TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| reply to bent
Re: There will be more prosecutions: law is clear
said by bent  :I think that the majority of people who leave their WAPs open wouldn't have the first clue that someone was using their connection, much less how to document it so that it would stand up in court. If they get the offender with the laptop in his hand and before he can erase any traces, they have all the proof they need. Also, they can subpoena the ISP records and have further proof there.
But, obviously, you will catch very few in the act. But the point is highly publicising the consequences of those you do catch, thereby scaring off many many more.
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ylen131
join:2000-02-09
Canoga Park, CA
| said by TK Junk Mail :said by bent :I think that the majority of people who leave their WAPs open wouldn't have the first clue that someone was using their connection, much less how to document it so that it would stand up in court. If they get the offender with the laptop in his hand and before he can erase any traces, they have all the proof they need. Also, they can subpoena the ISP records and have further proof there. But, obviously, you will catch very few in the act. But the point is highly publicising the consequences of those you do catch, thereby scaring off many many more. subpoena isp records? hmm and what are they going to show? When you connect to router, your outbound ip is same as person that is next to the router, so i am not sure how isp help in prosecution |
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john1290
join:2003-12-06
Reynoldsburg, OH
| reply to TK Junk Mail
I live in the US. There are always about 3-5 wide open wireless routers around me that I can pick up inside my house. (Most with default admin passwords) If I wanted to be REALLY sneaky I could spoof their MAC address and do whatever I wanted/go anywhere and be totally safe. But I only use my powers for good.  |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
 ·Packet8
·Cox HSI
| reply to TK Junk Mail
said by TK Junk Mail :If they get the offender with the laptop in his hand and before he can erase any traces, they have all the proof they need. That assumes that the person can't disconnect or remove the wireless card quickly. Once that's done, it becomes hard to prove the person illegally connected.
Also, they can subpoena the ISP records and have further proof there. ISP records won't help if the person is browsing from behind a router because the IP address is shared among multiple computers.
But, obviously, you will catch very few in the act. But the point is highly publicising the consequences of those you do catch, thereby scaring off many many more. And that's basically what it boils down to... These arrests are more showboating to force ceterrance than anything. |
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manfmmd
Premium
join:2003-01-14
Earth
clubs:
edit:
July 22nd, @12:33PM
| said by bmn :ISP records won't help if the person is browsing from behind a router because the IP address is shared among multiple computers. You are forgetting about the index.dat for IE and browser cache for other browsers that will 'tell' where you have been on the internet.
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secundum umbra EGO specto lux lucis |
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ylen131
join:2000-02-09
Canoga Park, CA
| said by manfmmd :said by TK Junk Mail :ISP records won't help if the person is browsing from behind a router because the IP address is shared among multiple computers. You are forgetting about the index.dat for IE and browser cache for other browsers that will 'tell' where you have been on the internet. you are assuming cops can figure out whos internet wifi you were using, if go outside my parents office i have access to 10 of them, hard to track whos belong to who |
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manfmmd
Premium
join:2003-01-14
Earth
clubs:
| That's true, in the end, it's a waste of time considering that there are more important things that cops should be doing, but that has never stopped them from giving me a ticket in the past. 
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secundum umbra EGO specto lux lucis |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Personally, I think they need to make some stiff examples of some of the ones doing it now. So, I see it a very worth-while cause for the police.
If you think about it, this plays into home land security issues. Some people may think I am over reacting, however, if you wanted to cause terror or what ever these people want to do, open Wi-Fi is an even better place to use the internet than an internet cafe where you have to phyiscally sit and risk getting found.
Again, is it over reaching? We never thought that air planes would take down the trade towers too...
Along with getting people who use these access points, I think there should be a drive to get people to secure them as well for the same reason. |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
·Packet8
·Cox HSI
| reply to manfmmd
said by manfmmd :said by bmn :ISP records won't help if the person is browsing from behind a router because the IP address is shared among multiple computers. You are forgetting about the index.dat for IE and browser cache for other browsers that will 'tell' where you have been on the internet. That only proves you went to said sites, but does not prove what connection you used to get to those sites.
Also people have utilities installed that elininate that data, not to mention there are other ways to hide your tracks (for example, using a VPN to another location, etc.). |
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CrazyFingers
join:2003-10-01
Columbia, MO
| reply to fiberguy
Are you serious??
You see this as a worthwhile cause for the police...
Rather than, oh, I don't know...trying to police crime-ridden neighborhoods, apprehend murderers, rapists, drunk drivers, and other actually dangerous crimes...mmmkay.
And I am thinking about it, and it doesn't have a damn thing to do with Homeland Security, Mr. Goebbels. If you wanted to cause terror, I seriously doubt a lack of an unsecured wireless router would stop you dead in your tracks.
(You know, terrorists could staple coded messages onto telephone poles. FOR THE CHILDRENS, tear down those poles!!!!)
And yes, we did think that planes could take down the towers, several years prior to it happening. I guess it was all those unsecured wireless routers that let them waltz into the country, get pilots training, drivers licenses, and plane tickets?
You, sir, flunk the internet.
