed 98SE on with a 3COM NIC. Connecting the DT to the SR I got 192.168.0.101 and then connected it to the Z5 and the IP changed to the Z5 range, 192.168.1.110. That got me thinking about DRIVERS. I had the most recent driver for the 3C905C-TX family cards so I update the drivers on the C610 and NOW when I connect to the SR I get the x.x.0.100 and then when connecting to the Z5 the IP changes to the correct IP for the Z5. So this whole time it was the Dell driver that I had installed.
So anyone else seeing this same thing look on the NIC manufactures site for the newest drivers for your NIC and install them.
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Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS | Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem solved You need to spend more time in the wireless networking forum, tis standard fare for troubleshooting!! A week at funchords remedial school for wifi wankers. ;-P | |
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 | Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA | Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem solved Just how would I know it was partly a driver problem. It did it on 3 notebooks and every time I connect to the office LAN the IP is updated to the correct range.
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Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS | Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem solved Clairvoyance not required, adhering to sound (tried and true) practices is within the grasp of mere mortals. | |
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Eric_T
join:2004-03-22
Belgium
| Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem I doubt the 3Com nic has anything to do with the problem. The DHCP bug is present in both Z-5 & Z-35 (firmware 3.64 and later) and in the P653-H (V3.40(OA.4)).
Every day I am typing "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" regardless of the laptop I'm using (Dell D600, IBM Thinkpad T23 or Thinkpad X40).
My P653 and Z5 have a different internal subnet for the LAN segment and whenever I switch between the two I have to do the ipconfig thing on every single machine in the house, with nic's ranging from Intel's Pro 10/100 to Etherlink III and Broadcom's gigabit cards.
I am generally a very satisfied Zyxel customer, but the fact that this stupid issue had now been around for 6-10 months is really getting on my nerves ! Rather than getting this resolved it seems to be spreading to every device for which Zyxel releases a new firmware !
Especially on the Prestige 653 series that is frustrating, because the 3.4 0A.4 firmware introduces the DHCP bug and doubles the nr of VPN tunnels (and adds support for certificates, DMZ and static DHCP) at the same time... | |
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| Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA | Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem Well Eric I'm glad I'm not GOING NUTS alone. I even see it in the Z2.
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dslpartner
join:2005-02-18 | Anybody gotten a packet trace of it? | |
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| Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA | Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem I will tonight when I get home from work. OK OK OK???????
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA | bbarrera had one in an old thread. | |
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| dslpartner
join:2005-02-18
| Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem said by jig  :bbarrera had one in an old thread. But according to bbarrera it is not a problem with the beta for this release firmware.
So the question is if he and shootist have the same issue.
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA | well, not for him.. he was going to redo the trace to double check but hasn't. probably busy. | |
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Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS | Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem Very busy from my correspondance... Best if shootist captures his data. | |
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| | Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA
| Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem I plan on setting up 3 PCs, 2 notebooks 1 with the 3COM 3C920 (3C905C-TX compatible)(The Dell C610) integrated chip 1 with a Linksys Homelink HPNA/Ethernet PC card adapter (A IBM TP1400) and a desktop with a PCI 3COM 905 card, and do captures from all three switching between a Linksys SR41 and the Z5. The SR will have a IP of 192.168.0.254, same as my office LAN IP, and the Z5 with 192.168.1.1. This is where I have had the problem, I.E. when the NIC has a IP in a near/similar IP range. If I use a 10.x.x.x or 172.16.x.x IP on the other router the Z5 seems to reassign the correct IP to the PCs every time but I might also setup a third router with one of those ranges just to test. Now It's time to make some cables to do all this.
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bbarrera
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-23
Sacramento, CA
clubs:
 ·SureWest Internet
| Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem The zw5 is being used at my day job (software startup) and we recently leased office space in Silicon Valley. We share office space with other startups and unfortunately we share a T1 and are behind NAT so no VPN yet (I installed zw5 after 10 hours at a trade show). As I normally work from home, testing zw5 is problematic at the current time. I'll be down there today and Thursday, will update firmware and try setting up VPN for remote access. I've got to talk with network folks to get permission to run wireless and VPN.
