Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| reply to B
Re: A What...?
Not sure which comments are pithy.
Simply putting forth the seemingly ignored future-fact that home data, in very short order, will be one-pipe that connects to all manner of electronics, connecting everything in the home to a global network, and largely a necessity for anyone not hiding out on the fringe's of society. (Which I grant is always a choice - and maybe in 10 years a wise one)
I don't know if that observation justifies subsidization or anything else, simply throwing the concept on the table. |
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captokita
Premium
join:2005-02-22
Calabash, NC
| reply to Karl Bode
--I'd guess it's fairly sound to believe a lot of appliances will be connected to the internet to aid self or remote diagnostic repair, update firmware, and sell marketing companies information on how often you do X, or eat Y...--
LOL! Can you see it? You go to cook dinner, and a pop up window comes up on the stove.. "Before you cook your dinner, please click here for info to enlarge your......sausage." Dinner sausage! Get your minds out of the gutter people!  Or someone hacked into it and overcooks your food.
But it's a matter of time before all appliances are "internet ready"
To get this back on topic, right now, the internet, broasband or dialup, is a luxury. One day, that will change. |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode  :How about in five to fifteen years, when your copper is gone, and a single fiber or coaxial line runs into your basement and fuels everything, including your phone, television, stove, and grandpa's iron lung? Does basic data connectivity stay in the "luxury" category then? When fiber replaces copper everywhere (many years from now), one of 2 things will happen. Either local telcos (or whoever is offering the fiber) will decide it's cheaper to offer their POTS service over an all fiber network, and offer customers voice service only over a fiber connection, or the cost to offer broadband along that existing fiber will be so inexpensive, it will become an add on to whatever replaces the traditional POTS system as we know it.
Some above use the argument that electricity was once a luxury item. While this is true, it is a poor argument. In the time electricity was a luxury, most people heated their homes with coal or wood, and could survive in the cold without electricity. Anyone here have a gas or oil burning heater that doesn't need electricity to fire and circulate heat through your house? I would think not.
A utility is a service you could essentially, die without. In January and February in the northern states, one could freeze to death without heat. One could not live without water, hence water, sewer, electricity are utilities.
The reasoning behind Telephone service being a utility is it is the quickest way to summons aid in an emergency. EG, medical emergency, fire, etc. I think this is specious reasoning at best, considering so many people are ditching their POTS lines. If POTS is such a utility, why are so many people ditching it? Nevertheless, I accept the argument, not necessarily agreeing with it.
Sorry, I don't see where broadband fits into the utility category. I lived my entire life without broadband until 1999 when I was one fo the first people in my neighborhood to get a cable modem. We didn't have cable TV until 1995.
As far as your stove, and grandpa's iron lung, I as of yet to see either one of these devices powered by a broadband connection....
The day you convince me someone would die or freeze without broadband is the day you'll convince me it's a utility. |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| reply to B
said by B :...or that frickin' Segway? (Homer Simpson voice....)
Segway....!
(cut to Homer zooming around town, wreaking havoc and destruction...)
--
A is A |
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Aggie Dan
Stop... Reverse That.
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Frisco, TX
clubs: | reply to Sarah
I dunno. That sounds like a luxury to me. |
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Aggie Dan
Stop... Reverse That.
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Frisco, TX
clubs:
| reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode :How about in five to fifteen years, when your copper is gone, and a single fiber or coaxial line runs into your basement and fuels everything, including your phone, television, stove, and grandpa's iron lung? Does basic data connectivity stay in the "luxury" category then? You have to be provided your dial-tone. Plain and simple. They can't just rip up your copper and not replace it. The mandate that there be rural phone service will guarantee that you have phone service. If you have phone service you will have some connectivity to the internet. Admittedly, the speed may stink. But, you'll have connectivity.
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Note : The statements made by myself are my own and not the opinions of my employer or of my coworkers. 15.81 GHz Crunching Power | The Ryan Foundation for MPS Children |
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Sarah
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2001-01-09
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| reply to Aggie Dan
said by Aggie Dan :I dunno. That sounds like a luxury to me. I just meant to answer the poster who said "how will fiber fuel my stove".
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The devil makes work for idle hands, but Stanford makes work for idle CPUs! |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Sarah
Could you tell me where you found a heating system for your home that doesn't use electricity in some way? If it's working for you up in MA, it's got to be able to handle the cold in PA.
No heat in winter = freeze to death.
Electricity is a utility....
PS, a wood stove isn't going to cut it. I have one, and while it's nice, the whole Northeast doesn't have enough trees to keep us all warm all winter..... |
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Sarah
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2001-01-09
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| reply to N3OGH
said by N3OGH :A utility is a service you could essentially, die without. That's just a definition you made up, that doesn't make it true.
Dictionary definition of "public utility" from www.m-w.com:
"a business organization (as an electric company) performing a public service and subject to special governmental regulation"
That's all. No one said it has to be a life-saving technology.
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The devil makes work for idle hands, but Stanford makes work for idle CPUs! |
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Sarah
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2001-01-09
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| reply to N3OGH
I have natural gas heating, and I'm sure you could make a gas heater easily enough w/o electricity if you really had to. My point is not that I don't need or want it, it's that just because it's a utility doesn't mean it is necessary to life. 
