JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs: | "Unlimited" is a BEAUTIFUL Word
Unfortunately, most services have limits. So why not just specify what the limits are? What's the big deal? |
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tpeng
join:2003-01-30
Forest Hills, NY
clubs: | ...Because forthright honesty is the greatest enemy of marketing  |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | reply to JTRockville
Yeah,
That's one of the reasons I'm currently with DSL Extreme. I don't have Commiecast caps (I use my connection for constant VPN to work), and I'm not (or at least don't appear to be) throttled, and its relatively inexpensive. |
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs: | Ignorance is bliss  |
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Shriyash
Sungazer
Premium
join:2005-02-23
PuNe, InDiA
1 edit | reply to JTRockville
because when we see how limited these self-decided limits are, we will suddenly realise that they are trying to rip us off, thats why. they already know it, but we dont, and they dont want us to know either.
ignorance is bliss for a reason.
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When you gaze deep into an Abyss,.....the Abyss also gazes into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900) |
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AtomicZero
join:2004-11-24
West Palm Beach, FL | reply to tpeng
Honesty is actually best marketing tactic.People LOVE knowing what they are getting into, and appreciate the fact that you told them. It's only the enemy to the small minds of corrupt Marketing reps who can't wrap their heads around this concept. |
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rudnicke
Premium
join:2004-10-23
Rantoul, IL | reply to tpeng
Actually, people today really have no concept that lying or not disclosing the truth is no big deal.
If you can lie and get more customers, then it's ok in their eyes. |
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KAD Imaging
Just Shoot It
Premium
join:2002-09-21
Hialeah, FL
 ·AT&T Southeast
| reply to tpeng
said by tpeng  :...Because forthright honesty is the greatest enemy of marketing Bingo!
TRULY UNLIMITED DSL
Vs.
MOSTLY "Umm..limited" Cable
Which would you choose?
--
-CK
Stress is when you wake up screaming and you realize you haven't gone to sleep yet...
Like Cars? Racing?? Visit my site! SportCompactMiami.com |
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entropy1
Premium
join:2002-09-25
 ·Millenicom
 ·Comcast
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
4 edits | Cable...because I don't have a problem using all I want and I like cable better after having both.
I have WAY fewer problems with cable and faster speeds too!
As far as I know, Comcast doesn't send threat letters anymore. This is something dsl users seem to forget when they try to pull their "holier connection than thou" crap on here. Has anyone been capped by Comcast in the last year?
Edit: Typo |
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
| reply to KAD Imaging
said by KAD Imaging :said by tpeng :...Because forthright honesty is the greatest enemy of marketing Bingo! TRULY UNLIMITED DSL Vs. MOSTLY "Umm..limited" Cable Which would you choose? Now this is where I have to get off. Truly unlimited DSL that actually delivered promissed speeds is one thing and as a matter of fact, a rare thing.
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Improve your wireless signal! |
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BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Canada
| said by DaDogs :said by KAD Imaging :said by tpeng :...Because forthright honesty is the greatest enemy of marketing Bingo! TRULY UNLIMITED DSL Vs. MOSTLY "Umm..limited" Cable Which would you choose? Now this is where I have to get off. Truly unlimited DSL that actually delivered promissed speeds is one thing and as a matter of fact, a rare thing. you also forget that you have to be within a certan distance to get DSL.
my cable is uncapped/unrestricted has higher speed and costs less then most of the stuff i see in the states, why ?, because the company has a huge advantage over AT&T, it's mostly rural where i am. |
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ke4pym
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC | reply to KAD Imaging
CABLE. I don't want to pay extra for the phone line tax for a line I don't want, need or will otherwise use. |
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jkreuzig
Whatever
join:2001-07-11
Yorba Linda, CA
| reply to DaDogs
Now this is where I have to get off. Truly unlimited DSL that actually delivered promissed speeds is one thing and as a matter of fact, a rare thing. Probably not as rare as you might think. As long as you are within distance, and chose the CORRECT provider, getting unlimited DSL at promised speeds is not a problem.