As of 2 weeks ago, no DHCP problems with 2 Apple PowerBooks (normally on 10.0.1.0/24 Apple Airport DHCP) and 1 Dell WinXP Pro notebook (normally on 192.168.110.0/24 Linux DHCP). That was with beta firmware that was released prior to 4.00(WZ.2)C0. | |
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| | | | Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA
| Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem Well I don't see the problem when going from a 10.x.x.x to the default Z5 range. It is when it is something in the 192.168.x.x range but then last night when I did the test with the other desktop the Z5 DID assign the correct IP to it after it was connected to a 192.168.0.x router. This whole thing leaves me scratching my head and pounding on my forehead. The real funny, not really, part of all of this is NO matter where I take my notebook and connect it to a LAN it ALWAYS gets assigned a proper IP in the range of the LAN I'm connecting to except when I take it home to the Z5. %$#@@@*&.
I'm also going to check if maybe it's something to do with the Static DHCP assignments in the Z5 because that other desktop that DID get a IP change from the Z5 is NOT setup with a static DHCP assignment. It just takes whatever the Z5 hands out. In fact I'm leaning in that direction and would like to hear from the others that have posted about this problem if all there notebooks/PCs are using Static DHCP assignments.
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bbarrera
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-23
Sacramento, CA
clubs: | Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem Notebook @ home office (Linux static dhcp) = 192.168.110.88
Notebook @ remote office (Zywall 5) = 192.168.112.x
The zw5 is a basic setup (NO static dhcp assignments). | |
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| | | | | | Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA | Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem That confirms part of my suspicion, NO Static DHCP!!! I think I may be on to something.
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Brano
I hate Vogons
Premium,MVM
join:2002-06-25
Burlington, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem I've just brought my laptop from work to home.
I've put it to suspend at work and later plugged to my home network running ZyWall5 with static DHCP entry for my laptop.
The IP got renewed automatically as expected. This did not work prior XD.1 firmware.
From my point of view the DHCP bug is gone. | |
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| | | | | | | | dslpartner
join:2005-02-18
| Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem said by Brano :I've just brought my laptop from work to home. I've put it to suspend at work and later plugged to my home network running ZyWall5 with static DHCP entry for my laptop. The IP got renewed automatically as expected. This did not work prior XD.1 firmware. From my point of view the DHCP bug is gone. Would you mind getting a packet capture next time you do this, so we can compare it to the packet capture Shootist will get when it fails.
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The real downside of GIT may be that _my_ way of doing things is quite possibly very rare. But it clearly is the only right way. The fact that everybody else does it some other way only means that they are wrong. -Linus | |
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| | | | | | | | Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA
1 edit | Well from MY point of view it isn't. What is your IP range at work and at home?? Are they the same first 2 octets with different 3rd and forth octets. If the first 2 octets are different, 10.x or 172.16 as apposed to 192.168, that doesn't count, I win. Really the problem occurs when the first 2 octets are the same, at least from what I've seen.
I have NO problem getting the correct IP from the Z5 when the notebook has any other IP address then 192.168. If the notebook has a IP of 10.x.x.x the Z5 DHCP updates the notebook to 192.168.1.104. If the notebook has a IP of 172.16.x.x the Z5 update the notebook to 192.168.1.104. If the notebook has a IP of 192.168.0.64, work LAN IP, the Z5 DOES NOT update the notebook to the 192.168.1.104 IP. It just leaves the .0.64 IP and moves on.
I'm headed home. I'll post back in about 3 hours.
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Brano
I hate Vogons
Premium,MVM
join:2002-06-25
Burlington, ON | Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem The first two octets are different.
I'll test it with same octets later tonight. | |
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| | | | | | | | | OGalati
join:2005-08-19
Argentina | Shootist, sorry for the stupid question, but since sometimes you were working with class B IP addresses, are you sure the mask in the Z5 DHCP Server is /24 (255.255.255.0), not /16 (255.255.0.0)? | |
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Brano
I hate Vogons
Premium,MVM
join:2002-06-25
Burlington, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
4 edits | Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem Shootist seems to be right. If the first two octets are the same the DHCP does not work properly.
I've done this test:
- configured my ZyWall2 as 192.168.1.0/24
- got my laptop on it and obtained an IP address using ipconfig /release /renew
- unplugged the laptop and plugged it to my ZyWall5 configured as 192.168.10.0/24
- the IP didn't get renewed | |
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| | | | | | | | | Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA
| said by OGalati :Shootist, sorry for the stupid question, but since sometimes you were working with class B IP addresses, are you sure the mask in the Z5 DHCP Server is /24 (255.255.255.0), not /16 (255.255.0.0)? Yeah it's 255.255.255.0. Not sure you could even use the 255.255.0.0 mask with the 192.168.x.x range. I think it is hard coded not to so you can only have 254 clients using that IP range.