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The devil makes work for idle hands, but Stanford makes work for idle CPUs! |
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B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode :Simply putting forth the seemingly ignored future-fact that home data, in very short order, will be one-pipe that connects to all manner of electronics, connecting everything in the home to a global network, and largely a necessity for anyone not hiding out on the fringe's of society. (Which I grant is always a choice - and maybe in 10 years a wise one) I don't know if that observation justifies subsidization or anything else, simply throwing the concept on the table. And I'm just saying that the "observation" isn't necessarily a sure thing. Who's to say that in fact we're headed for that particular future?
I don't disagree with the likelihood, but I'm naive enough to realize that we can be completely wrong -- what if wired broadband is an also-ran in the history books, and some form of wireless connectivity becomes paramount? What if, us geeky enthusiasts aside, the global net really DOESN'T become as all-important and all-consuming as we think it will be? The future is inevitable, but particular technologies and social developments aren't.
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Nothing is certain, of course. But I'd put the likelyhood of pervasive high-bandwidth home networks up there statistically with Paris Hilton not getting a Nobel peace prize. |
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Fatal Vector
@aol.com
| reply to icp1
Packed together as we are, if we didn't have sewers and electricity there would be epidemics in short order, just like there were before sewers and running water. These things became a reality because of such epidemics at a time when there was much less population density than there is today. Besides that, Life is damn hard and inconvenient without electricity which you will notice during the next extended blackout.
On top of that, if it weren't for electricity, you wouldn't have all the frozen food you take so much for granted. This country would be totally different. Yes, people managed to survive without electricity and sewers and running water, but their lives were shorter and MUCH harder. They were TOUGH back then because they had to be. The majority of the US population today would not survive in such conditions because the old knowledge and ways have not been passed on and, to be honest, we are va fat and lazy society in many ways.
What will eventually happen is that fiber will replace copper. It's inevitable. It may take a decade or two, but it WILL happen. As far as computerized appliances connected to the web. They have those allready and Windows XP has a mechanism to use them that is never used and is normally turned off (if you're smart) because it is a security hole. I dont see consumers flocking to the store to buy a refrigerator with web access either. On the face of it, such a idea is silly.
The more likely evolution is the household computer that controls appliances (as well as lights, heat, communications, etc) by a preset program and allows web access for them-if NEEDED-for service, etc. Otherwise, such access is simply another security nightmare waiting to be exploited.
The web is not the all encompassing nirvana it is made out to be. Like allways, the corporations and government see nothing more in it than a revenue stream. Just look how Comcast is pushing 4 Mb service: Streaming audio/video PREMIUM (read: extra cost) services. If you want more proof, just look at all the "ads by GOOOOOGLE on this very website and the websites it links you to in "news" stories.
In the end, money talks, and you walk, pilgrim, just like allways. |
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Talis
join:2001-06-21
Houston, TX
| reply to icp1
said by icp1 :You don't think electricity, clean water, and sewage are essential to life? Don't put words in my mouth. CLEAN water is not what I commented on, but water systems. There is a difference.
But to answer your question, none of these systems is essential to sustaining life. The fact that cities provide these systems is what allows them to grow to the enormous sizes that they do. Once a city has grown to that size, which could only have been possible with these utility systems in place, then of course shutting them down would drastically impact the people living there. I'm not sure what any of that has to do with my point, however. |
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| reply to Network Guy
But isn't that exactly what happened with the aforementioned items: running water, electricity, phone service.
Metro areas were first served, and rurals second. That alone does not discount something being deemed a utility.
I am of the opinion that broadband is not yet at the level of utility, but it is well on it's way to becoming so. Evidenced partially by the fact that established "utility companies" such as TELCOs are major providers of service. Eventually the connectivity will just be one line, and THAT single connection will be a utility.
K.
--
TheGlobalMind.com
Forget regret, or life is yours to miss - Rent |
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LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium
join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
| reply to PDXPLT
said by PDXPLT :said by Asmodeus :In most countries, incentives and targeted private/public partnerships seem to work pretty well. But here the "gov't screws everything up" crowd won't let that happen. Yeah, and that's why America has become the wealthiest, most productive country in the world. The "private/public" (read: public, since the distinction between socialist and communist is worthless) partnership in health care really has worked well in Canada, hasn't it, where you have to wait up to nine months to get a cat scan. We'll see how China does trying to take over, but keep in mind, with their system, the people have to oppressed to keep it going. --
"You cannot separate fools from their foolishness, even though you grind them like grain with mortar and pestle" (Proverbs 27:22). |
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Tomek
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Brooklyn, NY
 ·Packet8
| reply to IamZed
said by IamZed :Exactly. Electricity was a luxury once. A phone was a luxury once. Running water was a luxury once. People who think fiber is a luxury can’t see past tomorrow, and shouldn’t be allowed to plan it. Nicely said.
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Semper Fidelis |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | reply to Sarah
You might get that heater to fire off, but how are you going to move the heat through your house?
Hot air needs an electric blower, baseboard heat needs a circulation pump, both are run by electricity.... |
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Sarah
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2001-01-09
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| This is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand... but here you go, enjoy reading: »www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/···a73.html
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The devil makes work for idle hands, but Stanford makes work for idle CPUs! |
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john262
join:2003-09-26
Elko, NV | reply to Murray3
Agreed. I had dialup for several years before getting DSL and at the time I got along with it just fine. It's not that I would want to go back to it now, but it definitely is just a luxury. |
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