  WhyADuck Premium join:2003-03-05
1 edit | Michigan AG takes action against Vonage
I do NOT agree that the Michigan AG should have done this!!!
»www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stori···0&EDATE=
Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox Takes Action Against Vonage to Protect Internet Ph one Customers »www.michigan.gov/ag
LANSING, Mich., April 29 /PRNewswire/ -- Attorney General Mike Cox announced today that New Jersey-based Vonage Holdings Corporation, a major provider of Internet-based telephone service, faces legal action for misleading consumers about the company's emergency 9-1-1 service. In a Notice of Intended Action (NIA) sent to Vonage Wednesday, Cox told the company it has failed to make it clear that customers do not have access to traditional 9-1-1 service.
"Vonage needs to make sure its customers understand that normal 9-1-1 access may not be available to them," Cox said. "Emergency calls made through Vonage's service are often routed through call centers that may not be answered outside of regular business hours." Although Vonage advertises its "911 dialing" as a benefit, the feature has significant limitations compared to traditional phone service. Customers who use Vonage's service are not directed to operators who dispatch emergency vehicles. If emergency personnel do get the call, they may not be able to identify the caller's phone number or have information displaying the caller's address. "I don't know about most people, but I don't have the ability to time my emergencies," Cox said. "Vonage has ten days to respond to the NIA, or my office will file a lawsuit seeking injunctive relief and civil penalties." Consumers who want to file a complaint about Vonage or VOIP may do so by writing to the Attorney General's Consumer Protection Division at P.O. Box 30213, Lansing, MI 48909, or by calling toll-free 1-877-765-8388. During 2003 and 2004, the Consumer Protection Division collected more than $600 million on behalf of Michigan. In 2004, the Division stopped more than $400 million in utility rate increases and responded to more than 102,000 consumer complaints.
SOURCE Michigan Attorney General Web Site: »www.michigan.gov/ag |
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 jeckler
join:2005-04-11 Mesa, AZ | Idiot |
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 jay_rm
join:2002-04-12 Netville
·Fox Valley Internet
·ViaTalk
| reply to WhyADuck Let the piling on begin ! 
How long until Elliot "Please elect Me" Spitzer gets involved ?  -- 3500/512 5.7 GHz Motorola Canopy Wireless; FoxValley.net: 2 lines Vonage VoIP |
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 MotoVT Vonage User Since Jan 2004
join:2002-12-03 Butler, PA | reply to WhyADuck What a bunch of bullshit! |
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 ziggle
join:2005-04-26 Akron, OH | reply to WhyADuck I think it was quite clear to me when I signed up for Vonage that it wasn't traditional 9-1-1.
Hmmm... wonder if SBC is a campaign contributor  |
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 garys_2k
join:2004-05-07 Farmington, MI
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Vonage
| reply to WhyADuck What a load of crap! Cox had, up until this, been a very reasonable guy. Now WHY this? Anyone that check their page on 911, »www.vonage.com/features.php?feature=911 can see awfully CLEARLY that this isn't brain-dead-dumb E911. It's different, it has to be activated, and you have to tell Vonage your service location.
Like I said before, the VoIP providers should require cutomers to type "I understand I will not have regular 911 service" into a box before they're allowed to recieve service. Maybe THAT would satisfy these overeager AGs. |
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 jeckler
join:2005-04-11 Mesa, AZ
| reply to WhyADuck When I signed up over the phone, the Vonage CSR took at least a full minute to explain how their 911 service works, and I believe I even had to acknowledge that I understood before she would continue. I'm not sure what happens during a retail activation though. |
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  Trimline Premium join:2004-10-24 Orlando, FL
·Callcentric
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to WhyADuck Again we must endure political grandstanding at it's best. Sigh. Now we are all doomed to see this in the headlines and all the other states need only replace Mike Cox and the state's name with their very own AG's name and it's a political win.
Take a deep breath...better yet, open a beer, shake head, and go on. -- FWD#537129 |
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  WhyADuck Premium join:2003-03-05
| reply to ziggle said by ziggle :I think it was quite clear to me when I signed up for Vonage that it wasn't traditional 9-1-1. Hmmm... wonder if SBC is a campaign contributor  Well let's see - first we have the Texas AG. Obviously SBC territory.
