neosolace
Stay In It
join:2003-08-25
Verbena, AL | reply to Sarah
Re: A What...?
Granted...it doesn't "keep you alive", but I don't think I could really "live" without those services.
For instance....that lovely sewer system runnin' beneath the street! |
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Sarah
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2001-01-09
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
edit:
April 28th, @02:45PM
| said by neosolace  :Granted...it doesn't "keep you alive", but I don't think I could really "live" without those services. But why does that even affect whether it should be a utility? The definition of a utility is not "something I need/want really bad." 
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The devil makes work for idle hands, but Stanford makes work for idle CPUs! |
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Talis
join:2001-06-21
Houston, TX
| reply to neosolace
How many centuries did man survive without lovely sewer systems runnin beneath the street? All these utilities people keep bringing up improve the QUALITY of life, but do not sustain it. There are still place in the United States that do not have sewers, electricity or water systems. They still manage to live. So stop classifying broadband as non-essential compared to the other utilities. None of them are essential.
Broadband access has as much potential to improve the quality of life, for individuals as well as whole communities, as any other public utility. |
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icp1
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
 ·AT&T Southwest
| said by Talis :How many centuries did man survive without lovely sewer systems runnin beneath the street? All these utilities people keep bringing up improve the QUALITY of life, but do not sustain it. There are still place in the United States that do not have sewers, electricity or water systems. They still manage to live. So stop classifying broadband as non-essential compared to the other utilities. None of them are essential. Broadband access has as much potential to improve the quality of life, for individuals as well as whole communities, as any other public utility. You don't think electricity, clean water, and sewage are essential to life? Scary. I understand your point about some places don't have them and survive, but try shutting off just 1 of them in a place like new york city. You would have a huge upswing in death and/or disease from any one of them being gone.
Now back to the point -- broadband is not currently a utility in my opinion, but I believe the internet itself it almost to that point, if it isn't already. |
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N3OGH
They both suck, we're so screwed
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Sarah
Could you tell me where you found a heating system for your home that doesn't use electricity in some way? If it's working for you up in MA, it's got to be able to handle the cold in PA.
No heat in winter = freeze to death.
Electricity is a utility....
PS, a wood stove isn't going to cut it. I have one, and while it's nice, the whole Northeast doesn't have enough trees to keep us all warm all winter..... |
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Sarah
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2001-01-09
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| I have natural gas heating, and I'm sure you could make a gas heater easily enough w/o electricity if you really had to. My point is not that I don't need or want it, it's that just because it's a utility doesn't mean it is necessary to life.
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The devil makes work for idle hands, but Stanford makes work for idle CPUs! |
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Fatal Vector
@sfldmi.ameritech
| reply to icp1
Packed together as we are, if we didn't have sewers and electricity there would be epidemics in short order, just like there were before sewers and running water. These things became a reality because of such epidemics at a time when there was much less population density than there is today. Besides that, Life is damn hard and inconvenient without electricity which you will notice during the next extended blackout.
On top of that, if it weren't for electricity, you wouldn't have all the frozen food you take so much for granted. This country would be totally different. Yes, people managed to survive without electricity and sewers and running water, but their lives were shorter and MUCH harder. They were TOUGH back then because they had to be. The majority of the US population today would not survive in such conditions because the old knowledge and ways have not been passed on and, to be honest, we are va fat and lazy society in many ways.
What will eventually happen is that fiber will replace copper. It's inevitable. It may take a decade or two, but it WILL happen. As far as computerized appliances connected to the web. They have those allready and Windows XP has a mechanism to use them that is never used and is normally turned off (if you're smart) because it is a security hole. I dont see consumers flocking to the store to buy a refrigerator with web access either. On the face of it, such a idea is silly.
The more likely evolution is the household computer that controls appliances (as well as lights, heat, communications, etc) by a preset program and allows web access for them-if NEEDED-for service, etc. Otherwise, such access is simply another security nightmare waiting to be exploited.
The web is not the all encompassing nirvana it is made out to be. Like allways, the corporations and government see nothing more in it than a revenue stream. Just look how Comcast is pushing 4 Mb service: Streaming audio/video PREMIUM (read: extra cost) services. If you want more proof, just look at all the "ads by GOOOOOGLE on this very website and the websites it links you to in "news" stories.
In the end, money talks, and you walk, pilgrim, just like allways. |
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Talis
join:2001-06-21
Houston, TX
| reply to icp1
said by icp1 :You don't think electricity, clean water, and sewage are essential to life? Don't put words in my mouth. CLEAN water is not what I commented on, but water systems. There is a difference.
But to answer your question, none of these systems is essential to sustaining life. The fact that cities provide these systems is what allows them to grow to the enormous sizes that they do. Once a city has grown to that size, which could only have been possible with these utility systems in place, then of course shutting them down would drastically impact the people living there. I'm not sure what any of that has to do with my point, however. |
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N3OGH
They both suck, we're so screwed
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | reply to Sarah
You might get that heater to fire off, but how are you going to move the heat through your house?
Hot air needs an electric blower, baseboard heat needs a circulation pump, both are run by electricity.... |
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Sarah
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2001-01-09
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| This is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand... but here you go, enjoy reading: »www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/···a73.html
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The devil makes work for idle hands, but Stanford makes work for idle CPUs! |
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Captain Obvious
| reply to Talis
I believe the point is that for most of the US, these services are no longer optional, and thus, a hard requirement.
Yes, strictly speaking you are correct - you can live in the woods with little more than a sharp stick and some animal skins, but the vast majority of Americans couldn't - they would just die if stuck in the woods without.
So, whether you like it or not, gas, electric, coal or fuel oil in parts, water, and sewer are critical services, without which a lot of people would die. That makes them utilities. |
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Talis
join:2001-06-21
Houston, TX
| Obviously I'm not stating my point very well.
The critical, "can't live without them," status of these utilities did not exist at some point in the not so distant past. They were just as novel as broadband is today. Over time they have developed into critical services. Broadband access has as much potential to improve the quality of life, for individuals as well as whole communities, as any other public utility. To think otherwise is just short-sighted. |
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