maxusa
Premium
join:2004-05-05
USA
| reply to jig
Re: Zyxel wireless router with FIOS 5meg/2meg
Regarding SMB needs:
•SMBs are still price-sensitive and complexity-averse. They rarely buy into L2 switches, let alone L3. We rarely see managed switches used, only in heavy IT shops, or multi-department midmarket customers (closets). But this can be our biased experience and perception. Anyone seen different?•In perimeter network topologies, we need at least 2 firewalls: one facing WAN, and one facing LAN. The DMZ with public servers is in between. This is still preferred in some cases to the ZyWALL approach. Gigabit speeds can be used here.•In load balancing situations, dual 50+ Mbps WANs aggregate to 100+ Mbps on LAN. Gigabit territory again. I'd like to see Gigabit speeds (100+ Mbps) in ZyWALLs, we can use 'em today. |
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Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA | reply to maxusa
Bump to see next page. |
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Mem
join:2002-01-03
USA
 ·AT&T Southeast
| reply to maxusa
I have to agree with maxusa  from what I see within businesses in this area (NY). Residential has also been stepped up recently for cable customers-at home we get 15mbps/2mbps for $45 and can go to 30mbps/2mbps for an additional $10. It's been announced that next summer a new tier of 50mbps will be offered (and business use of this tier will be symmetrical)
The faster speeds are here and the mass market lead time will probably be very short. Those having products available to handle these speeds will grab the lions share of these end users and it could be difficult to make headway against the manufacturers perceived as premium, innovative hardware providers. |
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
| reply to maxusa
maybe we got off on a tangent...
SMBs generally don't need managed switches for the same reason they don't need Gb to the WAN, or really anywhere in the LAN. no bang for the buck.
SMBs seem to be more inclined to move towards putting their DMZ services off-site for availability reasons. what's left is an office lan with some VPN requirements to the off-site location. we might be talking about different flavors of SMBs, but i've experienced a pretty wide cross section and none needed (or wanted to pay for) Gb anywhere. running backups over the network would be faster (not a routing or firewall issue), but day 2 day operations didn't come close to needing it. and running firewall-dmz-firewall-lan doesn't sound like a simple SMB setup to me.
load balancing isn't needed, generally, for SMBs that aren't trying to run a web biz on-site (see above). failover, yes, load balancing no. and i don't know of many SMBs that want 100Mb or more for their WAN connection. most make due with a t1. again, maybe we have different ideas of what an SMB is. |
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Kirby Smith
join:2001-01-26
Derry, NH
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to DavidJWood
said by DavidJWood :Whilst I won't word it in the same way as others, I do wish to join in on the questioning as to why FTTH needs any kind of special support. Verizon's FiOS, probably the most common FTTH system at the moment, is an EPON system - Ethernet over PON. There's no ATM involved in these systems, which is one reason why they're relatively cheap to implement. What's so special on the CPE side of a FTTH install that needs special support in a router, especially in an FTTH system that is based around Ethernet? David Some here may wish to spend some time at the Verizon FiOS forum. There they will read that Verizon BPON (broadband PON) is APON (ATM PON) plus TV and voice spectrum additions. Agreed that to first order, the ATM aspect is irrelevant because the ONT converts the connection to standard Ethernet. Negotiation for up time slots and other ATM arcana is hidden from the user.
kirby |
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DavidJWood
Premium
join:2001-10-12
UK | In that case, I apologise; references I had read indicated that FiOS was EPON, but I was clearly mistaken.
David |
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Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
| just maybe be in England its EPON and in America its APON.
and in Japan its Ippon (which is the same as two Wazaris) and I bet you thought I was going to say Nippon!  |
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Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA
| reply to Kirby Smith
said by Kirby Smith :said by DavidJWood :Whilst I won't word it in the same way as others, I do wish to join in on the questioning as to why FTTH needs any kind of special support. Verizon's FiOS, probably the most common FTTH system at the moment, is an EPON system - Ethernet over PON. There's no ATM involved in these systems, which is one reason why they're relatively cheap to implement. What's so special on the CPE side of a FTTH install that needs special support in a router, especially in an FTTH system that is based around Ethernet? David Some here may wish to spend some time at the Verizon FiOS forum. There they will read that Verizon BPON (broadband PON) is APON (ATM PON) plus TV and voice spectrum additions. Agreed that to first order, the ATM aspect is irrelevant because the ONT converts the connection to standard Ethernet. Negotiation for up time slots and other ATM arcana is hidden from the user. kirby With all that said about EPON/APON/BPON and apologies where needed I have one basic question.
The port that is installed in the (Inside the) home or business for internet access is what? Ethernet? If Ethernet what is so different from this Ethernet port then ANY other type/style Ethernet connection. And why would one brand/make/model router be any better then any other brand/make/model giving that all can handle the high connection speeds.
This is where the whole discussion started. Why is one better then the other for a FTTH connection?
--
Shooter Ready--Stand By BEEP ******** |
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bbarrera
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-23
Sacramento, CA
clubs:
·SureWest Internet
| I haven't researched the various FTTH schemes. It seems to me that all you need is an Ethernet router capable of routing at advertised speed, which in my case is up to 20M each direction. The earlier discussion was confusing because it discussed wireless datarates and QoS, when my real question was about routing/firewall performance. |
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cjax
join:2004-01-11
Parsippany, NJ
| Thanks for someone speaking out with good information. The issue is not if the router or CPE equipment has different technology to support FTTP/FTTH. It's how the current technology is used in a way as to not hinder the speed capable with FTTP/FTTH. What may users of products don't realize is that just b/c you have a 10/100 port on your router, that doesn't mean the router is capable of keeping up with those speeds.
Case and point ---> »www.netgear.com/pdf_docs/2005011···trix.pdf
(look at WAN to LAN speeds)
I'm not trying to compare netgear to ZyXel to router xyz b/c they are all different products. What I am trying to say is that many times the WAN to LAN speed has many factors such as processor speed, firewall packet processing, etc. So although company X may have a very good all around product, it may not be able to keep up with the speeds for FTTP/FTTH. This was very evident when Verizon chose to use Dlink VDI-604 and VDI-624 router for their deployment for their FiOS service. The VDI-604 and VDI-624 are just Verizon versions of the standard D-Link DI-604 and DI-624. It has been confirmed that the standard out of the box D-link router could not achieve the 15/2 speeds but the VDI series D-Links routers could. No change in technology but, a change in firmware and maybe a different processor. 5/2 speeds should be fine with almost any home router.
Also to clear up some info - APON is based on the ITU G.938 International Standard, which supports 64:1 passive optical splitters (Non-North American Standard). BPON on the other hand supports up to 32:1 passive optical splitters. Each customer channel is end to end encrypted, not sure if this is the case with APON. BPON is basically the specification that Verizon, BellSouth, and SBC came up with for FTTP/FTTH. Having a spec common to all, provided overall lower cost of common equipment and components.
All of these technologies use ATM for traffic management. |
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Kirby Smith
join:2001-01-26
Derry, NH | Thanks cjax. I hadn't read that A/B distinction before.
kirby |
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