TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
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join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
 ·Comcast
edit:
July 22nd, @11:44AM
|  There will be more prosecutions: law is clear
More and more there will be prosecutions both in the US and elsewhere for using people's wireless routers/APs without their permission. And as more and more people and also the police become aware of the laws prohibiting this, prosecutions will be more successful. When actually caught in the act, it becomes easier to get evidence because the impounded laptop will provide the evidence of guilt.
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ylen131
join:2000-02-09
Canoga Park, CA
edit:
July 22nd, @11:40AM
| law may be clear, but gl catching them
In usa i dont' think they can search your laptop just because you stand outside of the building, this happen in uk |
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bent
not broken
Premium
join:2004-10-04
Longmont, CO
clubs: | reply to TK Junk Mail
I think that the majority of people who leave their WAPs open wouldn't have the first clue that someone was using their connection, much less how to document it so that it would stand up in court. |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| said by bent  :I think that the majority of people who leave their WAPs open wouldn't have the first clue that someone was using their connection, much less how to document it so that it would stand up in court. If they get the offender with the laptop in his hand and before he can erase any traces, they have all the proof they need. Also, they can subpoena the ISP records and have further proof there.
But, obviously, you will catch very few in the act. But the point is highly publicising the consequences of those you do catch, thereby scaring off many many more.
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ylen131
join:2000-02-09
Canoga Park, CA
| said by TK Junk Mail :said by bent :I think that the majority of people who leave their WAPs open wouldn't have the first clue that someone was using their connection, much less how to document it so that it would stand up in court. If they get the offender with the laptop in his hand and before he can erase any traces, they have all the proof they need. Also, they can subpoena the ISP records and have further proof there. But, obviously, you will catch very few in the act. But the point is highly publicising the consequences of those you do catch, thereby scaring off many many more. subpoena isp records? hmm and what are they going to show? When you connect to router, your outbound ip is same as person that is next to the router, so i am not sure how isp help in prosecution |
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john1290
join:2003-12-06
Reynoldsburg, OH
| reply to TK Junk Mail
I live in the US. There are always about 3-5 wide open wireless routers around me that I can pick up inside my house. (Most with default admin passwords) If I wanted to be REALLY sneaky I could spoof their MAC address and do whatever I wanted/go anywhere and be totally safe. But I only use my powers for good.  |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
 ·Packet8
·Cox HSI
| reply to TK Junk Mail
said by TK Junk Mail :If they get the offender with the laptop in his hand and before he can erase any traces, they have all the proof they need. That assumes that the person can't disconnect or remove the wireless card quickly. Once that's done, it becomes hard to prove the person illegally connected.
Also, they can subpoena the ISP records and have further proof there. ISP records won't help if the person is browsing from behind a router because the IP address is shared among multiple computers.
But, obviously, you will catch very few in the act. But the point is highly publicising the consequences of those you do catch, thereby scaring off many many more. And that's basically what it boils down to... These arrests are more showboating to force ceterrance than anything. |
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manfmmd
Premium
join:2003-01-14
Earth
clubs:
edit:
July 22nd, @12:33PM
| said by bmn :ISP records won't help if the person is browsing from behind a router because the IP address is shared among multiple computers. You are forgetting about the index.dat for IE and browser cache for other browsers that will 'tell' where you have been on the internet.
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ylen131
join:2000-02-09
Canoga Park, CA
| said by manfmmd :said by TK Junk Mail :ISP records won't help if the person is browsing from behind a router because the IP address is shared among multiple computers. You are forgetting about the index.dat for IE and browser cache for other browsers that will 'tell' where you have been on the internet. you are assuming cops can figure out whos internet wifi you were using, if go outside my parents office i have access to 10 of them, hard to track whos belong to who |
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manfmmd
Premium
join:2003-01-14
Earth
clubs:
| That's true, in the end, it's a waste of time considering that there are more important things that cops should be doing, but that has never stopped them from giving me a ticket in the past. 
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richdelb
2008 Calder Cup CHAMPS
Premium
join:2003-01-22
Algonquin, IL
| reply to TK Junk Mail
Seems to me that if you sat outside someones house and tried to break into a SECURED system (sniffing packets, etc.) you'd be breaking the law, but for UN-Secured systems (open hot spots) you'd have a hard time applying the law.
When you purchase a wireless router it generally comes with some type of instructions on how to secure it, so how can someone claim the didn't know how to do it?
If it's left open and unsecured, it seems to me reasonable that the owner of that hotspot had intended it to be that way.
If the wireless router came without instructions, or without warnings that if you don't secure it your service can be used by others, then you many have a different story.
Secure it, or don't use it. (unless you wish it to be a free hotspot to the world)
Pretty simple, really. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to manfmmd
Personally, I think they need to make some stiff examples of some of the ones doing it now. So, I see it a very worth-while cause for the police.
