Asmodeus1
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| A What...?
Listen, the ability to access the internet regardless of method is a LUXURY!!! period... everytime government decides to step in to subsidize or provide a service, it more than likely ends up becoming a failure and people who use it become ingrained with the idea that they are now entitled to it... |
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Murray
join:2001-03-06
Texas
| said by Asmodeus1  :Listen, the ability to access the internet regardless of method is a LUXURY!!! period... Yup. I don't see how it could possibly be deemed a Utility.
I could survive without Broadband... but would not fair so good without water, electricity, etc. |
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Aquaman1940
join:2004-08-10
Chesapeake, VA | reply to Asmodeus1
What if utilities depend upon it? Then what is it considered?
(Not an argument for it, just a question.) |
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Karl
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| reply to Murray
How about in five to fifteen years, when your copper is gone, and a single fiber or coaxial line runs into your basement and fuels everything, including your phone, television, stove, and grandpa's iron lung?
Does basic data connectivity stay in the "luxury" category then? |
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IamZed
Premium
join:2001-01-10
Dayton, OH
| Exactly. Electricity was a luxury once. A phone was a luxury once. Running water was a luxury once. People who think fiber is a luxury can’t see past tomorrow, and shouldn’t be allowed to plan it.
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A thing worth doing is worth doing to excess |
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Sarah
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2001-01-09
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| reply to Murray
said by Murray :said by Asmodeus1 :Listen, the ability to access the internet regardless of method is a LUXURY!!! period... Yup. I don't see how it could possibly be deemed a Utility. I could survive without Broadband... but would not fair so good without water, electricity, etc. How exactly does electricity keep you alive?
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The devil makes work for idle hands, but Stanford makes work for idle CPUs! |
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neosolace
Stay In It
join:2003-08-25
Verbena, AL
| reply to Karl
IMO... Although it isn't QUITE to the point where it should be a utility yet..Karl is right. This is no different than rural phone,electrification, and even gas service was in the earlier part of last century. Although I don't completely trust the idea of competing with muni operations, I do think that the government will HAVE to get involved (maybe not just in the ways everyone thinks) to get broadband to the masses. There's just no simple, easy way to do it. I think that if carefully planned out and overseen, a government (or otherly financed) operation could benefit everybody. |
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Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Vonage
| reply to IamZed
Once it becomes standard, as in the rural communities also run it, then I'd call that a utility. Current trend seems to be rollouts in the major metropolitan and surrounding areas only, and to me that's considered a convenience, not something to count or rely on. |
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neosolace
Stay In It
join:2003-08-25
Verbena, AL | reply to Sarah
Granted...it doesn't "keep you alive", but I don't think I could really "live" without those services.
For instance....that lovely sewer system runnin' beneath the street! |
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jerichohol
join:2002-05-12
UK | reply to Aquaman1940
Its not a natural utility (as yet :P) water, gas, electricity are all things which you need for a house.
Telephone and Internet - depending on your perspective, I don't think they have reached that stage as yet |
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Sarah
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2001-01-09
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
edit:
April 28th, @02:45PM
| reply to neosolace
said by neosolace :Granted...it doesn't "keep you alive", but I don't think I could really "live" without those services. But why does that even affect whether it should be a utility? The definition of a utility is not "something I need/want really bad." 
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The devil makes work for idle hands, but Stanford makes work for idle CPUs! |
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wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to Karl
said by Karl :How about in five to fifteen years, when your copper is gone, and a single fiber or coaxial line runs into your basement and fuels everything, including your phone, television, stove, and grandpa's iron lung? How exactly is fiber going to "fuel" my stove?? I do agree with your other examples however.
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I like dogs, guns, and cheeseburgers. Whats your malfunction? |
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Karl
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | I'd guess it's fairly sound to believe a lot of appliances will be connected to the internet to aid self or remote diagnostic repair, update firmware, and sell marketing companies information on how often you do X, or eat Y..... |
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Sarah
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2001-01-09
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
edit:
April 28th, @02:52PM
| They have ovens in development (or maybe that you can buy now, I dunno) that you can program when to start baking, or even to refrigerate something until 4 PM and then heat it up in time for dinner, etc.