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| | | | | | | | | Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA
| Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem You're welcome and thank you for reporting it. I just fired up the C610 I take back and forth to work after I disabled/removed the static DHCP assignment for it and the IP updated right away. So it is definitely tied to the Static DHCP feature. Could be because I am assigning IPs inside the DHCP server range instead of outside it?? But when you check the DHCP table it allows you to check a box TO put that MAC/PC in the static DHCP assignment??
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
| Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem i thought static dhcp was supposed to remove the availability of an assigned address whether or not the host with the mac was active or not. and i also thought that it was supposed to assign ips only within the dhcp server range.
your current problems seem exactly like what i would expect to happen if you had assigned static dhcp ips outside your dhcp server range.... some kind of little hiccup.
let me get things straight. when a host with a mac in the static dhcp list tries to acquire an ip address, but has come directly from another subnet within the same class b subnet, then the zywall doesn't respond to the request for an address.
further, this process works if the last dhcp assigned address was either outside the same class b subnet, or within the same class c subnet?
have you tested if the other router assigns an ip in the same "c" subnet that the z5 works through its issues and gets the static ip thing right when reconnected?
why do NICs remember their last ip, and why/how do they broadcast this when they ask for a new dhcp ip? I think this was answered in another thread, I just don't remember why...
anyway, maybe we've found the bug. it seems like a classic special case bug, but i can't quite get my head around it. it seems like something to do with maybe using the web interface while adjusting static dhcp settings, or maybe with how the static dhcp code keeps other dhcp clients from taking the assigned mac... it's as if they read in the broadcast previously leased ip and then push it into a memory location that gets checked against some rules that don't understand how an ip in the same class b (but not class c) subnet and with a registered mac could be requesting an ip here and now, and then hangs the dhcp handshake. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA
| Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem said by jig :i thought static dhcp was supposed to remove the availability of an assigned address whether or not the host with the mac was active or not. and i also thought that it was supposed to assign ips only within the dhcp server range. Yes it removes that IP address from being assigned to any other MAC by the DHCP server. It reserves it for the MAC it is assign TO.
YES and NO. Some router will only allow reserved IPs to be inside the DHCP range some only allow it to be outside the DHCP range, M0n0Wall only allows you to assign reserved IPs outside the DHCP range. I think the Z5 allows both inside and outside the range.
said by jig :your current problems seem exactly like what i would expect to happen if you had assigned static dhcp ips outside your dhcp server range.... some kind of little hiccup. My range is NOT the default, starting at .1.32 and going up, mine starts at .1.100.
said by jig :let me get things straight. when a host with a mac in the static dhcp list tries to acquire an ip address, but has come directly from another subnet within the same class b subnet, then the zywall doesn't respond to the request for an address. I think it responds but it doesn't force the change. In the logs it has entries that say "DHCP assigned x.x.x.x to 00:00:00:00:00:00" but it never really does. This is something for someone that knows more about all this to figure out.
said by jig :further, this process works if the last dhcp assigned address was either outside the same class b subnet, or within the same class c subnet? Class A, B, C,??? YES if the PC has a IP with the first 2 octets different then the Z5 successfully updates the PC to the correct IP. Never tried it with the first octet the same and the last 3 different, I.E. 192.5.x.x.
To be honest I never tried it with a IP in the same subnet with only the last octet different. In any event I could care less whether it did or did not change the IP of the PC in that case because as long as the PC had a IP with all the same octets, and as long as the last octet was unique (not being used be another node), you could connect to it and from it to the rest of the LAN and internet.
said by jig :have you tested if the other router assigns an ip in the same "c" subnet that the z5 works through its issues and gets the static ip thing right when reconnected? No I have not
said by jig :why do NICs remember their last ip, and why/how do they broadcast this when they ask for a new dhcp ip? I think this was answered in another thread, I just don't remember why... Lease time. As it shows in the ethereal files the NIC does broadcast "I have this IP".
What would happen is the NIC would go from x.x.0.x to 0.0.0.0 and then when it got a response from the Z5 it would go back to x.x.0.x instead of the Z5 forcing it to take the x.x.1.x IP. Or at least that is the way I see it.
said by jig :anyway, maybe we've found the bug. it seems like a classic special case bug, but i can't quite get my head around it. it seems like something to do with maybe using the web interface while adjusting static dhcp settings, or maybe with how the static dhcp code keeps other dhcp clients from taking the assigned mac... it's as if they read in the broadcast previously leased ip and then push it into a memory location that gets checked against some rules that don't understand how an ip in the same class b (but not class c) subnet and with a registered mac could be requesting an ip here and now, and then hangs the dhcp handshake. YES we have found a bug.
