Airplane777
join:2004-06-20
4 edits | WISP site survey poles ?
I was wondering what the latest ideas might be for obtaining and using telescoping or sectional poles for site surveys?
I would like to be able to temporarily mount a Rootenna or a panel antenna on a pole for signal testing in different parts of my neighborhood. Maybe a 30 or 40 foot pole.
I thought maybe someone may have come up with a pvc pipe system mounted to a car or van.
Thanks |
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polk5
join:2001-12-29
New Orleans, LA | »/nsearch?board···e+Survey |
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gammaone
join:2004-05-14
Clovis, CA
| reply to Airplane777
I bought a 36' telescopic pole from radio shack and a tripod. Works well enough but some of my smaller techs have a real hard time getting the pole (fully extended) and a radio TR-CPE200-19 vertical by themselves.
The pole was about $30 and the tripod was about $15.
Quick and fairly easy as long as there isn't a wind. I saw a tripod and pole (I think it was a small crankup) bolted into a back of a truck for even easier and faster setups. |
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Airplane777
join:2004-06-20 | Hi gammaone and polk5:
That Radio Shack pole sounds pretty good.
I might stop by Radio Shack today and check it out.
Thanks |
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nwn
Premium
join:2004-03-05
Centerville, IN | Lowes carries a Channel Master 30 telescope. Includes rings for guy wires if you need them.
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Scott |
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davidpaj
join:2002-04-22
| said by nwn  :Lowes carries a Channel Master 30 telescope. Includes rings for guy wires if you need them. I use this one, works nicely |
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Airplane777
join:2004-06-20 | reply to gammaone
gammaone:
I stopped by Radio Shack today, but the guy didn't seem to know anything about it.
Do you know the stock number of the 36 foot pole?
Thanks |
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Airplane777
join:2004-06-20
1 edit | reply to davidpaj
Hi davidpaj and nwm:
I assume you both use it for temporary mounting of WISP antennas for site surveys?
How do you temporarily mount it?
I have seen that some people use mounts, hooked to a trailer hitch, or some kind of contraption where the car rolls onto some kind of plate that the pole is mounted to.
I guess if the mount is pretty secure, maybe one guy can handle that 30 foot pole?
I have a van with a heavy duty trailer hitch on it and a roof rack. I'm trying to figure how to set up some kind of temporary mount using that to hold the mast you spoke of.
I saw this mast at Lowe's this afternoon, It seems you have to be on a tall ladder to extend the mast.
Thanks |
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jdmarti1
Jack
join:2004-06-15
Oilton, OK
| The downside to having something with your car or trailer is quite often the install is going to be on the back side of the house. Most homeowners aren't real interested in letting you drive around their yard. I would imagine you really need to do the survey close (within a few feet) of where the install will be. As for the Lowe's mast - buy the tripod with it - then you can walk it up from an extended position. I would like to find something like this in aluminum so it wouldn't weigh quite so much. Ultimate Support makes lighting stands out of aircraft aluminum, but they only go to 11 feet. I am trying to figure out how I can modify one of these. My pocketbook won't allow one of those cool $2500 rigs. 
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»magicwisp.com |
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Airplane777
join:2004-06-20
4 edits | Hi jdmarti1:
Come to think of it, you are right about the van being driven onto their yard.
I didn't see a tripod at Lowe's today. That must be some kind of monster tripod to hold this heavy 30 foot pole.
On the other hand, maybe a pole on my van would let me go to various places in the neighborhood, just to get an idea how far the signal will go. But knowing that ultimately I will have to go on a customers roof to be sure the signal gets there also.
Do most people just put the CPE and its built in antenna on the pole, and probably do a continuous ping? Also hopefully the CPE device will have some kind of signal strength indication. Are they the best two indicators of a WISP site survey.
Or, I could mount just an antenna by itself on top of the pole and use real low loss coax (like LMR 400 or larger) to go to the ground where my laptop and Orinoro Gold card are located? That seems the most practical way to do the site survey. I would just have to take into consideration the loss of the coax. That shouldn't be too difficult to do, knowing the loss per hundred feet or per foot.
Gee, if I did it that way, I could use my Orinoco Gold card to easily find the best positioning of the antenna...knowing that I will ultimately have to use a CPE with its antenna, in that same exact position. Hopefully the CPE with its built in antenna, can receive as well (or better) then my Orinoco Gold card on the long coax. The antenna I would use in the CPE and the antenna by itself on the pole, would naturally be matched up as best as best as possible (forward gain, front to back ratio, V & H beam width, etc.)
And my Orinoco Gold card will give me Signal strength, signal to noise ratio, packets sent and lost, etc (as long as my AP has the right chip set).
Again, hopefully the CPE device would have a better transmitter and receiver in it then my Orinoco Gold card. It's too bad that the CPEs can't give as much information as the Client Software that is on the Gold card.
