Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
3 edits | reply to hurl8
Race is already WON
Cable @ 15mbps per customer my ass! There is no way on current cable systems this will work. Sure a select few may see those speeds @ 5AM. Two years ago I uncapped my cable modem (set it to 100mbps down & up) and my actual speeds were in the neighborhood of 7mbps down 1.5mbps up. [no don't ask me how to do this, I got caught and had to go back to 768/128 - boy was that painful!]
Some cable FACTS (stolen from an FAQ here @ DSLR):
Homes passed per node can be anywhere from 100-2000 and subscription rate depends on competition, marketing, and system performance. Most cable companies design for 10-25% subscription rates for cable modem customers. So this means anywhere from 10-500 modem customers are connected per node in most cases, depending on local cable system design. Usually cable systems are designed so a single downstream port is split to serve several nodes.
DOCSIS 1.0, 1.1, & 2.0 can do about 27 mbps per downstream port using QAM 64 modulation and about 38 mbps using QAM 256 modulation. Upstream is limited to about 5 mbps per upstream port using DOCSIS 1.0, 10 mbps using DOCSIS 1.1, and 30 mbps using DOCSIS 2.0
Read that again... 10-1000 cable customers can share 27-38 mbps downstream bandwidth capacity! More likely this is 150 to 300 or more on most cable systems today.
Verizon FIOS on the other hand currently has 622mbps for up to 32 houses with their current BPON fiber technology. In a year they are slated to switch to GPON which has 2.4 Gbps downstream, 1.2 Gbps upstream, to each cluster of up to 32 homes.
GAME OVER. VERIZON WINS. THANK YOU PLEASE COME AGAIN.
(edit: removed flame bait) |
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markopoleo
join:2003-04-02
Bonne Terre, MO | Now if only you got YOUR facts right you might be believable |
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Smokey
I killed the Wabbit
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs: | reply to Jerm
Cox passes 750 homes on a typical node, and has the ability to split nodes very easily.
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pcscdma
Chocobo Chocobo Random Battle
Premium
join:2004-01-14
Winterset, IA
clubs:
| reply to Jerm
said by Jerm  : Usually cable systems are designed so a single downstream port is split to serve several nodes. That's the part that those cable systems will eventually have to upgrade in order to get any sort of consistency with high speeds. They can get 3 downstream channels per node. They can get 6 upstream channels per downstream channel. I haven't seen any proof here that a cable provider has even done 2 downstream channels. I'm not sure if that's because it's cheaper to split a node or they just feel like node splitting is a really cool thing to do.
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Posting .sig |
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Snickerdo
Premium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON
| reply to Jerm
said by Jerm :DOCSIS 1.0, 1.1, & 2.0 can do about 27 mbps per downstream port using QAM 64 modulation and about 38 mbps using QAM 256 modulation. Upstream is limited to about 5 mbps per upstream port using DOCSIS 1.0, 10 mbps using DOCSIS 1.1, and 30 mbps using DOCSIS 2.0 You're forgetting to take into account that there can be up to six channels PER NODE. That's 288Mbit/s down and 30-180Mbit/s upstream for a single node, which can be split if necessary. Not too bad when you're dealing with regular ol' coax.
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Bigot - Someone that has won an argument with a Liberal.
Yes, I CanChat. Can You? www.fiberal.ca |
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Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
1 edit | reply to Smokey
References...
I'll back up my claims, you now back up yours:
»Adelphia High Speed Internet »FAQ: Quicker primer on cable network's shared bandwidth.
(see links on bottom of FAQ for their references)
»www.isp-planet.com/cplanet/tech/···412.html
Smokeater, I understand the nodes can be split, but the equipment cost to do this isn't what I would call "very easy" - Cisco's aren't cheap you know!
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Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
1 edit | reply to Snickerdo
Does Cox have their network upgraded TODAY?
The last two replies I appreciate, because they are both very good points. Yes cable CAN go faster, but most current systems aren't making the necessary modifications to do so. Even though they can fit more channels, very few if any do so currently.
And thats my problem with Cox. Did they actually config their network to handle customers @ 15mbps or did they just raise the caps and now will let everything go to sh*t.
Capping bandwidth at 15mbps is no problem. Delivering and actual 15mbps reliably over a real customer base IS.
