skelet0r
Premium
join:2004-04-26
Florence, AL | look out below
Yeah, until one of them explodes a la Hindenburg, and leaves a land mass the size of Texas without broadband. |
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grcore
New and Improved
join:2003-12-06
usa | Gives a new meaning to "The network is Down"
. |
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NoOneButMe
join:2001-08-24
TX | lol |
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LagAndFrag
join:2003-02-05
West Branch, MI
| reply to skelet0r
Re: look out below
GlobeTel foresees a fleet of helium-filled "stratellites," each able to stay aloft for months at a time and automatically held on station by electric motors powered by batteries charged by solar cells.
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Short of a battery popping a top. There is nothing to explode.
Sorry to burst your bubble Chicken Little. |
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BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Canada | might land on a gas station causing a spark igniting the fuel.
but that's allmost too random. |
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ced06
join:2004-03-12
Towanda, PA | reply to skelet0r
If you're not being sarcastic: Helium won't explode. |
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DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA | reply to NoOneButMe
Re: Gives a new meaning to "The network is Down"
Why not just call it BlimpBand... |
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BodyBumper
join:2004-06-21
Beverly Hills, CA | reply to ced06
Re: look out below
but I'm quite sure the tons of equipment on it will come down on someone's house or apartment intact unlike a satellite which will burn upon reentery.
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"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength." |
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Duh
@fuse.net
| Because I'm sure they just let it randomly crash to ground and don't have any plans set up for guiding it to some sort of empty area. Scientists and engineers are such idiots, sending up this blimp with no plans and just hoping and hoping it doesn't just drift away or crash. |
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BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Canada | they can plan all they want, but once you eliminate lift it's going to drop.
remember, baloon not plane. |
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zoom314
Superman
Premium
join:2001-04-30
Yermo, CA
| reply to skelet0r
said by skelet0r  :Yeah, until one of them explodes a la Hindenburg, and leaves a land mass the size of Texas without broadband. I don't think They'd be using anything but Helium and last I heard It isn't explosive or even flammable in the least.
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Firefox forever!
»zoom314.blogspot.com/
»mysite.verizon.net/zoom314/ |
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RR Conductor
RailRoadDude
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
 ·Comcast
3 edits | reply to skelet0r
"What Can We Learn from the Hindenburg Disaster?
The explosion of the luxury airship Hindenburg at Lakehurst, NJ, on May 6, 1937, serves as one of the most spectacular moments recorded by the media. Until very recently, it has aided in paralyzing the development of widespread hydrogen use as a fuel, due to concerns for safety (and viewing the fiery picture above, understandably so). But knowing the actual nature of the Hindenburg disaster, as well as knowing the behavior of hydrogen allows us to dispel this stigma associated with hydrogen.
The Facts on the Hindenburg Disaster:
1. The bags of hydrogen that provided the lifting force for the Hindenburg were NOT the main contributor to the fire. The surface of the ship was coated with a combination of dark iron oxide and reflective aluminum paint. These components are extremely flammable and burn at a tremendously energetic rate once ignited. The skin of the airship was ignited by electrical discharge from the clouds while docking during an electrical storm. This reaction has been proven chemically for years, and was demonstrated with actual remnants of the Hindenburg sixty years later, which burned as vigorously as on the day of the disaster.
2. The hydrogen burned quickly, safely, above the occupants. When the escaping hydrogen was ignited by the burning skin of the airship, it burned far above the airship, and was completely consumed within 60 seconds of the ignition. During this period of time, the airship descended to the ground from the 150-foot docking tower.
3. Almost all deaths were caused by jumping or falling from the airship. Of the 35 deaths from the disaster, 33 were caused by jumping or falling. Only two deaths were caused by burning, and it is likely that those two were from proximity to the burning skin of the airship, or from the stores of diesel fuel that were ignited by the covering. Whereas the hydrogen burned within one minute of ignition, the diesel fires burned for up to ten hours after the ignition.
4. The Hindenburg would have burned if it had been filled with inert helium gas. Even if the Hindenburg had not been lifted by hydrogen, the ignition of the covering would still have happened, and would then have set ablaze the diesel stores, resulting in the same disaster.
5. The main cause of the disaster was pilot error. The only way to prevent the disaster would have been if the pilot had chosen to land in better conditions elsewhere, which was very feasible, considering he had had enough fuel remaining to reach all the way to California.
The Nature of Hydrogen:
Hydrogen is less flammable than gasoline. The self-ignition temperature of hydrogen is 550 degrees Celsius. Gasoline varies from 228-501 degrees Celsius, depending on the grade. When the Hindenburg burned, it took some time before the hydrogen bags were ignited.
Hydrogen disperses quickly. Being the lightest element (fifteen times lighter than air), hydrogen rises and spreads out quickly in the atmosphere. So when a leak occurs, the hydrogen gas quickly becomes so sparse that it cannot burn. Even when ignited, hydrogen burns upward, and is quickly consumed, as shown in the Hindenburg picture. By contrast, materials such as gasoline and diesel vapors, as well as natural gas are heavier than air, and will not disperse, remaining a flammable threat for much longer.