I assume that in most cases a WISP CPE will not give Signal to Noise and Signal strength and packets sent and lost, like I get when I do hotel WiFi site surveys with an Orinoco Gold card could.
I imagine a CPE with only an Ethernet connection to the laptop will not be able to give that kind of information...probably just relative signal strength and maybe continuous pings to at least see if packets are lost or not.
So hopefully I will be able to get some kind of meaningful information of how to point the CPE for best signal reception, since I probably won't have good site survey software to use with it. Seems continuous pings and relative signal strength might be the best I can hope for when doing a site survey with a WISP CPE?
Thanks |
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gammaone
join:2004-05-14
Clovis, CA
| reply to Airplane777
The Radio Shack item number is 01-3190 and it has guy rings every 10 feet.
I'm not too sure about testing a link with one type of radio and trying to install another. I would suggest dedicating a setup (antenna and radio) of your preferred brand and leaving it attached to the pole (at least the mounting brackets) then when you have to test a signal just mount the gear back to its brackets. Most CPE gear is POE (Power Over Ethernet) so you can mount your radio right by your antenna and just run Ethernet back to your POE adaptor and your laptop.
As for identifying a solid signal, different radios come with different tools... and the various manufacturers display their signal strengths differently (I used to use all SB gear, now I use Mikrotik AP's and Tranzeo CPE's). I would suggest subscribing to the manufactures part-15 list and asking the people that actually use that vender's gear what they think is a good signal. For the ping test, we do a 1000 pings. If we get NO more than one or two packets lost.. its good.
jdmari1:
If you ever find one of those aluminum poles for a decent price please pass that info on!! |
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Airplane777
join:2004-06-20 | Thank you for that stock number. That will help.
I'll check further about using the actual CPE attached to the pole, if I can.
Thanks |
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VariableARK
join:2003-03-17
USA | reply to Airplane777
radioshack.com says it cant find that part number? |
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gammaone
join:2004-05-14
Clovis, CA | reply to Airplane777
doh!! too many sets of numbers on it.. 15-5067 is the correct number |
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uscomputing
join:2005-01-26
Buffalo, NY | reply to Airplane777
15-5067 just pulls up the manual for the item at radioshack.com. It says invalid SKU when I try to add it to my cart and there is no price listed. Any ideas? |
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nwn
Premium
join:2004-03-05
Centerville, IN
| reply to Airplane777
Truck Mount1 | 
Truck Mount2 |
I use a sB Outdoor and a 19dB grid for all sight surveys. I then calculate what antenna and radio to use.
My county has GIS maps available, so I get the latitude and longitude of the TV tower, or roof peak. I then use the tools at »gbppr.dyndns.org:8080/path.main.cgi to determine aximuth, up/down tilt, distance, etc. This one is nice, it even allows one to put in trees and buildings. I get that from the GIS map.
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Scott |
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Airplane777
join:2004-06-20
2 edits | Hi Scott:
Thanks for the pictures. Thats a neat idea...just using wood to go into your trailer hitch.
I see you just clamp the pole a little further up to the bar on your truck.
How high can you go with your pole?
What kind of telescoping pole do you use?
Which company is SB Outdoor? I don't know the wireless companies all that well yet. |
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Airplane777
join:2004-06-20 | reply to uscomputing
I looked in a Radio Shack catalogue and couldn't find it. Maybe it is not being sold any more. |
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Airplane777
join:2004-06-20
3 edits | reply to Airplane777
I found two of those 36 ft. masts at a local Radio Shack store. That stock number is a good number.
Now I have two and only need one...LOL. I guess if I don't need the other one, I can sell it.
I'm going to try to find one of those Thule hitches and just strap the mast to that. I don't think it will pull my car over.
That Radio Shack 36 ft. mast is a little heavy. But...
How the heck do I get that unwieldy thing in a vertical position to attach to a Thule hitch, once I fully extend it on the ground? I think some Thule hitches have a hinge to allow me to attach it to the hitch while it is horizontal, but it still is kind of heavy and unwieldy to push up in a vertical position.
Almost seems I need some kind of pully system.
I guess I will have to make sure I don't get too close to any wires...LOL. |
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Airplane777
join:2004-06-20
1 edit | reply to gammaone
Hi gammaone:
I bought two today for a little more then $40. I'll probably sell the othere one, if it turns out I don't need it.
Do you fully extend it on the ground and attach everything on the pole while it is horozontal and then push it up in a vertical position?
Once in a vertical position, are you saying you attach it to a tripod? That has to be some really large tripod for that tall and heavy pole. I'm just curious how you hold that pole vertical. I'm thinking of getting a Thule mount for the hitch on my van. I will have to move my van near the location of the antenna however.
I sure wish these things were aluminum...LOL. |
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