Gunslinger03
join:2004-07-09
Chesapeake, VA | Nice Speeds
Wow. 100Mbps symmetrical over VDSL2...that is amazing. Why again is fiber being rolled out? |
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webnetwiz
There's no place like 127.0.0.1
Premium
join:2004-09-22
Van Nuys, CA | Because fiber can do gig speeds in the future, and one copper pair won't. |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| reply to Gunslinger03
100mbps will be used up rather quickly when you want to stream multipe HD channels into your home, use VoIP telephony, and when your kitchen appliances are all IP-aware.
Fiber with DWDM, on the other hand, can eventually be upped to hundreds of gigabits or even terrabits per second without replacing the fiber. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to webnetwiz
People want it all right now but when the providers says to the consumer "open your pocket book" what do you say?
I thought so.
VDSL2 is a great option for the company in the current landscape of the industry. People say "why VDSL2 if fiber can do gig speeds?" If they could do gig speeds, then why not do it now? Why wait? People, it COSTS MONEY to put these speeds through the pipes. What, do you want to over power that little thing called the backbone?
People want everything! Hey, BROADBAND IS STILL NEW! Remember? What did you ahve 5 years ago? For many, it was still dial up! Let's get real.
Ask yourself this.. if you had the ability to run SBC or Charter, or Verizon even, would you do a large fiber deployment now? If it were me? NO! I would find th cheapest way to deploy the fastest speeds possible in the least amount of time. There is no real way to see into the bb future. Billions people! Billions of dollars to lay fiber. Everyone runs it, now what? Now every company has debt. To pay that debt off, they need paying customers; customers who will pay the price for a fiber line. From what I can tell in these forums, not many here would be willing to pay the REAL price of providing brandband services.
Ever wonder why there is a bundled price for bb service? It's because multiple product hits help subsidize the cost of actually deploying the service. Also, a company has to keep a customer an average of 18 months JUST TO BREAK EVEN!
You guys are asking too much for fiber right now. It's just too much too soon. In time, people will see fiber, but I don't think you will see it as a norm pipeline widespread for at least 25 years or so.
Now, you say fiber can do gig speeds and copper pair won't.. says you? We never thought that copper pair would do more than 28.8... even 56k.. when DSL rolled out, we thought that 1.5 and 15,000 feet would be the limit of that technolody. Proved many people wrong eh?
Anyone here that says "can't" or "won't" is a fool themselves. You don't know what technology could bring.
In all honesty, I think many people here live in a dream world and not reality.
One question to aks you all.. if 100mb came out, what are you willing to pay for it? and what would you expect for that money? My guess is that most people would hope that it was $20 a month and had an uptime of 99.9% (which far exceeds even business class service) |
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webnetwiz
There's no place like 127.0.0.1
Premium
join:2004-09-22
Van Nuys, CA
| reply to vpoko
You nailed it my friend! A company like Verizon can't think about rolling out VDSL2 and enjoy the technology for 5 years and then find that it no longer meets the demands. If you're a huge telecom company, you have to think ahead and be pro-active rather than re-active! Verizon is going to deploy fiber and be done with infrastructure for the next decade at least, and not worry about providing any type of HSI or IPTV or whatever, they're DONE! While SBC and Bellsouth will cringe along with ADSL2+, then maybe VDSL2, and keep spending money on aging copper and upgrades to DSLAMs that aggregate your copper pairs to a fiber link to their backbones. Fiber to the home was a right solution. Yes, it's more money spent now, but it's the return on your money not having to upgrade every few years. Someone at Verizon was thinking about the future, and not just looking good to the Wall Street or shareholders. The fact that they're rolling out FTTH in rich neighborhoods that can afford it, that's a whole different topic. |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
1 edit | reply to fiberguy
You make good points, but they're not related to the thread you're replying to.
The question wasn't "Why VDSL2 when we can have fiber?", the question was "Why fiber when we can have VDSL2?" |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | reply to vpoko
'100mbps will be used up rather quickly when you want to stream multipe HD channels into your home, use VoIP telephony, and when your kitchen appliances are all IP-aware.'