It has NOTHING to do with using the web interface. The web interface was NEVER open when the tests were run. Changes were made and I logged off the Z5 to start the tests. No I was not using one of the test PCs to make changes to the Z5.
If the MAC is removed from the static DHCP assignment list the Z5 does update the IP correctly, EVERY TIME.
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
| Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem said by Shootist :YES we have found a bug. It has NOTHING to do with using the web interface. The web interface was NEVER open when the tests were run. Changes were made and I logged off the Z5 to start the tests. No I was not using one of the test PCs to make changes to the Z5. If the MAC is removed from the static DHCP assignment list the Z5 does update the IP correctly, EVERY TIME. sorry, i didn't mean that you were doing something weird or strange in your tests, i meant that the special case code that i think this bug seems to be related to might have been something to try to deal with the "special case" of someone being logged into the web interface and trying to assign a different static dhcp ip, or something. they coded a special case to cover some situation (the web interface is just a guess, it has to be something about being in the same class c subnet), but they f-ed it up by checking against the wrong address or mask, or checking against it at the wrong time.... something, some rule that they kluged together.
in other words, if i was a zyxel programmer, that's where i'd look. | |
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| Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA
| Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem said by dslpartner :Home yet ?  Not until 5-6-7 tonight.
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| | dslpartner
join:2005-02-18 | Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem Thats about umptin time zones from where I am at the moment. | |
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Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS | Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem Anybody with enough money to send dslpartner for a one-way trip to the moon?  | |
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Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA
| Ok here's what I did
I setup 3 PCs, 2 notebooks 1 desktop (one of the notebooks could not run ethereal, it is running 98SE and for some reason was missing a file, so I replaced it with a Dell i8200), both notebooks are running XP Pro, 1 with SP2 (i8200 with 3COM) 1 with SP1 (Second C610 I have with 3COM), desktop is running 98SE.
Setup Static DHCP for all, the 2 notebooks were already setup for this and I setup the desktop for static also.
Used a Linksys BEFSR41 as second router/DHCP server with a IP of 192.168.0.254 and DHCP range starting at .100
Started Ethereal on the C610 while it was connected to the Z5 with a IP of 192.168.1.109.
Disconnected the cable from the Z5 and connected one from the SR. IP changed to the range of the SR with .100 as the last octet.
Reconnected the cable from the Z5 and IP never changed from the one assigned from the SR until I repaired the connection.
Started Ethereal on the i8200 while connected to the Z5 with IP of .1.107 (normal static DHCP assignment). Switched cable to the SR and got a IP in the SR range, .0.xxx. Switched back to the Z5 and again the IP stayed the same as it got from the one it got from the SR until a repair of the connection.
I then turned off the Static DHCP assignment in the Z5 for these 2 notebook and ran the tests again.
Followed the same procedure and this time the Z5 successfully assigned a IP in the range of the Z5. I ran this test twice on each notebook.
So it seems it is NOT necessarily the DHCP server in the Z5 BUT the combo of the DHCP server and using a static DHCP assignment.
Sorry for not including the desktop but the results were the same for it.
Here are the ethereal captures. Sorry for not filtering them I forgot how.
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dslpartner
join:2005-02-18 | I will post something clever soonish, but I wont be home until monday, so it might take that long :P | |
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| Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA | Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem And just what does that mean. I've never been known to be clever!! Rude, a little overbearing and sarcastic Yes, clever No.
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Hank
Its all relative
Premium
join:2002-05-21
Burlington, WV
1 edit | Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem By the authority bestowed upon me by Wolf Blizter, Rush Limbuagh or some obscure government individual, you are now certified as a Clever individual of the highest magnitude. | |
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| | | Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA | Re: "UPDATE" DHCP on Z5 Problem Ha Ha Ha thank you. | |
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Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
1 edit | Excuse me for a bit, I need to go shopping for the usual,,, humble pie and crow! | |
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Eric_T
join:2004-03-22
Belgium
| I can confirm Shootist's test on the Prestige 653-H : the problem only exists in the combination of DHCP renewal + Static address assignment.
As soon as I got rid of the static DHCP for my laptops, the problem went away. I'd still like to see the actual bug fixed, but at least this is an acceptable workaround for most of my customers (so I can finally, after almost a year's wait start upgrading the firmware on all the P653's) | |
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