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Burrow owl...burrow owl... |
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Boricua65
Oye, chico
join:2002-01-26
Puerto Rico
| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy :...Some people may think I am over reacting, however, if you wanted to cause terror or what ever these people want to do, open Wi-Fi is an even better place to use the internet than an internet cafe where you have to physically sit and risk getting found... If that was true, then many cities and municipalities wouldn't set up wireless hotspots. In front of city hall, here in downtown Oakland, the Mayor had the city set up a free wireless zone. There's even a cafe near this wi-fi hotspot that offers free wireless as well. Unfortunately, if somebody wanted to do damage, whether terrorist or an individual, they will not matter. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
|  reply to CrazyFingers
Yea, I am serious or I wouldn't have posted it. Duh!
Sorry, but I don't subscribe to the "this crime is worth more than another" theory. I think all crimes are worth while.
I am also someone that thinks proactively rather than reactively as well.
Do YOU mean to tell me that people aren't looking for new ways to get around barriers? You REALLY think I am the only one that has this thought? Come on.
It's clear, after reading your post, that you didn't read mine clearly. It's also clear that you think all is well in the world.
Ad for your "yea, we did know that planes would be used" - I guess if people did more to look out for that, they may have been stopped too.
You, little boy, need to chill out. Back down unless you want a flame war bud. (what are you, one of those libbys that think they know everything in this world? And that the collective knows better? Tell me why the government is going to hollywood to help them think of possible ways that people can slip through the cracks or new ways they can hurt us? Because they try to think outside the box - MORON!) |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to Boricua65
Yea.. and don't you think that those HOTSPOTS log mac addresses and other information such as sites visited that can later be used if need be? Don't you think that if something was done illegal that if they found a suspect that they could trace it back to a computer if one was found?
Please read my whole post next time and see that I did mention cyber cafe's and such. Those are managed areas and can trace evidence. Personal WAPs are not. |
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tapeloop
Light, sweet triceratops.
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Airstrip One
| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy :You, little boy, need to chill out. Back down unless you want a flame war bud. (what are you, one of those libbys that think they know everything in this world? And that the collective knows better? Tell me why the government is going to hollywood to help them think of possible ways that people can slip through the cracks or new ways they can hurt us? Because they try to think outside the box - MORON!) Too bad BBR doesn't have a BAWK BAWK BAWK Chicken emoticon for you to add to your...erm, stimulating post. 
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Copyright infringement is illegal. Murder is illegal. Therefore, file sharing is murder. |
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slicemaster
join:2001-12-14
Newbury Park, CA
| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy :Personally, I think they need to make some stiff examples of some of the ones doing it now. So, I see it a very worth-while cause for the police. If you think about it, this plays into home land security issues. Some people may think I am over reacting, however, if you wanted to cause terror or what ever these people want to do, open Wi-Fi is an even better place to use the internet than an internet cafe where you have to phyiscally sit and risk getting found. Again, is it over reaching? We never thought that air planes would take down the trade towers too... Along with getting people who use these access points, I think there should be a drive to get people to secure them as well for the same reason. If you want to go the nation security route then you would be worried about all who don’t secure there access points, not just the idiots who don’t know better. Whether they don’t know any better or they simply leave the AP open for public use, according to your theory, all unsecured WiFi hotspots would be a threat to national security, and based on that then the hotspot owner should be the one in trouble with the law, you know, for providing a gateway for terrorists. Luckily that is not the case because if it were then there would be laws against having open APs. And IMHO those who leave there access points open for use by others (mine is open for public use) are not guilty of anything, and last I check 2.4Ghz is a public frequency band and if no security is circumvented to access a wireless network then I don’t think anything wrong has been done. Like I have said before, if the AP is not secured then it is one of two things, open for public use, or a crime of stupidity on the part of an idiot. Either way, you cant tell which were purposefully left open for public use and those that were not secured due to either laziness or stupidity on the part of the hotspot owner, therefore we should err on the side of freedom, people are free to not secure there APs (both on purpose and mistakenly) and others a free to access them as long as not security is circumvented. No one should be getting arrested or fined for accessing an open network (no security in place) on a public frequency band. This is just ludicrous. If security was circumvented (WEP, WPA, etc.) then nail the guy to the wall, but if it was wide open then no crime was committed.
Slice |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to tapeloop
Unless you have antying usefull to add to the discussion, skip the post. Your editorial isn't necessary.
I can't believe that the babies here get all bent out of shape because someone posts a though.. wow! Shows the mentality here. (Sorry, I didn't check with the borg collective before posting a message that conforms)
Now where's that Sarcasm Emoticon or better yet, the finger. Lighten up! |
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tapeloop
Light, sweet triceratops.
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Airstrip One
| said by fiberguy :Unless you have antying usefull to add to the discussion, skip the post. Your editorial isn't necessary. I can't believe that the babies here get all bent out of shape because someone posts a though.. wow! Shows the mentality here. (Sorry, I didn't check with the borg collective before posting a message that conforms) Now where's that Sarcasm Emoticon or better yet, the finger. Lighten up! You challenging me now too?
I had no problem with the discussion until you pulled that "hey you calm down or step outside" junk. I'm sorry that you think "getting bent out of shape" over "thoughts" is inappropriate, but the sooner one drops the name-calling the sooner I'd go back to giving their arguments some credibility.
Plus I just thought it was kinda funny how angry people get around here. Zell Miller school of debate I'm sure.
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Copyright infringement is illegal. Murder is illegal. Therefore, file sharing is murder. |
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