Then, yesterday and today, we get two news items about VoIP in Michigan, where SBC is also the biggest phone company. One is that the Michigan Public Service Commission issued an order -- an order, mind you -- asking the Michigan legislature to amend the Michigan Telecommunications Act to authorize it to address concerns raised about VOIP service. And guess what, one of those "concerns" is the lack of 911 access, as mentioned in yesterday's press release.
Then suddenly today we get the Cox announcement. I have to believe that the two events are somehow related; the timing is just too coincidental to think otherwise. And knowing that SBC is not above using "astroturf" organizations to further their cause, I would like to know just who put the bug in AG Cox's bonnet to get him to do this. I would almost bet he was hearing from organizations that are directly or indirectly funded, in whole or in part, by you know who.
What's also curious to me is that this press release came out on a Friday afternoon. Normally you do that when you want to bury a story in the back pages of the paper. So I don't think AG Cox really wanted this action open for comment by the public (the short response time he demands of Vonage would also indicate that).
To me this seems like abuse of power and definitely politically motivated. I would be surprised if he's had even a single complaint from a Michigan customer.
This stinks worse than a family of skunks spraying a wet dog that is sitting next to a pile of burning sulphur! |
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  buddahbless
join:2005-03-21 usa/canada
| I agree with whyaduck too damn coincidental !!! and exceptionally since its in states where SBC is the big POTS player. wouldn't surprise me if Illinois is the next to start a suit.( the largest city SBC serves is Chicago) it would be perfect grounds for debates. |
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 lmjh7065 Premium join:2001-04-04 Cincinnati, OH
·QuantumVoice
1 edit | reply to WhyADuck When I signed up for my FIRST and SECOND cell phone no one even mentioned 911 let alone that wireless 911 wasn't the same as POTS 911.
Maybe, just maybe, it would be better for the VoIP providers to just discontinue 911 until it they can offer true E-911 service.
Still this sounds not only discriminatory but totally unfounded and just NOT true. Who truthfully can say that you are not warned of this differentiation over and over when signing up for VoIP. (EDIT: Who truthfully can say that they were warned of this differentiation when signing up for wireless service? Sounds like some sort of selective enforcement.)
Is "big brother" going to protect us from every mishap from now on, including POTS 100% reliable 911 dialing and lightning strikes? |
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 Jim K
join:2002-05-02 Columbus, OH
·Verizon FIOS
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by lmjh7065 :Is "big brother" going to protect us from every mishap from now on, including POTS 100% reliable 911 dialing and lightning strikes? If we let it happen. Our entrenched, lifetime politicians are letting Big Brother take over. We have a political duopoly - the equivalent of having two VoIP choices - Lingo or Broadvox. |
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 hesty
join:2001-09-16 Vancouver, BC | reply to WhyADuck Maybe the politician should be educated about VoIP, it's Voice over IP, not Telephony over IP. When will this stop? Must Skype be mandated to include 911 as well? Geez.. |
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 stufried Premium join:2003-10-13 | reply to garys_2k Cox has not been a very reasonable individual. He is a show boat. His own assistant attorney general's are not overly thrilled with him. |
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 electrode5
join:2005-02-13 Charlotte, NC
| reply to WhyADuck SO much hand wringing. All this is about is simple- raising money through extortion for the state of Michigan. Attorneys general of the states now find a good mark, sue them, force them to settle, claim victory, put the money in the state coffers, and then look for the next mark. That is all this is really about at its core. The AG of Michigan could truly care less about VOIP and 911. He get's great publicity for his future political career and the state raises lots of money through a shakedown. This whole sue, settle racket is now big business for the states. Look at Spitzer and how much he has made for NY. |
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  La Luna Surviving Ashraful Premium join:2001-07-12 Warwick, NY clubs:
·Optimum Online
·Vonage
| reply to WhyADuck All Vonage (or even all VoIP) users should make their feelings known to this moron.....loudly. Tell him we are not as stupid as he thinks, to stop grand standing in our behalf, and that Vonage makes is perfectly and absolutely clear about 911 issues.