Sorry for the rant, its just that Charter had enough problems providing 3mbps/256kbps to me reliably. I can only imagine what would happen if they allowed 15/2 |
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the niTz
Premium
join:2004-07-05
Sahuarita, AZ
 ·Cox HSI
| reply to Jerm
Re: Race is already WON
actually on the cox network here in AZ cox techs that i know have told me they get a easy 10 down and 10 up with the Motorola hack, they even told me how to do it, but the thought of me loosing access and going back to vpn or dial up is a good enough incentive not to
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its official everyone in sahuarita is a spy u cant even post with out somebody calling the authories!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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manifest
bitches
join:2004-08-14
Hartford, CT | reply to Jerm
Re: Does Cox have their network upgraded TODAY?
They upgraded the NOVA cable system to DOCSIS 2.0, so yes they can give their customers that bandwidth. |
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Smokey
I killed the Wabbit
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs:
·Cox HSI
1 edit | reply to Jerm
Re: References...
If you are going to talk about a MSO's setup, it might help if you knew how they set up their network, not how another MSO's is set up. While basically the same, Cox lays much more fiber, and gets it closer to the home than you may think.
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Plvres crapvlas qvam gladivs |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
 ·Speakeasy
| said by Smokey :While basically the same, Cox lays much more fiber, and gets it closer to the home than you may think. Pretty much the entire system in Fairfax County (a.k.a, Northern Virginia) is fibre. The only copper component is from the line drawn off the utility box to the individual home.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to Jerm
Re: Does Cox have their network upgraded TODAY?
I Fairfax County, they've spent the past 5 years replacing all the trunk lines with fibre. Why? Because, if they didn't, they'd not be able to sell broadband, at all, here. There's just way too many other alternatives in Northern Virginia.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) |
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ms9723
join:2005-01-17
Springfield, MO
| reply to Jerm
Re: Race is already WON
every cable company is different in the fiber technolgies, cox is dedicated hub to node rings no node splitting,the main problem isnt # of people, though it stands as a problem it is the back end conection to ip backbone, fios anticapates about 32 homes per cluster but is more likely once service evolves into andvanced ip service (iptv, video, voip, the quality, not bad service, dedicated packet service for all ip products dividing services so no line loss for tv, internet and phone) between 40-120 homes on full luanch availability, @ around 10-15 mps per household on interent conectivity for midrange product still. not any diff than what they offer now, better ip infastructure, but no more real bandwith per home for downloading and surfing!!! p.s cox had a massive buildout for fiber rings throughout its areas, no good ip backbone, all leased access that is leased again to them, small data centers, and most of all because of the cost of fiber and rapid loss of customers to rbocs, ilecs and dlecs, satalite tv and all, they keepon lossing money!!!! go verizon, sbc, at&t and ip leadrs of todays ( the future in now, iptv,fios,fttn,ip everything!!!!)
almost forgot @ last report, comcast, the largest cable companie averages 500-710 homes per node, they have less fiber than coax, except where at&t built, more nodes split, more packet loss, and more peoblems with voip than any other company, my sister works in noc for them |
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Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
| reply to Smokey
Nice pic...
So lets see, take that "750/1000" homes per node. Assume they use all six channels @ 38mbps (=228mbps). Lets compare current technology:
Cox: 228mbps/750users = 0.3 mbps per user, much less if they use fewer channels.
Verizon: 622mbps/32users = 19.43 mbps per user (VZ says 32 houses is the max)
So Verizon is deploying over 64x the bandwidth per user. All I'm saying is which would you think is more likely to slow down at peak times?
Even if Cable upgrades their speeds in a year, VZ will be @ 2.4gbps per 32 houses which gives 75mbps per user. |
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ms9723
join:2005-01-17
Springfield, MO | my point excactly.............the telcos will win with fiber on an all ip infustructer, no amplifirers, no garbage!!!!! |
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Smokey
I killed the Wabbit
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs:
·Cox HSI
| reply to Jerm
That is homes passed, not homes served. My home is on a node with 748 homes passed, but only 129 use HSI (as of November).
Now to your idea that Cox is beaten, they really aren't. They are one of the first MSO's to deploy 1ghz+ overlay systems, and can easily use the added bandwidth for HSI, or gigaE over cable.
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Plvres crapvlas qvam gladivs |
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