Remember, it's all about the details. Read up on the details of what sort of DSL you are getting and you can easily get what you are looking for. |
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Mactron
el camino Real
Premium
join:2001-12-16
CM94sv
| reply to ke4pym
said by ke4pym :CABLE. I don't want to pay extra for the phone line tax for a line I don't want, need or will otherwise use. DSL. I don't want to pay extra for a Cable subscription I don't want, need, or be punished an extra cost for not having.
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If only the Verizon CSRs worked this well. |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs:
 ·VOIPo
| said by Mactron :said by ke4pym :CABLE. I don't want to pay extra for the phone line tax for a line I don't want, need or will otherwise use. DSL. I don't want to pay extra for a Cable subscription I don't want, need, or be punished an extra cost for not having. No, you are just forced to pay for that POTS line from the xLEC that you do not want. If you are not lucky enough to have someone like Covad or Speakeasy and the like to provide you naked DSL.
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FWD#: 223611 |
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entropy1
Premium
join:2002-09-25 | Then you pay out the ass anyway with those companies. |
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
| reply to BonezX
said by BonezX :said by DaDogs :said by KAD Imaging :said by tpeng :...Because forthright honesty is the greatest enemy of marketing Bingo! TRULY UNLIMITED DSL Vs. MOSTLY "Umm..limited" Cable Which would you choose? Now this is where I have to get off. Truly unlimited DSL that actually delivered promissed speeds is one thing and as a matter of fact, a rare thing. you also forget that you have to be within a certan distance to get DSL. my cable is uncapped/unrestricted has higher speed and costs less then most of the stuff i see in the states, why ?, because the company has a huge advantage over AT&T, it's mostly rural where i am. I didn't forget that DSL is distance sensitive. I am an ISP and have delivered both SDSL over bare copper and resold Verizon DSL.
Cable doesn't have the kind of distance limitation that DSL has but being rural isn't always helpful. The cable carrier in our area has more than 200 subs going thru a T-1 gateway. Clearly speed is relative
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Improve your wireless signal! |
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
| reply to jkreuzig
said by jkreuzig :Now this is where I have to get off. Truly unlimited DSL that actually delivered promissed speeds is one thing and as a matter of fact, a rare thing. Probably not as rare as you might think. As long as you are within distance, and chose the CORRECT provider, getting unlimited DSL at promised speeds is not a problem. It is not difficult to get the link between you and the ILEC to run at advertized speeds. It is frequently a problem to get the thruput you are promissed thru the ILEC's gateways.
said by jkreuzig :Remember, it's all about the details. Read up on the details of what sort of DSL you are getting and you can easily get what you are looking for. Aye, understood. Good advice. Wireless is becoming a more viable option every day. My hope is to take down my DSL circuit and go to a wireless circuit to our tower.
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Improve your wireless signal! |
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KAD Imaging
Just Shoot It
Premium
join:2002-09-21
Hialeah, FL
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to ropeguru
said by ropeguru :No, you are just forced to pay for that POTS line from the xLEC that you do not want. If you are not lucky enough to have someone like Covad or Speakeasy and the like to provide you naked DSL. No, you are just forced to purchase a cable product inferior to satellite in every way and twice as expensive for less digital content. 
(sure, cable will give ya um...bundled hsi for $20 extra a month. Total cost: Crapcast 81ch basic package $48. Crapcast umbundled hsi +$20 = $68. Basic BS pots no add-ons $19. BSFA +$45 = $64 = DSL WIIIINS....PERFECT! lol )
(oh yeah, BSFA is UNlimited instead of Crapcasts UM...limited service including 2GB newgroup cap. I think my NB Pro has been downloading for 6 days including today straight and I could go to Europe til winter and not worry about a damn thing when I return!)
--
-CK
Stress is when you wake up screaming and you realize you haven't gone to sleep yet...