Then provision another twisted pair. Voila. |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
1 edit | reply to Gunslinger03
said by bogey780  :Then provision another twisted pair. Voila. How is this a better alternative to fiber? Eventually you're going to run out of pairs and need to trench new cable anyway. What about the higher maintenance costs of aging copper v. fiber? Just because something can be done doesn't mean it is the best option. |
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webnetwiz
There's no place like 127.0.0.1
Premium
join:2004-09-22
Van Nuys, CA
| Again, someone thinks reactively rather than proactively. There are so many issues with copper in the buildings, like interference, signal attenuation, etc... The only issue swith fiber is that it has to be installed delicately, that's it. Once you've installed it, tested it, you're done! There's no need for filters, POTS splitters and extra lines to spearate the signal. Fiber is just cleaner. |
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EnasYorl
Thieves World
join:2001-12-02
West
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Gunslinger03
said by Gunslinger03 :Wow. 100Mbps symmetrical over VDSL2...that is amazing. Why again is fiber being rolled out? BECAUSE, you can do a entire Video Lineup over FIBER today!
Verizon is going after CATV's video customers. Hight Speed Data is a bonus. |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
 ·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| reply to bogey780
What happens when those pair demands are so big that they have to run another copper cable down the road to keep up with demand ? Ahh yeah run another copper cable.
Nahh run fiber now upgrade the equipment at both ends and be done with it for awhile.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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quetwo
That VoIP Guy
Premium
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI
| reply to webnetwiz
said by webnetwiz :Because fiber can do gig speeds in the future, and one copper pair won't. This technology requires at least two pairs -- depending on the distance from the CO. This would at least double the number of wires required to run DSL to the modem. |
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Nik1108
VIP
join:2002-01-16
Nampa, ID | reply to BosstonesOwn
Because running copper is cheaper as it doesn't have to be 6ft deep in the ground like fiber. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to webnetwiz
"There are so many issues with copper in the buildings"
So you are running fiber to the phones too?
VDSL2 is a complement to fiber, and eventually that part of the local "loop" can even be replaced with fiber without starting over. This technology leverages existing infrastructure to deliver the goods now, not 25 years from now.
Verizon went straight to fiber mostly because they had to. Their outside copper plant is quickly dissolving from decades of mismanagement and deferred maintenance.
Try again. |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | reply to BosstonesOwn
At 100Mb/s there's gonna have to be a huge demand. |
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maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to webnetwiz
said by webnetwiz :Because fiber can do gig speeds in the future, and one copper pair won't. Not only that. A single fibre optic cable will be able to deliver 200 HDTV channels, 4 phone lines for the house, 1 Gbps Internet, Dedicated "small-band" connections to your alarm company and other services.... all through one cable.
Fiber technology also allows for much easier splitting of services on said cable, where your cable company leases part of it for TV and your ISP uses another part of it for broadband, if you choose to use different companies.
I don't foresee that possibility with copper wires. At leaast, it will be limited a lot more then fiberoptics.
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And i'm right. I'm always right, but this time I'm a little more right then I usually am. |
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vagabond
Truckin' Geek
join:2004-03-08
clubs:
| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy :People want it all right now but when the providers says to the consumer "open your pocket book" what do you say? I thought so. SO TRUE, people bitch about paying $26.99 for 256/256 DSL. LOL
Anyways I wonder if Qwest will look into this, they have regular VDSL in parts of Omaha, Phoenix and Denver. It would probably cost alot to change all the existing USAMS though. The reason that VDSL has not expanded at all in Qwest's territory is because it's not profitable enough.
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qwesttalk dot com |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| reply to Nik1108
said by Nik1108 :Because running copper is cheaper as it doesn't have to be 6ft deep in the ground like fiber. Nope , Next
Copper and fiber don't need to be trenched fios is lashing their fiber to copper that is in place at the moment and/or running it the same as copper.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| reply to bogey780
said by bogey780 :At 100Mb/s there's gonna have to be a huge demand. how so ? what if demand for 200 mbit becomes the norm ? 8 pairs to the home now ? at what point does the cabling become to cumbersome and stiff ? How many strands can you fit in one of the pole taps ? You gonna fit 800 strands for 100 people ? or What happens if they need gig e speeds ? 4000 strands for the single 100 person block ? At what point does it get to the saturation point.
Fiber has none of those issues.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here
| ...and what if they need terrabit speed? With current usage VDSL2 could handle anything people need.
You are arguing as if VDSL is the end technology. It's not. Not SBC, BellSouth or any Telco is arguing it is. They're arguing that it's the best way to get people the speeds they want and need quickly and without bancrupting the company. |
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