pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| Sterilize and Jail the Parents...
... for not taking responsibility for ensuring real 911 access by using a POTS line. Vonage and other VoIP providers make it very clear that their 911 service is not the same as POTS-provided 911 service. The baby's death is partly the fault of the parents who didn't bother to fully research the potential problems with VoIP-based 911 service. You would think when you see a big red label on a web page explaining that 911 with VoIP has to be set up manually and that it isn't the same as POTS-based 911 service, one would think... hmmm.... is this the best thing for me?
Its idiots like these who will sue the US tech industry out of the country.
I know that once I have kids, the first thing I will do is get the cheapest POTS-based line (even as much as I hate the telegraph companies) just for proper 911 access should it be needed.
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Hey Fast Eddie... you're next! |
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Murray3
join:2001-03-06
Texas
| said by pnh102  :I know that once I have kids, the first thing I will do is get the cheapest POTS-based line (even as much as I hate the telegraph companies) just for proper 911 access should it be needed. Exactly what I have done. |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| reply to pnh102
I agree , people pass the responsibility to others in this country way to much. I foresee a lawsuit in which she will probably be paid very well, and vonage may be put into a hole for.
People wonder why so many companies are off shoring and doing all they can to cut costs. Lawsuits and stock holders are a major reason why it has to be done, they all want good returns and even better service.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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Jim Gurd
Premium
join:2000-07-08
Plymouth, MI
·Comcast
| reply to pnh102
I would never be without a POTS line until VoIP can provide me with the same level of service for 911.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it true that VoIP 911 calls go to a different call center and are not E-911 capable (i.e. they don't show your phone number and address automatically if you can't talk)?
Right now I don't trust VoIP. I can get (reasonably) cheap POTS service from Talk America. |
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ColdFiltered
join:2005-01-25
Atlanta, GA
| reply to pnh102
Does anyone remember the court decision a few months back against a drug-addict women? The court ordered her to not have anymore children as the many she already had were in foster-care because she, obviously, couldn't take care of them.
I'd have gutted her as my 'court' decision. We have to have a license to drive and fish, but not one to breed. |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| reply to Jim Gurd
said by Jim Gurd :I would never be without a POTS line until VoIP can provide me with the same level of service for 911. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it true that VoIP 911 calls go to a different call center and are not E-911 capable (i.e. they don't show your phone number and address automatically if you can't talk)? Right now I don't trust VoIP. I can get (reasonably) cheap POTS service from Talk America. No and Yes. Different call centers yes , e-911 incompatible no (at least in most cases)
VoIP providers maintain a database of your info which when the server that holds your number to ip translation is checked also checks if it is a 911 call if so all your billing info is sent to the call center which fills in their screen like caller id. Which is then transferred to the local emergency service to you.
E-911 does the same with cell phones, except now with cell phones they triangulate off many towers around you to get the spot where you are. The more antenna's respond the closer they can come to finding you.
VoIP however does not have that ability. What is done is a trace to the router/gateway ahead of you and ping plotted to make sure it's not a bad call and as that is being done your VoIP provider sends them your billing info which is assumed to be your street info.
Vonage however has the system in place but you must double check to make sure it's right and to set it up properly since Vonage doesn't know your specifics. This is why there is 80 pages on Vonage web site with the big red label.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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Alphabyte
join:2001-02-20
Edwardsville, IL
clubs: | reply to Murray3
You don't even need a land line for proper 911. An cell phone that turns on is required to let calls go throught to 911 regardless if it's activated or not.
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Proud President of Riverbend Enterprises, LLC. |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| reply to ColdFiltered
said by ColdFiltered :Does anyone remember the court decision a few months back against a drug-addict women? The court ordered her to not have anymore children as the many she already had were in foster-care because she, obviously, couldn't take care of them. I'd have gutted her as my 'court' decision. We have to have a license to drive and fish, but not one to breed. Don't forget to hunt, even to buy a gun which is in the constitution as a right.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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dispatcher21
join:2004-01-22
united state
| reply to BosstonesOwn
Only a different call center if 911 and non emergecny are handled by different centers. I work for a dispatch center that handles all calls, emergency and non emergency. So in this case, we would get it no matter what. Granted, if the non emergency line and 911 rings at the same time, the 911 gets priority, but the dispatcher should still answer the non emergency line to make sure they indeed dont have an emergency after the 911 call is done with or at least stablized. And I wouldnt trust a cell phone for 911. Depending on where you are, and other factors, you could reach a PSAP that is not even close to where you are. Not only that but depending on the cell providers network conditions or tower problems, sometimes we cant understand you because of the call dropping or severe static, and if you cant tell us where you are, we cant help you. Now yes phase 2 wireless with lat/long is out there but very few PSAP's have been upgraded to use this. Not only do we need a phase 2 compliant phone system, but also a phase 2 CAD system and a mapping program, all of this is big bucks. We use Positron Power 911 for 5 consoles and that was over $150,000.00. The CAD cost over $250,000.00 (for initial cost, I believe upgrade to phase 2 was a lot cheaper) and mapping was over $35,000.00. As you can see, not many agencies will have the money to upgrade. Add to this the fact that cell companies are not even close to having even 80% success rate with phase 2 info and cell phones start to look as bad as VoIP. The safest bet is a landline period. |
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PhoenixDown
-- Wants FIOS
Premium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
clubs:
| reply to pnh102
Re: Sterilize and Jail the Parents...