Like Cars? Racing?? Visit my site! SportCompactMiami.com |
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Industry_Pro
@rr.com
 from:
John Galt
| reply to AtomicZero
Well, I don't know. My company hasn't used the word "unlimited" since, I think it was about 1997 or so. In the dialup business, we used to advertise "unlimited active use" meaning, you had to be sitting there. We had restrictions against using any software that acted as a keep alive to get around the 10 minute idle timeout. The timeout had to be 10 minutes becuase some email programs default to a 10 minute time between checking mail. So if your timeout is 15, some customers, even thought they did nothing to cause it, will never idle out.
At any rate, people only heard the word "unlimited" and forgot the "active use" part of it. There were often claims that they had nothing on their computer that was causing it to stay online. They would also say that "unlimited" meant you could stay on 24/7.
So we just dropped the word and have never used it again and I have to say, before you sit in judgement of the "evil" marketing types, try working the sales desk when caller after caller after caller would ask if the service was "unlimited" and we would say "No, it's 300 hours." You would just hear a kind of sigh or a silence, and they would say in a disappointed voice, "Oh - I thought it was unlimited. OK thank you!" and hang up. Which actually was OK with us, in our case - we pretty much had as many modems as we were ever going to buy and were out of growth mode pretty early on.
If you wanted to get out there and compete for customers, it would be wise to find a way to use the word "unlimited" - certainly you cannot be the only honest guy and have all your competitors laugh at you because you are telling the truth - and no one with sign up with you as a result.
In the DSL/Broadband/high speed access business I really kind of agree with the user who said, "It's all a scam." Because in a big, huge way, it is indeed all a scam. Huge numbers are mentioned for dowload speed. Yet, the slow upload is ignored in advertising and marketing. The speed is "70 faster than a modem" (roadrunner) only when you are downloading. They advertise, let's say 1.5 megabits for ADSL but in fact, that is not a guaranteed bit rate and all traffic is at most, "best effort". They fail to mention the level to which you are *sharing* that 1.5 megs or 5 megs or what have you. It's not like everyone has a personal fractional T3 from their house to the backbones and router meeting rooms. But you would never know that looking at the advertising that is being put out there. People are shown in the advertising doing all kinds of simultaneous high bandwidth things, when in fact if a high percentage of customers actually did all that, the network would just start to melt down and crawl. They don't mention that part of it.
There is a great deal of confusion in the marketplace as a result. Services with guaranted bit rates and SLA's are not valued in great volume by the market. They just aren't. Most people and even companies want a cheap "best effort" type service, then it's OK most of the time and they get to gripe about something the other percentage when it sucks.
So, in large part I blame the human nature of retail customers for the use of the word "unlimited" - they demand it against all rationality. It's not a rational or reasonable word as they've pointed out many times on BBR. And, I do think it's basically all a scam, but I also think a scam is what people want to hear. I truly think that most customers would rather gripe about their account not being truly "unlimited" than buy an account that advertises that it is not "unlimited." Also it should be pointed out, as the consumers and the FCC and all are apparently giving total encouragement to the market going to ONLY the cable company or ONLY the local Bell - well you can just expect the scams to continue unabated. These people know how to do it, and how to stay just on the edge of illegality. At a minimum they know how to judge risk where they can just pay off any fine that results as a cost of business. And since you will have no choice between ISP's - other than the cable companies and the Bells, there is no hope of anyone opening the marketplace to honest talk about how things really are.
I might add, I believe that the "broadband bill of rights" stuff where they government takes over ISP's and tells them how to run their business - I believe that is going to damage any chance of having any independent ISP's left in a few years. Other than backbone guys, and VPN guys, I mean. No last mile consumer type independents. The people behind this want to force the Bells and Cablecos to carry their VoIP traffic without toll, basically giving them a free ride on the network. But what the idea does is make all ISP's identical - every ISP carries the same exact traffic as every other ISP.
THAT will be the true death-knell for the independents. There will be no way to differentiate yourself from Bell except through pricing. If Bell and the MSO's would start jacking with their networks and making all kinds of channelized, filtered psuedo-'internet' access and disallow competitive VoIP and what have you, (assuming for argument that's even possible) then the independents would have a real selling point for their services. But if every ISP is just like every other ISP, well, it's a race to the basement. |
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