Lots of contact info here:
»www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164···,00.html
Email:
miag@michigan.gov -- ~~I'll make a wish, take a chance, make a change, and breakaway...Out of the darkness and into the sun...~~ |
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  WhyADuck Premium join:2003-03-05
1 edit | reply to electrode5 Funny you should use the word extortion. It is true that Michigan is having a budget crisis, and that they are resorting to draconian means to try and pump more money into the state's coffers (don't even think of letting your driver's license or car registration expire, or letting your car go uninsured). But on the other hand, one has to wonder what would cause a state attorney general to start carrying the water for the big phone companies, given that there has never been much love between the AG's office and the incumbent telcos in the past. Bear in mind that there have been, to the best of my knowledge, zero incidents of anyone suffering bodily harm or property damage due to Vonage's 911 offering in the state of Michigan.
Well one thing that crossed my mind last night, and maybe it's just a paranoid delusional fantasy on my part, but the thought was, "what does [the phone company] have on the AG?" Then suddenly it dawned on me, they have access to his call records! And even if they never actually admitted to looking at them, if the AG is doing anything that he shouldn't they could potentially tip someone off to that fact.
For example, lets just suppose (and this is just a hypothetical) that a high government official were calling the number of, say, a known prostitute or a drug dealer or some other lowlife every few nights. Certainly that would show up in the phone company's records; the question is, would they actually have the guts to try and hold that over a government official? Well, if that government official were more concerned about keeping his job and having a shot at running for a higher office (like governor) than doing what is right, who knows, he or she just might be susceptible to that kind of blackmail. And if the trail led to a scandal that was not only career damaging, but possibly could involve some deprivation of freedom, then let's just say that the hypothetical phone company could have the hypothetical government official in their pocket.
Do I have any evidence that such a thing is happening? Not a shred. I'm just trying to figure out some explanation that makes sense for what is happening here. If the AG had wanted to crow about this as being a defender of the public interest, the timing of the press release is suspicious - when you want the world to know about something, you don't issue the press release on Friday afternoon (the last Friday of the month, no less). A Friday afternoon press release is usually only made when you know that the media will probably take notice sooner or later, but you want to control the timing and you're hoping it will be "stale" news by Monday morning to escape commentary or excessive attention. And since no one in Michigan has been harmed, and I cannot imagine that Vonage users are complaining, the ONLY thing that makes sense is that somehow, some entity that feels threatened by Vonage and/or VoIP somehow motivated him to do this.
So if you can accept that, then you have to believe that either he's not too bright and actually believes that Vonage's 911 offering is a real issue (which might be the case if he never even visited their web site), OR someone, somehow is putting the screws to him. I DON'T KNOW which is the case, or if maybe there's another explanation I haven't thought of (I could accept the "grandstanding" explanation if, for example, the press release had ben issued on a Tuesday morning). To re-phrase what I said before, this stinks worse than a family of skunks spraying a wet dog that is sitting next to a pile of burning sulphur on the grounds of a sewage treatment plant on the day of an overflow, next to a beach full of dead alewives! 
For the non-Michiganders in the crowd: "Alewives" are a Michigan reference - they are a small Great Lakes fish that seems to have mass near-extinction events every so often, particularly back in the 1960's, making not only the lakefront but the entire town smell like dead, rotting fish! |
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 terracell
join:2004-04-16 Livonia, MI | reply to WhyADuck They can recall every last unit far as I am concerned. |
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 garys_2k
join:2004-05-07 Farmington, MI
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Vonage
| reply to WhyADuck WhyADuck, I very much doubt, beyond "doubt," acutally, that Cox is being blackmailed. I suspect strongly that he's getting bad information and is trying to "protect" us.
BTW, he isn't going to run for governor. He's already assured the Granholm camp that he's not going against her. |
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 electrode5
join:2005-02-13 Charlotte, NC
| reply to WhyADuck Why go for governor when you can go for the Senate. This is all pure and simple about getting his name in the press and saying he got money for Michigan. Vonage just happened to be his target de jure. AGs all over the country now are following Spitzer's lead and trying to find a "cause" where they can a lot of press (see, we are even talking about him- there is no such thing as bad publicity, some say)and become a household name. When the average idiot goes into the voting booth they don't know 90% of the people on the ballot, much less the candidate's positions. Being a "name" they recognize is unfortunately a major factor that can be critical in getting some elected. We are making him a household name. Granted, not household like Spitzer, but the voters in Michigan know his name much better now. Plus, he can tell the voters he saved them from a big, bad phone company (the average guy will love that) and got the state lots of money. He could care less about VOIP. |
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