Doesn't seem like much of a stretch to be plugged in so you set it remotely from phone or office. "We'll be home in half an hour, let me call the oven and start the lasagna baking."
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The devil makes work for idle hands, but Stanford makes work for idle CPUs! |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
 ·chambers cable
·Qwest.net
| reply to Asmodeus1
said by Asmodeus1 :everytime government decides to step in to subsidize or provide a service, it more than likely ends up becoming a failure... Oh yea, that U.S. Highway that got me to work today at 65 mph: what a failure.
That GPS system that got me "unlost" on the trail last weekend, and that allows trucks to be dispatched with the maximum efficiency: pretty much a failure, too.
Those firefighters that saved my neighbors' lives a few months, ago: another failure.
Too bad all the gov't money spent on ARNANET decades ago was such a big waste. I hear it turned into something call the "internet", which nobody uses these days.
If you're going to state ideological absolutes, at least check if they're true first.
Me, i'm more of a pragmatist. Most of the time, market-based forces work best. But even the the most devoted free-market economist will tell you that specific cases of "market failure" exist. In cases, some form of gov't intervention is needed to correct this, whether it takes the form of regulation, incentives, private/public partnering, or outright public ownership.
In most countries, incentives and targeted private/public partnerships seem to work pretty well. But here the "gov't screws everything up" crowd won't let that happen. |
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Talis
join:2001-06-21
Houston, TX
| reply to neosolace
How many centuries did man survive without lovely sewer systems runnin beneath the street? All these utilities people keep bringing up improve the QUALITY of life, but do not sustain it. There are still place in the United States that do not have sewers, electricity or water systems. They still manage to live. So stop classifying broadband as non-essential compared to the other utilities. None of them are essential.
Broadband access has as much potential to improve the quality of life, for individuals as well as whole communities, as any other public utility. |
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Beeper
Part Of The Problem
join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH
clubs:
| reply to Karl
said by Karl :I'd guess it's fairly sound to believe a lot of appliances will be connected to the internet to aid self or remote diagnostic repair, update firmware, and sell marketing companies information on how often you do X, or eat Y..... I believe point # 4. Everything else is rubbish.
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Guaranteed Fear and Loathing. Abandon all hope. Prepare for the Weirdness. Get familiar with Cannibalism. |
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icp1
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to Talis
said by Talis :How many centuries did man survive without lovely sewer systems runnin beneath the street? All these utilities people keep bringing up improve the QUALITY of life, but do not sustain it. There are still place in the United States that do not have sewers, electricity or water systems. They still manage to live. So stop classifying broadband as non-essential compared to the other utilities. None of them are essential. Broadband access has as much potential to improve the quality of life, for individuals as well as whole communities, as any other public utility. You don't think electricity, clean water, and sewage are essential to life? Scary. I understand your point about some places don't have them and survive, but try shutting off just 1 of them in a place like new york city. You would have a huge upswing in death and/or disease from any one of them being gone.
Now back to the point -- broadband is not currently a utility in my opinion, but I believe the internet itself it almost to that point, if it isn't already. |
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B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| reply to Karl
Pithy comments from some of you, and I'm somewhat inclined to agree, but isn't it a little early to judge?
I mean, why pick broadband as the next must-have utility (to be granted special consideration by state and legislative planning), rather than wireless networks? Or cell phones? Or satellite? Or iPods or that frickin' Segway?
All kinds of stuff is important to our current way of life, and all kinds of stuff MAY have enormous importance to the majority going forward. But who's to say which ones are the proto-utilities?
Heck, few things are more pervasive than supermarkets and cell phones, and I don't see much real regulation or city ordinances targeted at either.
-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function |
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SpitefulCrow
Insert Witty Tag Here
Premium
join:2003-06-04
Berkeley, CA
| reply to Asmodeus1
Yeah. That government assistance in extending electricity and water utilities to the public was a failure. Right.
As was the government regulation of telcos that ensured that every area got POTS deployed.
The Internet wouldn't even be around in its current form had the Department of Defense not initiated the creation of ARPANET.
Worst troll ever. |
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