Hydrogen is non-toxic. Hydrogen is a non-toxic, naturally-occurring element in the atmosphere. By comparison, all petroleum fuels are asphyxiants, and are poisonous to humans.
Hydrogen combustion produces only water. When pure hydrogen is burned in pure oxygen, only pure water is produced. Granted, that’s an ideal scenario, which doesn’t occur outside of laboratories and the space shuttle. In any case, when a hydrogen engine burns, it actually cleans the ambient air, by completing combustion of the unburned hydrocarbons that surround us. Compared with the toxic compounds (carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, and hydrogen sulfide) produced by petroleum fuels, the products of hydrogen burning are much safer.
Hydrogen can be stored safely. Tanks currently in use for storage of compressed hydrogen (similar to compressed natural gas tanks) have survived intact through testing by various means, including being shot with six rounds from a .357 magnum, detonating a stick of dynamite next to them, and subjecting them to fire at 1500 degrees F. Clearly, a typical gasoline tank wouldn’t survive a single one of these tests.
What Have We Learned?
No fuel we currently use or have yet to develop will be totally without hazards, through all the processes of production, transportation, and consumption, just as no kitchen knife can be used without risk to the chef. Hydrogen has long been considered close to ideal as a fuel due to its abundance, non-toxic characteristics, and international availability. We must recognize that each of us has learned to use knives safely, and do so daily. As long as we use wisdom in our methods of production, storage, and use of hydrogen, we’ll enjoy the same safety we have had with petroleum fuels, with the additional benefit of fewer health hazards when leaks do occur.
Sources
The following sources were used for this article:
Research by Addison Bain, NASA Investigator into the Hindenburg disaster.
McAlister, Roy. The Philosopher Mechanic.
Cox, Jack. "Will Hydrogen Bomb?" The Denver Post. April 5, 2000. "
»www.hydrogennow.org/Facts/Safety-1.htm
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nekote
join:2000-12-16
Hopkinton, MA
| Nice piece on the Hindenburg
Nice job on the Hindenburg - jogged my memory of the investigations that found it was the flamable skin that was mostly to blame.
Best point IMHO - same thing woulda' happened, even if it were somehow using inert helium.
As to hydrogen, however, I can't see storing it in its gaseous form or creating a pure hydrogen gas infrastructure as a likely winner. Rather, storing hydrogen in something much more energy dense, and familiar, like methanol, ethanol, gasoline or some such familiar hydrocarbon.
U of Minn. came up with an inexpensive catalyst that auto-reforms ethanol to hydrogen, rather than needing a steam reformer 100 times bigger. One of many:
»news.minnesota.publicradio.org/f···ydrogen/
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Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all other forms of government. - Winston Churchill |
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rtcpenguin
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Fairfax, VA | reply to skelet0r
Re: look out below
We already went over this idea. It won't work because blimps will litter our city's skys like a horrible, horrible dream. |
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rtcpenguin
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Fairfax, VA
·Cox HSI
| reply to BodyBumper
You may actually have some valid points there...blimps aren't exactly the most "air-worthy" vessels(?). Wouldn't 13 miles up be near the jet stream? I don't think blimps handle turbulence well.
Also, what happens when one of these things has to land to refuel? They'd have to have a back-up blimp (lol) ready to go.
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Will you still remember, There behind the skies, Walking on the embers, Standing in their light -FF |
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nekote
join:2000-12-16
Hopkinton, MA
| reply to rtcpenguin
1 every 10 miles, at 65,000 feet?
"litter our city's skys" ???
A full coverage grid of "Stratellites" would be 1 blimp spot per 10 or 20 miles, depending on overlap.
At 65,000 feet.
You could see it with a telescope or binoculars, if you knew where to look, that is.
Maybe catch a glint of light off it, every now and again.
Otherwise the darn thing will be virtually invisible and very difficult to spot.
Probably going to need a strobe beacon to be "seen".
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Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all other forms of government. - Winston Churchill |
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rtcpenguin
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Fairfax, VA | I think you missed the sarcasm. The hyperbole was a dead giveaway. |
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vd853
join:2004-12-29
Brooklyn, NY | reply to skelet0r
Re: look out below
I'm will to welcome anything that will boost my speed, even if that means a fireball hovering over my roof. |
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nekote
join:2000-12-16
Hopkinton, MA | reply to rtcpenguin
Re: 1 every 10 miles, at 65,000 feet?
Yes, absolutely missed the sarcastic hyperbole. 
In any case, thanks for making me put on my thinking cap. |
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osme
Premium
join:2001-09-07
Hamilton, ON | reply to BonezX
Re: look out below
Sorry, Helium cannot and will not burn. They stopped filling blimps with Hydrogen long ago. |
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