Alot of parents aren't as tech savy as those of us here on DSLR. I get see the VOIP advertisements all the time and if you didn't know better, you would almost swear thats the service is being provided over POTS in some cases and I never saw any of them mention that 911 might be an 'issue'. It is very misleading.
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www.pulsetoday.com -- marketing forums! |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| reply to dispatcher21
I am surprised that they have not upgraded the mapping systems yet. Our area already has it set up and running. Maybe just my area/market is phase 2 set but i know right now optimization of the market here is nearly complete for 2 providers.
I also do a gree landline is the safest.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| reply to PhoenixDown
I agree. One of my neighbors asked me about getting "Digital Phone" service from Time Warner. It's being advertised here like crazy and she was considering it. I told her that I'd recommend against it due to various VoIP/TW-Digital Phone issues (power failure = loss of phone service, cable outage = loss of phone service, 911 service which isn't as good as POTS).
A year ago this July, my son (then 11 months old) spiked a 103+ fever and had a grand mal seizure. He stopped responding and even stopped breathing. We panicked (obviously as any parent would if their kid stopped breathing -- we actually thought he was dead at one point) but had enough presence of mind to call 911. The operator got an ambulance through to us right away.
Apparently, the magic words were "infant" and "stopped breathing" because five minutes later there was an ambulance in front of our house and emergency personnel giving my son oxygen. (He had started breathing on his own before they arrived.) As a side note, never have his screams of panic sounded so sweet as they meant that he was still alive.
Turns out that he had Coxsackie virus and the spiking fever made him have a febrile convulsion. It also turns out that febrile convulsions are rarely harmful and my son was ok in the end. (Still, try telling a parent whose baby stops responding and then starts twitching and turning blue that their baby will be ok.)
Still, at the time it seemed like his life was at stake and, having had that experience, I wouldn't go with VoIP for the 911 issue alone. 911 is something that should just work. It should need to be configured by the end user. The advertisements for "digital phone service" are very misleading. VoIP is being touted as nothing more than an inexpensive version of a normal phone line when in fact it's a completely different beast with it's own quirks.
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-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
http://www.PCQandA.com/
http://www.urateit.com/ |
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Storm72
join:2003-07-03
Bourbonnais, IL
clubs:
1 edit | reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :Its idiots like these who will sue the US tech industry out of the country. I know that once I have kids, the first thing I will do is get the cheapest POTS-based line (even as much as I hate the telegraph companies) just for proper 911 access should it be needed. Don't forget the money-grubbing lawyers who are all too happy to help idiots like this continue to clog the courts with countless numbers of frivolous lawsuits.
As a parent, I think you're dead-on about having a POTS line as a backup. Since I have a security system I do have a POTS line, but my wife and I pretty much use our mobiles for making and receiving calls. We're also entertaining the possibility of going with VoIP, but no matter what we end up doing, we're still going to hang on to our scaled-down POTS line for the foreseeable future. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to PhoenixDown
said by PhoenixDown :I get see the VOIP advertisements all the time and if you didn't know better, you would almost swear thats the service is being provided over POTS in some cases and I never saw any of them mention that 911 might be an 'issue'. It is very misleading. You're right about this. All of these advertisements should make it clear that 911 service doesn't work like POTS-based 911. But its still the parents' responsibility to find out these things when they consider making the switch from POTS to VoIP.
I am surprised that POTS providers have not capitalized on this problem by advertising that their product works perfectly with 911.
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Hey Fast Eddie... you're next! |
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sektor1952
join:2001-02-28
Palm Coast, FL | reply to BosstonesOwn
You forgot about the e-mails vonage sends you when you first sign up for the service to remind you to setup 911 service. |
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cbs228
Geeks Of The World, Unite
join:2000-09-04
Saint Louis, MO | reply to Alphabyte
Cellular 911 is almost as bad as Vonage 911. The PSAP operators do not get any location data, and if you are near the county border your call could be routed to the wrong PSAP entirely. |
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Murray3
join:2001-03-06
Texas
| reply to Alphabyte
said by Alphabyte :You don't even need a land line for proper 911. An cell phone that turns on is required to let calls go throught to 911 regardless if it's activated or not. That's true. For some of us though, we don't get good cell phone coverage from our homes, though we're able to have a reliable POTS line. |
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lawrence171
Evilly Yours - Evilness
join:2001-12-24
Canada
 ·Acanac
| reply to ColdFiltered
Ugh... what right does that woman have to make another suffer endlessly because of her own stupidity/incompetence?
The court makes decision base on what's best for society and/or the individuals involved. Can you honestly tell me that such a mother will give birth to healthy babies? |
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LoftyDan
join:2002-10-22
Victoria, BC
·Shaw
·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to Alphabyte
As much as I like to point that fact out to people (as a reason to not dispose of old cell phones), I've never actually gotten through with 911 on a cell phone during the day time. First time, I let the phone redial for over 5 minutes, never to get through, only then thinking to call 411 and ask for the CHP. Second time, I did so much quicker... I think any VoIP service, as well as cell phones, should have the emergency number stored as a preset. |
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