If you think about it, this plays into home land security issues. Some people may think I am over reacting, however, if you wanted to cause terror or what ever these people want to do, open Wi-Fi is an even better place to use the internet than an internet cafe where you have to phyiscally sit and risk getting found.
Again, is it over reaching? We never thought that air planes would take down the trade towers too...
Along with getting people who use these access points, I think there should be a drive to get people to secure them as well for the same reason. |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
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·Cox HSI
| reply to manfmmd
said by manfmmd :said by bmn :ISP records won't help if the person is browsing from behind a router because the IP address is shared among multiple computers. You are forgetting about the index.dat for IE and browser cache for other browsers that will 'tell' where you have been on the internet. That only proves you went to said sites, but does not prove what connection you used to get to those sites.
Also people have utilities installed that elininate that data, not to mention there are other ways to hide your tracks (for example, using a VPN to another location, etc.). |
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CrazyFingers
join:2003-10-01
Columbia, MO
| reply to fiberguy
Are you serious??
You see this as a worthwhile cause for the police...
Rather than, oh, I don't know...trying to police crime-ridden neighborhoods, apprehend murderers, rapists, drunk drivers, and other actually dangerous crimes...mmmkay.
And I am thinking about it, and it doesn't have a damn thing to do with Homeland Security, Mr. Goebbels. If you wanted to cause terror, I seriously doubt a lack of an unsecured wireless router would stop you dead in your tracks.
(You know, terrorists could staple coded messages onto telephone poles. FOR THE CHILDRENS, tear down those poles!!!!)
And yes, we did think that planes could take down the towers, several years prior to it happening. I guess it was all those unsecured wireless routers that let them waltz into the country, get pilots training, drivers licenses, and plane tickets?
You, sir, flunk the internet.
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shadowstalker
@12.153.x.x | reply to ylen131
actually that is not quite true i recommend you read the patriot act 1 and 2 jawhol herr bush |
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Boricua65
Oye, chico
join:2002-01-26
Puerto Rico
| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy :...Some people may think I am over reacting, however, if you wanted to cause terror or what ever these people want to do, open Wi-Fi is an even better place to use the internet than an internet cafe where you have to physically sit and risk getting found... If that was true, then many cities and municipalities wouldn't set up wireless hotspots. In front of city hall, here in downtown Oakland, the Mayor had the city set up a free wireless zone. There's even a cafe near this wi-fi hotspot that offers free wireless as well. Unfortunately, if somebody wanted to do damage, whether terrorist or an individual, they will not matter. |
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Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| reply to richdelb
Me choosing not to secure my house, car, bike, or wallet does not give you, or anyone else, the right to "borrow" it. If it is not yours and you know it is not yours, then leave it alone. It is as simple as that.
Don't start with the.. "well if they didnt want you to this or that" arguement. If they dont explicitly tell you that you can, than you can't. Ignorance and stupidity, though many of you have a valid case for this, is no excuse. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
|  reply to CrazyFingers
Yea, I am serious or I wouldn't have posted it. Duh!
Sorry, but I don't subscribe to the "this crime is worth more than another" theory. I think all crimes are worth while.
I am also someone that thinks proactively rather than reactively as well.
Do YOU mean to tell me that people aren't looking for new ways to get around barriers? You REALLY think I am the only one that has this thought? Come on.
It's clear, after reading your post, that you didn't read mine clearly. It's also clear that you think all is well in the world.
Ad for your "yea, we did know that planes would be used" - I guess if people did more to look out for that, they may have been stopped too.
You, little boy, need to chill out. Back down unless you want a flame war bud. (what are you, one of those libbys that think they know everything in this world? And that the collective knows better? Tell me why the government is going to hollywood to help them think of possible ways that people can slip through the cracks or new ways they can hurt us? Because they try to think outside the box - MORON!) |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to Boricua65
Yea.. and don't you think that those HOTSPOTS log mac addresses and other information such as sites visited that can later be used if need be? Don't you think that if something was done illegal that if they found a suspect that they could trace it back to a computer if one was found?
Please read my whole post next time and see that I did mention cyber cafe's and such. Those are managed areas and can trace evidence. Personal WAPs are not. |
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tapeloop
Light, sweet triceratops.
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Airstrip One
| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy :You, little boy, need to chill out. Back down unless you want a flame war bud. (what are you, one of those libbys that think they know everything in this world? And that the collective knows better? Tell me why the government is going to hollywood to help them think of possible ways that people can slip through the cracks or new ways they can hurt us? Because they try to think outside the box - MORON!) Too bad BBR doesn't have a BAWK BAWK BAWK Chicken emoticon for you to add to your...erm, stimulating post. 
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